Give us these kind of men
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A
Ummm nope, not what i said or believe at all.....
Try it again.
For me the "light stuff" is preaching the gospel.
The "heavy stuff" is changing people's hearts and giving them Faith to believe.
God says pick up your cross and follow me.
My burden is light.
I will give you rest.
God doesn't need "help" saving people anymore than I need "help" making dinner from my 4 year old daughter.
However out of love He asks us to do and learn and be a part of His body.
I was making the point that God doesn't do the light work, he does the heavy lifting.
Whatever it is we do, I consider "light work" even if he asked us to die by lions to amuse a Roman crowd.
Because the real "heavy" work was done by Jesus upon the cross.
As the individual versus doctrine stance, I agree its more important to identify false doctrines and state the true gospel (still waiting for some to do that)
However, identifying people is biblical as well. We Mark them and pray for them. If by God's grace He restores them and show them their false doctrines and they repent, we may in the future welcome them as brethren.
Until that time we treat them like gentiles. Ironically many treat nonbelievers better than they do false prophets.
I wonder why? Both are enemies to the gospel message.
Try it again.
For me the "light stuff" is preaching the gospel.
The "heavy stuff" is changing people's hearts and giving them Faith to believe.
God says pick up your cross and follow me.
My burden is light.
I will give you rest.
God doesn't need "help" saving people anymore than I need "help" making dinner from my 4 year old daughter.
However out of love He asks us to do and learn and be a part of His body.
I was making the point that God doesn't do the light work, he does the heavy lifting.
Whatever it is we do, I consider "light work" even if he asked us to die by lions to amuse a Roman crowd.
Because the real "heavy" work was done by Jesus upon the cross.
As the individual versus doctrine stance, I agree its more important to identify false doctrines and state the true gospel (still waiting for some to do that)
However, identifying people is biblical as well. We Mark them and pray for them. If by God's grace He restores them and show them their false doctrines and they repent, we may in the future welcome them as brethren.
Until that time we treat them like gentiles. Ironically many treat nonbelievers better than they do false prophets.
I wonder why? Both are enemies to the gospel message.
B
New one for me prosperity gospel?
Well let's see how about the people who have in slaved 30 million + people or starve and kill others, the list goes on and on. but wait let's call out Joel osteen and his teaching. Sorry but this world has its priorities backwards.
What would I like to see anything but bashing other people who may or may not always get it right.
should people be praying for other people no matter it being of specifc nature or not?
Well let's see how about the people who have in slaved 30 million + people or starve and kill others, the list goes on and on. but wait let's call out Joel osteen and his teaching. Sorry but this world has its priorities backwards.
What would I like to see anything but bashing other people who may or may not always get it right.
should people be praying for other people no matter it being of specifc nature or not?
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I will post this again for any late comers to the thread.
We really need to be very careful in the things we allow others to say about those in the body of Christ that speak differently then we do.
Some people have a different ministry then others and are encouraging others. They are not pastors and serve a different function in the body of Christ.
Personally I do not listen to Joel Osteen that often but I do know where his messages of encouraging people to trust in the goodness an love of God for them has encouraged others to stop listening to the lies of the enemy and to start having hope in God again.
Some people have been beat up in life for so long that they need encouragement to get back up and start having hope again.
From there - they need to be fed the proper nutrients of growing in the grace and knowledge of Christ.
If we "delight in the Lord" - He will give us His desires in our heart and that dream that He has put in there needs to be pursued. That is the other side of Joel's message of hope in this world that needs to be said.
We don't pursue worldly desires originating from our own flesh - we have His desires birthed in us. All of us need both to have our hope restored by one ministry and then we build on that to discover God's desires in us and we get that from a different ministry and we all need those at different times in our life.
Each ministry has different purposes and functions.
All of us both need to be encouraged when we are beaten down by life and the lies of the enemy to trust in God again - that He will be faithful to us in this life as well as in the one to come. This is the hope that some people preach to others such as Joel Osteen. That is one side of the coin.
The other side that we need "after we get this hope in God back" - is that it is not our own worldly desires that is to be pursued but the dreams of hope that He has birthed in our hearts. There is a vast difference between the two IMO. I believe we all need both at different times in our life.
I also do not agree with everything any minister or denomination says about every subject.
I also believe there are ways to say things better so that things do not get taken out of context or used by the enemy to mis-represent what is really being said.
I am hoping that in 5 years I wouldn't agree with everything I think I know now as the Lord reveals more of His love and grace and true nature to me. I love and believe in "hyper-repenting". We are all growing and biting and devouring each other is not the way to do things in the kingdom.
None of us know things as we ought to know them - Paul said.
Speak forth the light of the Lord Jesus Christ and His light will dispel the darkness that can be in all of our un-renewed minds like midst on a foggy morning.
We really need to be very careful in the things we allow others to say about those in the body of Christ that speak differently then we do.
Some people have a different ministry then others and are encouraging others. They are not pastors and serve a different function in the body of Christ.
Personally I do not listen to Joel Osteen that often but I do know where his messages of encouraging people to trust in the goodness an love of God for them has encouraged others to stop listening to the lies of the enemy and to start having hope in God again.
Some people have been beat up in life for so long that they need encouragement to get back up and start having hope again.
From there - they need to be fed the proper nutrients of growing in the grace and knowledge of Christ.
If we "delight in the Lord" - He will give us His desires in our heart and that dream that He has put in there needs to be pursued. That is the other side of Joel's message of hope in this world that needs to be said.
We don't pursue worldly desires originating from our own flesh - we have His desires birthed in us. All of us need both to have our hope restored by one ministry and then we build on that to discover God's desires in us and we get that from a different ministry and we all need those at different times in our life.
Each ministry has different purposes and functions.
All of us both need to be encouraged when we are beaten down by life and the lies of the enemy to trust in God again - that He will be faithful to us in this life as well as in the one to come. This is the hope that some people preach to others such as Joel Osteen. That is one side of the coin.
The other side that we need "after we get this hope in God back" - is that it is not our own worldly desires that is to be pursued but the dreams of hope that He has birthed in our hearts. There is a vast difference between the two IMO. I believe we all need both at different times in our life.
I also do not agree with everything any minister or denomination says about every subject.
I also believe there are ways to say things better so that things do not get taken out of context or used by the enemy to mis-represent what is really being said.
I am hoping that in 5 years I wouldn't agree with everything I think I know now as the Lord reveals more of His love and grace and true nature to me. I love and believe in "hyper-repenting". We are all growing and biting and devouring each other is not the way to do things in the kingdom.
None of us know things as we ought to know them - Paul said.
Speak forth the light of the Lord Jesus Christ and His light will dispel the darkness that can be in all of our un-renewed minds like midst on a foggy morning.
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My goodness...The Lord does have a great sense of humor...
Whatever we do let's not give people a hope that God loves them and that they can trust Him no matter what lies have been spoken about Him .
Let's not give people any hope who have been beaten down all their life by the things of the world, the flesh , the devil and by hateful church people....
....Let's not encourage them to trust God again. I say - let's encourage them. He can sort out the carnal desires from the desires He puts in their heart.
I'm just going to post a short post. (Is this even possible for me? LOL) Hopefully, Ariel, I will get back to your request as to what is wrong with Osteen later. I have a real life, (just saying!) and yesterday was a bad one. I was a 9/10 pain, not just RA, but fibromyalgia out of control, and back and neck issues that seemed unfixable. (Thanks for those who prayed for me, the pain eased at night, and without medications, God is good!)
My concern with Osteen is twofold.
1. He is a pastor, he has a huge and growing following. A pastor is required by God to preach the Bible correctly! Osteen and others do not!
2. He preaches a false gospel that appeals to the flesh. He refused to preach the gospel on Larry King. He is more interested in making friends and influencing people (Dale Carnegie!) than actually bringing people to a saving relationship with Christ.
When I was in seminary, I met people who had been totally fleeced by Prosperity Preachers. One woman said they gave $50,000 "seed money" and were told they would get $500,000 back. Of course, they got nothing, lost all their retirement savings. She and her husband didn't walk away from God, but they decided they needed to study the Bible, in context, to find out what it really said. But worse, she said, were the huge numbers of people who gave their life savings, got nothing and walked away from God forever. Were they saved in the first place, or just in it for the money? Not my call.
BUT, when people walk away from God, because a false gospel which twists Scripture, with bad hermeneutics and exegetics destroys people's faith and shames the name of Jesus Christ, then no, we do not wait for the Holy Spirit to move on those heretical teachers to show them the truth of the gospel.
Why do we not wait for the Holy Spirit to move on false teachers?? Because these people do not listen to the Holy Spirit! They listen to their own lusts and desires. (Lust is about wanting things! Not just about sexual lust! Could be lust for food, for money, or lust for evil!)
"All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved." Eph. 2:3-5
So these preachers have not walked away from their former life, and they cater to the flesh Those who follow them, are they most interested in catering to the flesh, the craving for money and power, or just being people happy? The point is, God does use people to call people, to Christ, who preach the Word of God, which is the gospel. Without the Holy Spirit, no one would come to Christ. But what about those who claim to belong to Christ, and yet fleece the flock instead with a false gospel?
"Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron." 1 Tim. 4:2
Out of context? Perhaps! Paul was addressing Judiazers and/or ascetics. That was the heresy making the rounds in Ephesus, and Paul addressed it clearly, for Timothy. But, I think it addresses the hardening of the heart that occurs when any teacher goes off the track Biblically, and leads a LARGE congregation into that lie!
If Joel Osteen was shut up in his church, with a few diehard elders and supporters who were not going to listen to anything anyone shows them in the Bible, I would leave this thread immediately!
But he doesn't do that! His ministry spreads, his bad influence continues. People are deceived, they lose their money and walk away from God. Somehow this makes them "happy" as some people have suggested, because JO is so "positive!"??
He is leading the sheep astray, and using social media and any method he can to do that. This is not about some small isolated church in the backwoods of Texas. This is about, preaching a gospel to the whole world that is false!
And he is not the only false teacher doing this. Back in the 1980's a friend got into Kenneth Hagin, and then Kenneth Copeland. She gave me all their books to read. I talked about this with a Catholic friend, who became totally apostate (she had been baptized and committed her life to Christ in my Pentecostal Church!) SHE warned me against these teachers! Does this mean the Word Faith teachers are correct? No, it means even a Catholic could see through the lies!
Then the long story about my RA, the woman and another men condemning me for not being healed. When my woman friend died, I felt sort of justified. But I realize now, she never cared for the Prosperity Gospel. She was already rich, and never used a penny of her own money to spread the gospel I imagine she didn't give that much to the cause, either. She told me God wanted her to go to Malaysia and preach the gospel, and would I support her? I didn't reply, because we were poor, and I knew how much money, investments, homes, etc, she had. To say nothing of bankrupting her husband when she divorced him. And he was also rich! So, after she asked me to contribute to her bringing them Health and Wealth gospel to this foreign country, she died, about 4 or 5 months later. She kept telling me God had healed her, and she was going because God said she was! Am I bitter? No, it was a big lesson on how these evil doctrine enslaved her and killed her.
So the health side of the Health and Wealth gospel kills people, the Wealth side steals their money, leaving them lost and broken!
What did someone say that was good about any of these preachers? Oh, right, it makes people happy! Sigh!
PS, God has blessed my husband totally in our retirement years, and we have not received an inheritance or anything. One day, we were poor, we kept following God with all our hearts, and I went to seminary, which cost a lot of monehy, no lie! My husband went to retire from his job, and there was all this money. Never, did we ask for money, we just kept being faithful, giving to our local church, and to the poor locally and world wide, and suddenly, we were comfortable. What more could anyone ask?
Post on Osteen, or maybe the whole Prosperity part of this evil fake "gospel" that enslaves people and drives them away from God? Hmm, I will consider that!
But right now, again, I do have a life, and just wasted another hour when I could have been doing things in my life, all to rehash the same garbage, which the same individuals keep posting! And yes, Ariel, I am a teacher, and God has called me to refute these lies which amount to little more than propaganda for a heresy!
My concern with Osteen is twofold.
1. He is a pastor, he has a huge and growing following. A pastor is required by God to preach the Bible correctly! Osteen and others do not!
2. He preaches a false gospel that appeals to the flesh. He refused to preach the gospel on Larry King. He is more interested in making friends and influencing people (Dale Carnegie!) than actually bringing people to a saving relationship with Christ.
When I was in seminary, I met people who had been totally fleeced by Prosperity Preachers. One woman said they gave $50,000 "seed money" and were told they would get $500,000 back. Of course, they got nothing, lost all their retirement savings. She and her husband didn't walk away from God, but they decided they needed to study the Bible, in context, to find out what it really said. But worse, she said, were the huge numbers of people who gave their life savings, got nothing and walked away from God forever. Were they saved in the first place, or just in it for the money? Not my call.
BUT, when people walk away from God, because a false gospel which twists Scripture, with bad hermeneutics and exegetics destroys people's faith and shames the name of Jesus Christ, then no, we do not wait for the Holy Spirit to move on those heretical teachers to show them the truth of the gospel.
Why do we not wait for the Holy Spirit to move on false teachers?? Because these people do not listen to the Holy Spirit! They listen to their own lusts and desires. (Lust is about wanting things! Not just about sexual lust! Could be lust for food, for money, or lust for evil!)
"All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved." Eph. 2:3-5
So these preachers have not walked away from their former life, and they cater to the flesh Those who follow them, are they most interested in catering to the flesh, the craving for money and power, or just being people happy? The point is, God does use people to call people, to Christ, who preach the Word of God, which is the gospel. Without the Holy Spirit, no one would come to Christ. But what about those who claim to belong to Christ, and yet fleece the flock instead with a false gospel?
"Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron." 1 Tim. 4:2
Out of context? Perhaps! Paul was addressing Judiazers and/or ascetics. That was the heresy making the rounds in Ephesus, and Paul addressed it clearly, for Timothy. But, I think it addresses the hardening of the heart that occurs when any teacher goes off the track Biblically, and leads a LARGE congregation into that lie!
If Joel Osteen was shut up in his church, with a few diehard elders and supporters who were not going to listen to anything anyone shows them in the Bible, I would leave this thread immediately!
But he doesn't do that! His ministry spreads, his bad influence continues. People are deceived, they lose their money and walk away from God. Somehow this makes them "happy" as some people have suggested, because JO is so "positive!"??
He is leading the sheep astray, and using social media and any method he can to do that. This is not about some small isolated church in the backwoods of Texas. This is about, preaching a gospel to the whole world that is false!
And he is not the only false teacher doing this. Back in the 1980's a friend got into Kenneth Hagin, and then Kenneth Copeland. She gave me all their books to read. I talked about this with a Catholic friend, who became totally apostate (she had been baptized and committed her life to Christ in my Pentecostal Church!) SHE warned me against these teachers! Does this mean the Word Faith teachers are correct? No, it means even a Catholic could see through the lies!
Then the long story about my RA, the woman and another men condemning me for not being healed. When my woman friend died, I felt sort of justified. But I realize now, she never cared for the Prosperity Gospel. She was already rich, and never used a penny of her own money to spread the gospel I imagine she didn't give that much to the cause, either. She told me God wanted her to go to Malaysia and preach the gospel, and would I support her? I didn't reply, because we were poor, and I knew how much money, investments, homes, etc, she had. To say nothing of bankrupting her husband when she divorced him. And he was also rich! So, after she asked me to contribute to her bringing them Health and Wealth gospel to this foreign country, she died, about 4 or 5 months later. She kept telling me God had healed her, and she was going because God said she was! Am I bitter? No, it was a big lesson on how these evil doctrine enslaved her and killed her.
So the health side of the Health and Wealth gospel kills people, the Wealth side steals their money, leaving them lost and broken!
What did someone say that was good about any of these preachers? Oh, right, it makes people happy! Sigh!
PS, God has blessed my husband totally in our retirement years, and we have not received an inheritance or anything. One day, we were poor, we kept following God with all our hearts, and I went to seminary, which cost a lot of monehy, no lie! My husband went to retire from his job, and there was all this money. Never, did we ask for money, we just kept being faithful, giving to our local church, and to the poor locally and world wide, and suddenly, we were comfortable. What more could anyone ask?
Post on Osteen, or maybe the whole Prosperity part of this evil fake "gospel" that enslaves people and drives them away from God? Hmm, I will consider that!
But right now, again, I do have a life, and just wasted another hour when I could have been doing things in my life, all to rehash the same garbage, which the same individuals keep posting! And yes, Ariel, I am a teacher, and God has called me to refute these lies which amount to little more than propaganda for a heresy!