Free will and God's will

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Adstar

Senior Member
#41
Jul 24, 2016
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#41
Pastors are not infallible..

If a person has the ability to decide on what they are going to think, then they have free will..

Being born into a faulty sin body means we shall all sin..

But we have the free will ability to either decide that our sin is bad and to be resisted or we can decide that our sin is good and to be perused with enthusiasm..

Same goes with the Gospel message.. We have the free will to love it or hate it.. We can look upon it as wonderful or we can look upon it as foolishness or even evil..

Our reaction our ability to decide how to respond to the word of God and to the conviction of the Holy Spirit is our free will..
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#42
Nov 12, 2015
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#42
And furthermore, if my will were free, why would I do the thing I desperately don't want to do and not do the thing I want to do. It is sin IN me, because I agree with the good but still don't do it. And even when I do it outwardly for approval by men, inside I am hiding that I don't do it in my heart.
 
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Adstar

Senior Member
#43
Jul 24, 2016
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#43
Romans 7: KJV
{18} For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not."

So people can have free will about doing or resisting things irrespective of their ability to actually perform or resist those things..
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#44
Nov 12, 2015
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#44
Adstar said:
I can only go on what i read.. I respond to what i read.. So i think it is gross for you to accuse me of being a gross brother... You want to be the judge of my intentions ? So be it.. I will give this over to God..
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I was not judging your intentions. I was judging these words from your own mouth: you do not like scripture. You are seeking answers outside of scripture. That is sad indeed. What does that make you in relation to God?

And as if that was not gross enough, you dismiss him (because you have already made your judgement on him), by saying, never mind, don't answer.

Then if someone speaks with you about your words and manner toward your brother, you accuse them of judging your intentions, which is the thing you did.

It only gets worse when you can't admit your fault or wrong behavior. Apologizing is the best course. Obfuscation never ends well.

Why would a request to give an explanation of the scripture you use be seeking for answers outside of scripture.
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#45
Dec 28, 2016
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#45
Adstar said:
Same goes with the Gospel message.. We have the free will to love it or hate it.. We can look upon it as wonderful or we can look upon it as foolishness or even evil..
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Not even remotely biblical.

All outside Christ are hostile toward God, and at enmity with him and his Gospel, note Romans 8:7-8. No one chooses themselves out of this state by free willing it to be so; John 1:13, 3:6; 1 Peter 1:23; Romans 9:11-16; James 1:18.

Only if God does a work in the persons heart will the person be saved...the flesh profits exactly nothing; John 6:63. You say it does if the person free wills to do so, contrary to the testimony of Scripture. Made up false gospel message which glorifies man, not God.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#46
Nov 12, 2015
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#46
Adstar said:
Romans 7: KJV
{18} For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not."

So people can have free will about doing or resisting things irrespective of their ability to actually perform or resist those things..
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Ah, that's delusion, brother!
Here's an example.
If I have anger in my heart at you, I have already murdered you, even if I don't kill your body.

Are you so free in your will that you never get angry?

I know your next move move before you make it. Make it and then we'll talk about it.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#47
Nov 12, 2015
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#47
preacher4truth said:
Not even remotely biblical.

All outside Christ are hostile toward God, and at enmity with him and his Gospel, note Romans 8:7-8. No one chooses themselves out of this state by free willing it to be so; John 1:13, 3:6; 1 Peter 1:23; Romans 9:11-16; James 1:18.

Only if God does a work in the persons heart will the person be saved...the flesh profits exactly nothing; John 6:63. You say it does if the person free wills to do so, contrary to the testimony of Scripture. Made up false gospel message which glorifies man, not God.
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Sometimes I agree with you (almost always) but I cannot hit like because I have issue with the WAY you say it. Happily, I can like this post. :)
I would like it 3 times if the button would let me.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#48
#48
Stunnedbygrace said:
Ah, that's delusion, brother!
Here's an example.
If I have anger in my heart at you, I have already murdered you, even if I don't kill your body.

Are you so free in your will that you never get angry?

I know your next move move before you make it. Make it and then we'll talk about it.
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So when I am presented with a situation, I am not free to chose to get angry, or not get angry?
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#49
Jul 24, 2016
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#49
We have the ability to choose life or death..

Deuteronomy 30: KJV
19 "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:"


Joshua 24: KJV
14"¶ Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD. {15} And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

Again it is people who are called upon to choose whom they will serve..
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#50
Dec 28, 2016
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#50
Adstar said:
We have the ability to choose life or death..

Deuteronomy 30: KJV
19 "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:"


Joshua 24: KJV
14"¶ Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD. {15} And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

Again it is people who are called upon to choose whom they will serve..
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None of those passages have one thing to do with Gospel salvation. That and you're simply pitting Scripture against Scripture. Very poor hermeneutic.
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
#51
Dec 28, 2016
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#51
Stunnedbygrace said:
Sometimes I agree with you (almost always) but I cannot hit like because I have issue with the WAY you say it. Happily, I can like this post. :)
I would like it 3 times if the button would let me.
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He’s a straight shooter. He tells it like it is. I actually like the way he does this. Ppl on here are adults. They need to take rebuke like an adult when they’re wrong. I include myself in this, too.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#52
Nov 12, 2015
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#52
eternally-gratefull said:
So when I am presented with a situation, I am not free to chose to get angry, or not get angry?
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Is to not get angry only on the outside for other men to see? Do you often find yourself saying to someone that you are not angry when inside you really did get angry?

Also, is to not get angry in your heart ( to not murder) a good thing? Yes, its good. Does any good thing you have come from you, or is it a gift of the Spirit working in you?
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
#53
Dec 28, 2016
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#53
preacher4truth said:
None of those passages have one thing to do with Gospel salvation. That and you're simply pitting Scripture against Scripture. Very poor hermeneutic.
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Who were were those passages written to? God’s covenant ppl. Not the Hivites, Hittites, Jebusites, Assyrians, Egyptians, Philistines, &c.

Context means squat to some ppl. Eisegesis, not exegesis, drives ppl’s theology today.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#54
#54
Stunnedbygrace said:
Is to not get angry only on the outside for other men to see? Do you often find yourself saying to someone that you are not angry when inside you really did get angry?

Also, is to not get angry in your heart ( to not murder) a good thing? Yes, its good. Does any good thing you have come from you, or is it a gift of the Spirit working in you?
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I think you misunderstood me sis, again, DO I not have to chose to get angry or not? Do I not have a will that says I will follow God here (seek after things of the spirit, Love the person who has wronged me in my view), and not my flesh.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#55
Nov 12, 2015
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#55
SovereignGrace said:
He’s a straight shooter. He tells it like it is. I actually like the way he does this. Ppl on here are adults. They need to take rebuke like an adult when they’re wrong. I include myself in this, too.
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Well, I most often err in this respect by adding a little piece of the leaven of arrogance and superiority, thereby undoing the good I want to do for someone and causing what could could be good to be instead harshly clanging noise by muddying it with my own feet.
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
#56
Dec 28, 2016
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#56
Stunnedbygrace said:
Well, I most often err in this respect by adding a little piece of the leaven of arrogance and superiority, thereby undoing the good I want to do for someone and causing what could could be good to be instead harshly clanging noise by muddying it with my own feet.
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Trust me when I say he’s not arrogant. We have conversed over the phone the last 4 years, and he’s not arrogant at all.
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#57
Jul 24, 2016
7,426
3,478
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#57
Stunnedbygrace said:
Ah, that's delusion, brother!
Here's an example.
If I have anger in my heart at you, I have already murdered you, even if I don't kill your body.

Are you so free in your will that you never get angry?

I know your next move move before you make it. Make it and then we'll talk about it.
Click to expand...
Again i am free to believe my Anger is good or it is Evil..

We have the Free will to embrace or reject the Way of salvation too.. Yes the Holy Spirit works on people but we have the ability to accept the conviction of the Holy Spirit ot resist the work of the Holy Spirit..

Acts 7: KJV
51 "¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye."

This accusation Stephen made against the High Priests could not have been delivered if they had not been able to resist the Holy Spirit of God... And if they resisted the Holy Spirit then they had free will to do so..
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#58
Nov 12, 2015
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#58
eternally-gratefull said:
I think you misunderstood me sis, again, DO I not have to chose to get angry or not? Do I not have a will that says I will follow God here (seek after things of the spirit, Love the person who has wronged me in my view), and not my flesh.
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Even our own human courts make a distinction between murder done in the heat of sudden anger and passion versus thought and planned murder.

If even these courts see that men can be overwhelmed by anger and give more leniency for murder the man could not control, can we ignore the fact or say that we ourselves are not those very men?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#59
#59
Stunnedbygrace said:
Even our own human courts make a distinction between murder done in the heat of sudden anger and passion versus thought and planned murder.

If even these courts see that men can be overwhelmed by anger and give more leniency for murder the man could not control, can we ignore the fact or say that we ourselves are not those very men?
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ok sis, I will be honest here, please do not take me wrong.

I have no idea how this has anything to do with what I asked. I never mentioned what type of murder or anger it may be, I asked if I had a will to chose to follow God and not sin, or follow my flesh and sin (ie, the anger I am talking about is the anger that would be classified as sin, not the type of Anger Jesus had when he turned over the tables in the temple court).

 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
#60
Dec 28, 2016
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#60
Stunnedbygrace said:
And furthermore, if my will were free, why would I do the thing I desperately don't want to do and not do the thing I want to do. It is sin IN me, because I agree with the good but still don't do it. And even when I do it outwardly for approval by men, inside I am hiding that I don't do it in my heart.
Click to expand...
Sissy, watch this thread closely. Free will is their god. They mention it more than they do God and the Christ. How many of their posts do they mention their free will with not one mention of Them?
 
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