Genesis 1 and 2 - Taken Literally or Figuratively?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#61
But the original Hebrew says that a yom (day) was a period of light. It is modern Americans who try to read into it modern concepts.

Tell me, EG. Are you an expert in Hebrew and Greek?
See my last comment.

Some people do not think, and just want their belief system to be right no matter how it sounds in relation to reality.


Even if the day was 30 hours in the very beginning, it does not matter, and what we said is still correct. (although I would have to investigate what that would do with gravity) Because you have gravitational issues as well as other major issues of scientific things to consider. if you get to far away from a 24 hour day. Period.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#62
Forty days and forty nights is about waiting on God, and seeing that he will provide in HIS TIMING.

Kefa

That is not the question. The question was how long was each DAY in forty days and forty nights? Jesus gives us the answer.

TWELVE ROMAN HOURSs.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#63
See my last comment.

Some people do not think, and just want their belief system to be right no matter how it sounds in relation to reality.


Even if the day was 30 hours in the very beginning, it does not matter, and what we said is still correct. (although I would have to investigate what that would do with gravity) Because you have gravitational issues as well as other major issues of scientific things to consider. if you get to far away from a 24 hour day. Period.


ok lol so you are not an expert in Hebrew and Greek. Then listen to those who ARE. earth and gravity have nothing to do with God's days They were created on day 4.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#64
There was no earth on yom 1. The sun did not determine days (light periods) until yom 4. Light and darkness, days and nights, as spoken of in Genesis were dictated solely by God, not by the earth turning. But you are so blind that you cannot see,

How does Genesis 1 define days? As a period of light . That is the FACT
you were there and you know??

You just lost any reasonable means of arguing

Yes there was no earth as we know it on day one, It was void and without form.

The mere fact that God uses the term made to appear and not created out of nothing when he spoke of making the stars and our sun, Does not support your theory that the sun was not there the first day. It just did not shine its light on the surface of the earth for whatever reason.

then again, we were not there, so we can only speculate why. Either way, your arguments are based on false pretenses and easily refuted, so that is not good for your case.

Next..
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#65
ok lol so you are not an expert in Hebrew and Greek. Then listen to those who ARE. earth and gravity have nothing to do with God's days They were created on day 4.

lol.. So your not an expert in science or hebrew..

They had to be created before life was created, and all that God created on days 2 and 3 would not be possible without gravity.

Stop thinking so highly of yourself man, Think logically, and just take God at his word.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#66
you were there and you know??

You just lost any reasonable means of arguing

Yes there was no earth as we know it on day one, It was void and without form.

The mere fact that God uses the term made to appear and not created out of nothing when he spoke of making the stars and our sun, Does not support your theory that the sun was not there the first day. It just did not shine its light on the surface of the earth for whatever reason.

then again, we were not there, so we can only speculate why. Either way, your arguments are based on false pretenses and easily refuted, so that is not good for your case.

Next..
Poor old Moses. He got it wrong again. First the higher critics. Now the 24 hour day dogmatists.

MOSES YOU WERE WRONG!!! GOD DID NOT CALL THE LIGHT DAY. EVEN THOUGH YOU SAY HE DID. Its time you changed the text in order to agree with the dogmatists.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#67
you were there and you know??

You just lost any reasonable means of arguing

Yes there was no earth as we know it on day one, It was void and without form.

The mere fact that God uses the term made to appear and not created out of nothing when he spoke of making the stars and our sun, Does not support your theory that the sun was not there the first day. It just did not shine its light on the surface of the earth for whatever reason.

then again, we were not there, so we can only speculate why. Either way, your arguments are based on false pretenses and easily refuted, so that is not good for your case.

Next..
It does not say 'made to appear'. It says 'made, fashioned, formed (asah).' But then who is worried about the text when the dogmatist are about?
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#68

lol.. So your not an expert in science or hebrew..

They had to be created before life was created, and all that God created on days 2 and 3 would not be possible without gravity.

Stop thinking so highly of yourself man, Think logically, and just take God at his word.
you are such a hypocrite. you say take God at His word but that is exactly what you fail to do. GOD CALLED THE LIGHT 'DAY'. Darkness was not included in that 'day'. Be honest man. And why were yoms 2 & 3 not possible without gravity? Don't you think God is powerful enough to have made them without gravity. So you doubt the power of God. The sun and moon were made on yom 4. So if there was gravity previously it was provided by GOD. But of course YOUR God can't do such things.

And yes I am an expert in Hebrew having been familiar with the language for fifty years..

I take God at His word. You twist His word to suit yourself.

And as for science. Any reputable science disagrees with YOU LOL
 
T

tanach

Guest
#69
Genesis Day 1 -- LIGHT/DARKNESS Day 4 -- SUN/MOON

Day 2 -- HEAVEN Day 5 --
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#70

I used to accept the gap theory. However, after much study I have changed my view. and no longer believe in that view.

I take Gen 1:1 - 2 to means what it says, In the begining, God created the heavens and the earth, In the origional state of creation, the earth was void and without form. for the next 6 days, God formed the earth to the state it was in on Day 7, when he rested. but all of these happened in 6 days,'

We can look at it like this, God put all the pieces together in the very begining, all the parts where there already in that original state. So when the word bara is not used, it is not (in my view) showing an origional state following some gap. but a part of the creation puzzle which was there on day 1, which was being put together and formed into a cohesive universe which was created to support live.
I certainly don't believe that the gap theory is in any way necessary for a literal interpretation.

My point is that the Hebrew text not only allows for it; but, IMO, seems to favor it, from a strictly lexical perspective.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#71
Poor old Moses. He got it wrong again. First the higher critics. Now the 24 hour day dogmatists.

MOSES YOU WERE WRONG!!! GOD DID NOT CALL THE LIGHT DAY. EVEN THOUGH YOU SAY HE DID. Its time you changed the text in order to agree with the dogmatists.
No pride here.

Thanks. I know who not to listen to you, Even if you were right, your arrogance and sarcasm just snuffed out any possible "light" you could share "pun intended"

 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#72
It does not say 'made to appear'. It says 'made, fashioned, formed (asah).' But then who is worried about the text when the dogmatist are about?

Same difference. And still proves you wrong. For it is not the other word. Which means made out of nothing.

See my last post, it still applies.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#73
you are such a hypocrite. you say take God at His word but that is exactly what you fail to do. GOD CALLED THE LIGHT 'DAY'. Darkness was not included in that 'day'. Be honest man. And why were yoms 2 & 3 not possible without gravity? Don't you think God is powerful enough to have made them without gravity. So you doubt the power of God. The sun and moon were made on yom 4. So if there was gravity previously it was provided by GOD. But of course YOUR God can't do such things.

And yes I am an expert in Hebrew having been familiar with the language for fifty years..

I take God at His word. You twist His word to suit yourself.

And as for science. Any reputable science disagrees with YOU LOL
Dude, Your arrogance is nauseating.

Your light argument holds no value, Are you saying there was no night at all back then?

I have known people who were proficient in greek and hebrew (years of study) which still did not know what they were talking about. Because they still had their preconceived ideas of how things were.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#74
I certainly don't believe that the gap theory is in any way necessary for a literal interpretation.

My point is that the Hebrew text not only allows for it; but, IMO, seems to favor it, from a strictly lexical perspective.
I used to believe it also. I was just stating, after alot of study, I no longer agree with it..

it just does not make any sense, and to me, far to many holes left which are not answered.

Unlike Valiant here, I am not going to call anyone stupid or unlearned. We were not there. So we do not know. We will all know some day when we ask God and who knows. Maybe god will even show us.. We can comprehend it then.

 
Sep 25, 2015
80
1
0
#75
The book of Genesis begins with "In the beginning" whereby the universe is being created at the very beginning, out of nothing. From the an empty space and void to something. How marvelous is God's creation, eh? Then, God began to put things in from Day 1 till Day 6, He created the animals and mankind. Day 7, He rested.

Do you think we can take each description from Day 1 to Day 7 literally or figuratively? Or, they are merely symbol of seven days in a faith statement, implying progressive creativity and careful order? Or, in fact God created all these in a day and for us to grasp it, it's separated into 6 days of creation?

What do you think?
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. - 2 Peter 3:8

Since much of scripture needs to be interpreted on a symbolic level in order to understand it, there is a possibility that creation was a process over 7000 years.

OR... It could be literal and creation took place in 7 literal days.

Outside of revelation from God Himself, there is really no way for us to know whether creation took place over a literal 7 days or 7000 years... or even all in one day (I personally do not believe the 1 day theory). My take on it is that it really doesn't matter. It does not affect what's important in the light of eternity, but it's interesting to speculate over.
:eek:
blessings!

 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#76
you are such a hypocrite. you say take God at His word but that is exactly what you fail to do. GOD CALLED THE LIGHT 'DAY'. Darkness was not included in that 'day'. Be honest man. And why were yoms 2 & 3 not possible without gravity? Don't you think God is powerful enough to have made them without gravity. So you doubt the power of God. The sun and moon were made on yom 4. So if there was gravity previously it was provided by GOD. But of course YOUR God can't do such things.

And yes I am an expert in Hebrew having been familiar with the language for fifty years..

I take God at His word. You twist His word to suit yourself.

And as for science. Any reputable science disagrees with YOU LOL
וַיִּקְרָ֨א אֱלֹהִ֤ם לָאוֺר֨ י֔וֺם וְלַחֹ֖שֶׁךְ קָרָא לָ֑יְלָה וַֽיְהִי־ עֶ֥רֱב וַֽיְהִי־ בֹ֖קֶר יוֺ֥ם אֶחָֽד׃

and called וַיִּקְרָ֨א God אֱלֹהִ֤ם [to] light לָאוֺר֨ day י֔וֺם and [to] darkness וְלַחֹ֖שֶׁךְ (he) called קָרָא night לָ֑יְלָה and became וַֽיְהִי־ evening עֶ֥רֱב and becameוַֽיְהִי־ morning בֹ֖קֶר day יוֺ֥ם one אֶחָֽד .:

It becomes evident that in Hebrew, as in English; both daylight, and the 24 hour cycle of light and darkness are called day.
 
Sep 16, 2014
1,666
100
48
#77
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. - 2 Peter 3:8

Since much of scripture needs to be interpreted on a symbolic level in order to understand it, there is a possibility that creation was a process over 7000 years.

OR... It could be literal and creation took place in 7 literal days.

Outside of revelation from God Himself, there is really no way for us to know whether creation took place over a literal 7 days or 7000 years... or even all in one day (I personally do not believe the 1 day theory). My take on it is that it really doesn't matter. It does not affect what's important in the light of eternity, but it's interesting to speculate over.
:eek:
blessings!
God's take on it is the honest truth. He is holy and not a liar. The only record God has given to man is what is written. It is no lie, else God lies, and is not holy. By faith some of us believe God is, and God is holy, and God tells the truth...always. Otherwise he, having all capacity to present truth, deceived man. He did not, would not. There is no logical reason for such deception.

Note that the right man in history with enough natural education to handle unseen facts, among the most literate people on the planet for thousands of years, was used to record that truth. He was educated in the finest schools on earth, steeped in science and mathematics, his peers qualified to build pyramids for kings. His name was Moses, raised in the Pharaoh's household, raised up to rule. The man was no mad fool, unlike modern fools who should know better than pervert truth to teach it might have taken 7,000 years to complete what God said was a week.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#78
Letting the END JUSTIFY THE MEANS. What a terrible way of understanding the Word of God! The literal approach has caused a lot of headache, confusion and contention. And God is not the Author of confusion.

These chapters are written for ALL the peoples of the world in thousands of different languages and yet we have to resort to the original Hebrew to continue arguing over their meaning. I feel sorry for the hundreds of millions of Christians who do not have access to all of the study tools of the scholars and have to stick to a non-defensible literal position (not that the ones who have the tools can defend it any better as it is so obvious from this thread and many others like it.)

Stop and think! Why would God make the opening pages of His Book so contentious, hard to understand and divisive?! Couldn't there possibly exist another interpretation that protects the Gospel also?
That's the thing, it's humans who make the opening pages of God's book so contentious, so difficult to understand and so divisive. And you. You love to make everything a parable and that's just ridiculous and non-biblical. The historical-grammatical approach isn't confusing at all. It's the most straight-forward reading of the Bible ever. All you need to do is read the Bible plainly and then, where context requires it, read those bits figuratively. There are no special skills required. Just an understanding that the Bible is made of different genres and that while God's Word is written FOR all people, not every part of it is written TO all people eg. the Old Covenant doesn't apply since Jesus fulfilled the Law. But you need to understand that early Genesis isn't figurative, it's literal.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#79
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. - 2 Peter 3:8

Since much of scripture needs to be interpreted on a symbolic level in order to understand it, there is a possibility that creation was a process over 7000 years.

OR... It could be literal and creation took place in 7 literal days.

Outside of revelation from God Himself, there is really no way for us to know whether creation took place over a literal 7 days or 7000 years... or even all in one day (I personally do not believe the 1 day theory). My take on it is that it really doesn't matter. It does not affect what's important in the light of eternity, but it's interesting to speculate over.
:eek:
blessings!

Stop using this verse. It's so out of context it's laughable. First of all, that is figurative language eg. XYZ is like X, whereas early Genesis is historical narrative - literal. Most of the time this is easy to work out of your own. Secondly, that verse has to do with having hope in Christ's return. It has absolutely nothing to do with Creation Week. Read the verses around it. Context, context, context.
 
Sep 16, 2014
1,666
100
48
#80
I used to believe it also. I was just stating, after alot of study, I no longer agree with it..

it just does not make any sense, and to me, far to many holes left which are not answered.

Unlike Valiant here, I am not going to call anyone stupid or unlearned. We were not there. So we do not know. We will all know some day when we ask God and who knows. Maybe god will even show us.. We can comprehend it then.

After many searches below the Cambrian Period, where most fossils lie in rocks associated with that very oldest starta beasring signs of life, there is yet no significant sign of life below it (pre-Cambrian). What is called an "explosion of evolution" among secular scientists resulting in a huge variety of life, is simply the sedimentary record of the destruction of life during the flood of Noah's time. All the pseudo-scientific dating methods are interpreted to support old ages, even to the desperation of choosing samples to date, and ignoring new facts that put the geologic dating of the Cambrian, based mostly on fossil record, in serious question.

If there was a "Pre-Adamite" world that existed before Genesis 1:2, the earth sealed off by water and everything below it subjected to better preservation than the rocks above the Cambrian, then were are the signs of that life in the rocks? Had there been such an existence, followed by an earth-wide flood, then there is no logical explanation for the absence of an older "explosion of evolution" before Gen 1:2. Take "evolution" out of that, replace that with "explosion of life". There still is no evidence of earlier life.

The only "explosion" of life came according to the record of Genesis.

It's very important for people wanting to comprehend the Bible and redemption from sin to understand that Genesis is to be taken literally, both historically and scientifically. All through scriptures salvation is linked back to Genesis to some degree. Having men running around before Genesis 1:2 created a world of confusion for the simple cause of secular peace making in an effort to make Christians appear more reasonable to the fledgling Darwinists. That poor Gap Theory likely has resulted in uncounted souls missing Heaven that began as beleivers, people not taking further stock in the Bible because the Gap Theory shredded Genesis in the minds of many youths being taught science by secular teachers.

Look to the most modern of "Creation Science" scientists whose numbers are growing, among whom are imminent scholars that mostly began careers as evolutionists. The facts are powerful, eroding the religion of evolution. Flood geology is the best explanation for what scientists actually observe. Satan no doubt has worked hard to keep mankind in the dark, even to the need to keep men blinded to believe a day in creation week was a thousand years.

Now comes some dinosaur fossils with fossil remains of animals that evolved millions of years after they became extinct, in their digestive tracts. At the rate of similar discoveries turning evolution on its head, it is probably the whole world will absolutely know the lies turned them off the path, learned after the coming rapture, and too late to help them.

God wants people to comprehend the truth now, not later.