Give us these kind of men

[Depleted]

The video doesn't build a strong case.

I don't worship teachers but believe everything should be tested against what the Bible says, so don't feel a driving desire to expose false teachers.

I would rather focus on learning and clearly speaking the truths God reveals.

The prosperity gospel is wrong and people who preach it are either deceived or seeking to fleece the sheep. I haven't taken the time to see if Joel is 1. Teaching these false gospel or 2. Is a deceived sheep or wolf.

I merely commented on the video and found it lacking and the accusations not to be supported by the "evidence" given in the 5 minute video.

And everyone can see the name calling and over reaction, those statements got...

So, fleecing sheep is wrong but you don't want to find out who the sheep fleecers are, nor should anyone else? Why is it wrong? I mean there are quite a few levels of wrongness. Is it only as wrong as eating dessert before dinner? Worse than that? Better than that? And how wrong does wrong have to be before you think it's time to speak up? Or how wrong does it have to be before you think anyone should speak up?

 

[Depleted]

Here's the thing, P4T..... These folks may not all be Osteenites, but they all have one thing in common.

OSAS, Hyp******e, & WOF all do this same one thing..... they are all inclusive of other false doctrines.

They all say "we just differ in beliefs, but we're all christians".

Birds of a feather flock together, & a heretic will always take up for another heretic.

But if they find someone who believes in living by faith, they are calling them every name under the sun, & they're of the devil.

Such inclusion is only one step away from total Universalism. That's where they're all headed.

It's okay, Stephen. You are free to rant about that word all you want and actually say it. You haven't been banned yet.

 

[sevenseas]

It's funny, but hence a sock puppet is a false internet identity created to promote an agenda, this site has a lot of false sock puppets (other people acting like sock puppets) lol.

I'm glad you understood

some people here are like millipedes

alotta socks going on

people like a post cause their friend made it or it trashes someone the don't like

that was my point we all do that to some extent

 

[Muzungu256]

Grace777x70 you have good posts!!!!! yes lets stop arguing over doctrines and start embracing each other as people!!!! help the people, love them with unconditional love that casts out all fear, only way to be free!!!!
its my testimony......... when love entered fear was gone....... no more hatred or fear...... you start to see people differently even wicked people are loved by God and you should too!!!!!!! we dont know what paths people have been through and what they had it like growing up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! judge ye not!

love never fails!!!!!!!!

 

[Depleted]

Dcon can you site your sources where they made those two statements?

I'm confused. You said you watched the video. The first statement was on that video. And, granted, that's Lawson quoting Osteen but you can find the actually video if you simply google "Osteen on Larry King."

Two things to chuckle over though:
1. Good luck finding a video without even more annoying rants to go along with it. (Hinn commenting on it was too much for me.)
2. Wait until you find out how old this "news story" is. lol

 

[dcontroversal]

It's okay, Stephen. You are free to rant about that word all you want and actually say it. You haven't been banned yet.

I know...another coined phrase...like "workers for" or "cake takers"

I will take GRACE any day over my own works...............In the grace you are.....<---the result of salvation based upon faith, and the gift of GOD......

 

[Depleted]

Any proof that he ever had the ball?

But you just got finished saying the ball doesn't matter.

 

[preacher4truth]

It's funny, in fact it is HILARIOUS that someone in this thread slammed Lawson for saying Victoria is a better preacher than Joel. What a bad bad bad person that Lawson guy is. LOL!!!!

Uh????? She PREACHES at that heretical church too, so it wasn't a slam, it's probably a fact, so, know what you're talking about next time, maybe? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then the icing on the cake? Defending Osteen because it is wrong to the false teachers in this thread to expose false teachers (LOL!) so they show us they really mean it by slamming Steve Lawson who preaches a SOLID Gospel.

LOL!!!!!!!!!

Anyhow, carry on in your ignorance and in the works of the flesh. Bear your "fruit".

 

[Depleted]

Oh I know.....I have seen him speak out of both sides of his mouth with a 100 grand smile the whole time........

That smile is $100 grand? Dang! There goes the dream of dentures. lol

[video]https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/00711117-97ce-4a7b-a957-1200905087b4[/video]

(Nuts! Can't do those quicky video thingies.)

 

[sevenseas]

Okay Dcon, whatevzzz

Catch you on another thread sevenseas. You might have listened to more of his sermons than I have, but from what I have heard and read (which is perhaps 3 or 4 sermons) he doesn't jump ship and preach a works salvation gospel, which is what you seem to say Lordship salvation gospel is. I am sure we can discussion that topic more on another thread.

I just checked back to see Dcon response.

Getting tired of being called names so will catch you on another thread.

no, they do not actually preach a works salvation message, but the fine print reads like it

and they will say we are saved by grace

post 96 has a link as well as my thoughts on the insults, name calling and other mind numbing activities by those who know their Bibles better than anyone, or at least want us to think they do

I'm not advocating any particular person to listen to here (if you read my few and scattered posts in this thread you will see that)

it's the nastiness of those who seem to hate Osteen I object to

I don't even care anymore. the nastiness is on them

thanks

 

[Depleted]

Okay Dcon, whatevzzz

Catch you on another thread sevenseas. You might have listened to more of his sermons than I have, but from what I have heard and read (which is perhaps 3 or 4 sermons) he doesn't jump ship and preach a works salvation gospel, which is what you seem to say Lordship salvation gospel is. I am sure we can discussion that topic more on another thread.

I just checked back to see Dcon response.

Getting tired of being called names so will catch you on another thread.

Really? You haven't noticed 7 thinks this is something of a witch hunt too? (For a different reason, but she does think it's something like one.)

And really? 7 called you names? Is "called me names" like "trolls" on here? Use the word/phrase the second someone disagrees with you whether it is true or not?

I really don't like name calling. To the point I backed up Grace after he was called names. But I don't have to back you up because you haven't been called any names by 7, or about anyone else I've been reading. (Granted, got some ignored.)

 

[Depleted]

Actually, not to put your mom down, but she was quoting Thumper's mother in Bambi. Bambi first came out in 1945, so I doubt Disney got it from your mom. I know I certainly got it from Bambi! (Or rather, Thumper's mom!)

It is a good saying, if you are dealing about people in your neighbourhood, friends or family. But when you are dealing with false prophets, heretics who preach to 30,000 people in their church, (apparently the largest church in the US!) and yet they cannot articulate the simple gospel? And yet people go to this person's church, buy their books, watch their videos?? And worse, give him millions of dollars in the hopes that they will receive millions of dollars. Or maybe they just enjoy his "positivity?" Still, this New Age cult of thinking yourself happy, wealthy and wise, in the name of Jesus, is the biggest and worst cult the world has ever seen in many years!

The church is being deceived by these liars! And those people on here, who claim that you can't follow both what the Bible says, and the Holy Spirit. Who sadly have had to make the difficult decision to follow the Holy Spirit, rather than acknowledge what God says in the Word of God, which is obey God's laws, while you walk with the Holy Spirit. Except people, following the Bible and the Holy Spirit is not an either/or proposition! They go hand in hand!

But hey, I would hate to force anyone into such legalism as reading and following the Bible, when they can follow a false prophet like Joel Osteen, or on the other side of the world, Joseph Prince! If someone wants to put themselves out there, in public, on the media, both religious and secular, and call themselves a Christian without acknowledging Jesus is Lord (I read someplace that is not right??) then they have proved themselves a deceiver!

"If you declare with your mouth Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9

If Osteen can't do this on the Larry King Show, then he is no preacher of the Lord!

"32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven.33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Matt 10:32-34

Correction: "If you have nothing good to say, keep your mouth shut," was my grandmother's saying. Since she was roughly Walt Disney's age, (born the same year, anyway), maybe she taught him it.

 

[Depleted]

i'm not Lawson's apologist... but i think you don't understand his views.

i've read two of his books and heard dozens of his sermons, and he teaches God saves.
in a monergistic, supernatural way, God saves. never, ever have i heard him say anything like "we contribute to our salvation".

now, maybe you have, in which case you should feel free to present such evidence.
i do encourage you, though, not to confuse God saving (by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone)
with believers having no responsibilities AFTER God saves us. Lawson does talk about those things, thank God.

also, there's a whole lot of talk about "love", but how loving is it to go on your merry way while someone is on their way to hell and not warn them? is that the love of which God speaks to us??




i find it rather interesting that some folks who posted in this thread that we ought not "judge" Osteen are perfectly okay with the very same thing when it comes to threads about someone like Herbert Armstrong.

Oh, come one now! How many preachers am I supposed to know to keep up with this conversation? (Already had to learn something of Lawson. Now you bring up someone named Armstrong! Yeesh! Yes, I went snooping. Just don't feel like learning about yet another guy. lol)

 

[Depleted]

wsblind has offered some unfounded lies about Steven Lawson and that is a shameful fact. But then defends the heretc Osteen. Eternity will have something​ to say about this action.

Now, as to Lawson? He preaches the Gospel and is solid so he must be attacked by nominal professing believers with little biblical acumen or fortitude.

Meh on the "solid" for Lawson. If mocking someone like it's a comedy skit is "solid," then "solid" has a new definition too.

 

[Depleted]

One of the things we should take into consideration is that in the texts that Paul is talking to those in established leadership within the local church - it is for them to rebuke those that are contrary to the faith of the Lord Jesus Christ. It is the leadership that knows these people personally and deals with them in their own setting - these are the ones that have the right to correct them.

Paul wrote these things to Timothy who was in spiritual authority in the local assembly. This principle remains for the other writers as well.

We in our flesh think anyone of us can publicly attack another believer that we think has a different view then we do because of the scriptures about those in authority dealing with people within their own assembly.

This is not for every Tom, Dick and Sally that have ordained themselves as a self-proclaimed heretic hunter because they view a subject differently then some other people. This then qualifies them in their own minds to openly rebuke those that they differ with even though they do not know the people personally, have no authority in the local church where these people are and have not gone to talk with them in order to get things straight from the horse's mouth.

Not being in a spiritual leadership position in that local assembly and then trying to rebuke those that we do not know personally could be called as the scripture says just "busybodies, a gossiper and a slanderer" - which are all works of the flesh.

Something to consider when we are putting ourselves in a lordship position over those that are not in our authority and then condemning others that may view some things differently or may have a different calling - just as encouraging others to trust in the Lord.

Romans 12:4-8 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For just as we have many members in one body and all the members do not have the same function,

[SUP]5 [/SUP] so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.

[SUP]6 [/SUP] Since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, each of us is to exercise them accordingly: if prophecy, according to the proportion of his faith;

[SUP]7 [/SUP] if service, in his serving; or he who teaches, in his teaching;

[SUP]8 [/SUP] or he who exhorts, in his exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.

What is the process for those caught in something that we think is wrong? Paul tells us in Gal.6:1 - notice the criteria for correcting others - you who are spiritual - go restore such a one in the spirit of meekness. Is this being done? The operative word here for all of us is : "You who are spiritual". This needs to be the first qualification.

Galatians 6:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted.

Some things to consider when we are biting and devouring each other.

Galatians 5:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.

[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.

If it is for them to rebuke, then why was Paul rebuking them?

And, who exactly has authority over Osteen to rebuke him? He is the leader of his church. And I can give you 95 million reasons (in renovations -- US dollars) why no one in his church is rebuking him either.

Do you know why local churches were a thing back in the first century? Because there was no other choice -- no megachurches, no worldwide, no massive believers gathered in one spot, (unless you want to count the ones taken to he Coliseum to be slaughtered). It was local because it had to be local.

Don't make that into a doctrine, especially since it's obvious there is no one who can rebuke Olsteen that he would hear.

 

[Depleted]

You know it gets annoying that just because I refuse to falsely accuse someone, I get told I am trying to appease "both sides of the debate".

What I am trying to do is clearly separate truth from lies.

The TRUTH is the gospel was clearly preached in the Larry King show....wait for it....

By the lady who called in and asked Joel Osteen.

He said he agreed that Jesus was the only way.

So if you took him at his word, then you can't make that accusation.

I don't like him or his wife because they are teachers of the false prosperity gospel, not because of the video posted from the OP that claims he says there are other ways to heaven besides Jesus, because the "proof" isn't there.

My point is check your facts and don't make accusations that don't stick when cross examined.

If you try someone in criminal court, they are assumed innocent until proven guilty.

I find it was that many while witch hunting will assume the opposite.., they are guilty until proven one of the flock.

Personally I see people could be either one...they could be immature Christians (which most folks are, even the Apostles took a while to learn maturity and they physically walked with Jesus. Paul took 3 years of study before preaching in addition to his Pharisee training) or they might be wolves fleecing the sheep.

As I said in my other post, I took the OP AT face value and render my judgement based on the evidence presented in that video.

I found the evidence lacking and stated as much.

Instead of presenting more evidence, I get insults and I am told I am a liar, slander, etc.

Eventually more evidence is presented with a new accusation...Joel not only supports other religions, or doesn't support the gospel on national television (this accusation has been shown to be kind of shaky and based on assumptions, since he nominally agreed with the lady who called in and she presented the gospel clearly)

The second accusation is that he is a false prosperity teacher.

This one has more grounds. I went to Joel Osteen website yesterday and found the quote that shows clearly that Osteen does teach false prosperity doctrine. Thus could be labeled as a false teacher.

Yeah folks can judge me however they want, but I refuse to accept and repeat false accusations and assumptions, in an attempt to appease anyone.

You can chose to repeat misconceptions and lies concerning what happened on the Larry King show and call it discernment, but I prefer to do my own research before I judge another person as a false teacher.

So, wait! You think Osteen is a false teacher but you're angry that everyone else thinks it too? And you think he's guilty, but we shouldn't? (And the man grew up into this family business, so not like he's a brand-new Christian who just doesn't know any better. Even you admit he's not a Christian, so...?)

Really? You're angry at us because you agree he is guilty?

Honestly? As much as I don't know on Lawson and as nothing I know on Armstrong, Osteen I already checked out. He wasn't guilty until proven innocent. He was guilty after proof he IS guilty! Lawson? I'm still in the jury room deciding. Armstrong? I'm taking a pass on that trial altogether. But Osteen? Been there, done that, the verdict was in long ago. It sounds like you're angry because you just learned he's guilty and we already knew.

You're doing a lot of arguing for someone who agrees.

 

[royalscot]

"Oneness" as in they don't believe in the triune God?

YES!!! They are NOT Christians. Is this so hard?

19 If all were a single member, where would the body be?20 As it is, there are many parts, yet one body.1 Corinthians 12

 

[royalscot]

21 The eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of you," nor again the head to the feet, "I have no need of you.1 Corinthians 12:

 

[Locutus]

Some take up being the mouth in the body, some the arse....

 

[Ariel82]

Seriously Lynn

Life got busy, I was going to send you a pm, but since you want you keep it public let me help you out.

7 did not call me names p4t did.

I object to how people debate and how people treat others they view as the "enemy"

Any other questions you can pm me.