GOD CREATES EVIL

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
C

cfultz3

Guest
#41
#41
RoBoT-7x153- said:
Genesis 2: 16-17;
And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

HE didn't say, ''if you eat of this fruit'', instead HE said ''when you eat of it, you will surely die!'' HE says ''thou shalt not eat'', then HE says ''in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die''

This is what the cross is all about, the outer man dying, and Christ growing within! The problem is that the majority are still full of them ‘’selves’’, and that has to die! Take your cross and die daily, death to self, and self-denial! If you cannot bear your cross, then you cannot be a disciple of HIS! HE is the MASTER, and HE knows everything that will take place before it ever does! This is HIS program, and HE is the SOURCE of the POWER. Self has to die and the WORD has to grow within, that’s the SEED of TRUTH. That’s what JESUS CHRIST is all about! GOD's WILL BE DONE!
Click to expand...
No. The word 'when' is your imputation. God gave an absolute command: do or do not do. and that 'for' is giving them the reason not to eat from it: beacuse if you do, then you will surely die. They decided by their own will to go against a command given to them by God.

If one is to take his cross, then that itself implies he has a choice to either take it or leave it. I agree that we are to die to self, but then again that is a choice. If one does not desire to die to flesh, then of the flesh he shall rip. But if you dies to the flesh and take up his cross, then he has decided to be made alive to his spirit and be led by God's Spirit. Saying that we have no freewill is saying that we are robots programmed to either be damned or saved and negates the offer to all whosoever will believe and negates the offer of salvation through faith, seeing that we are merely carrying out what God has preordained for us to do or not to do. If this is so, that we do not have freewill but are just robots carrying out orders, then who is God to judge that which He has pre-ordained?

For Him to be the Master would also contain the concept of freewill, seeing that it says that we are to have but one master, it is we who are to decide if darkness or the Light is to be the light for our souls.

We can continue once you have address that post which speaks of Adad and Eve's, Lucifer, Jesus freewill. Was it not Jesus who said, 'Not my will, but your will be done'. And if Jesus desired to fulfill His Father's will, then it is apparent that He had freewill to choose good and life.
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#42
#42
cfultz3 said:
The first recording in Scripture concerning freewill was Adam and Eve's choice to obey or not obey. They themselves made that choice and faced then ceonsences (for every action there is an equal and oppositie reaction). Because of 'A' then 'B' must have had to occur.

Then we are brought over to where Lucifer, in that same first example of choice, made a choice in his ability to obey or not obey. In his difiance of the cosmic Law, he alone decided to rebel against God's Law which stated that there is no other God besides God. Because of the choice he made, he was thrown out of Heaven.

Now we come to all the 'whosoevers' in the new Testaments. It does not say, 'all those who I have predestined to fulfill certain acts will have everlasting life'. No. It says, 'whosoever shall believe...will have everlasting life'.

Indeed, the choice to obey or not to obey belongs to us. Listen:

Deu 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.

Deu 30:15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

Deu 30:16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

Deu 30:17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;

Deu 30:18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Do you know that God has a choice too and that we are made in His image? So many verses speaks of God having a choice. God does not seek robots, but they who will freely call Him Lord.

Shall we also know that the child Jesus also had a choice between good and evil:

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Isa 7:15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

Isa 7:16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.
Click to expand...
Mind responding to this?
 
C

carolineh

Banned
#44
Sep 10, 2012
758
4
0
#44
I recently heard a sermon on this topic about God creating evil and the actual interpretation of the word is closer to disasters...God creates disasters..like He did with the flood..He cannot go against His nature and create evil or instil evil into His creation..just like God cannot create God
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#45
#45
carolineh said:
I recently heard a sermon on this topic about God creating evil and the actual interpretation of the word is closer to disasters...God creates disasters..like He did with the flood..He cannot go against His nature and create evil or instil evil into His creation..just like God cannot create God
Click to expand...
in addition:

even as with Job.
 
R

RoBoT-7x153-

Guest
#46
#46
cfultz3 said:
No. The word 'when' is your imputation. God gave an absolute command: do or do not do. and that 'for' is giving them the reason not to eat from it: beacuse if you do, then you will surely die. They decided by their own will to go against a command given to them by God.

If one is to take his cross, then that itself implies he has a choice to either take it or leave it. I agree that we are to die to self, but then again that is a choice. If one does not desire to die to flesh, then of the flesh he shall rip. But if you dies to the flesh and take up his cross, then he has decided to be made alive to his spirit and be led by God's Spirit. Saying that we have no freewill is saying that we are robots programmed to either be damned or saved and negates the offer to all whosoever will believe and negates the offer of salvation through faith, seeing that we are merely carrying out what God has preordained for us to do or not to do. If this is so, that we do not have freewill but are just robots carrying out orders, then who is God to judge that which He has pre-ordained?

For Him to be the Master would also contain the concept of freewill, seeing that it says that we are to have but one master, it is we who are to decide if darkness or the Light is to be the light for our souls.

We can continue once you have address that post which speaks of Adad and Eve's, Lucifer, Jesus freewill. Was it not Jesus who said, 'Not my will, but your will be done'. And if Jesus desired to fulfill His Father's will, then it is apparent that He had freewill to choose good and life.
Click to expand...
Genesis 2: 17;
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Read what HIS WORD says! HE knew beforehand what was going to happen, HE's GOD! HE knows the end from the beginning. The outer man dies, while CHRIST grows within. Read HIS WORD! For those elect who belong to HIM, HE will absolutely beat self out of the equation, through these many trials, afflictions, persecutions, and tribulations. God absolutely has everything pre-ordained, and predestination is the very backbone of the Bible! HE knows what will happen before it ever does take place! HE's GOD, and is absolutely beyond this timeframe that people's minds are stuck in. Everything is in the control of GOD, and if you don't believe that, then you do not believe in HIM.

Satan does not move, without GOD's direct permission. God ordained the murder of JESUS in the hands of evil men!

Acts 4: 27-28; For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
 
R

RoBoT-7x153-

Guest
#47
#47
I'm moving on, read HIS WORD for yourself. HE does not need mankinds justification, HE is GOD!
 
R

Reality

Banned
#48
Nov 26, 2012
110
0
0
#48
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

Epicurus 341–270 B.C.
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#49
#49
cfultz3 said:
The first recording in Scripture concerning freewill was Adam and Eve's choice to obey or not obey. They themselves made that choice and faced then ceonsences (for every action there is an equal and oppositie reaction). Because of 'A' then 'B' must have had to occur.

Then we are brought over to where Lucifer, in that same first example of choice, made a choice in his ability to obey or not obey. In his difiance of the cosmic Law, he alone decided to rebel against God's Law which stated that there is no other God besides God. Because of the choice he made, he was thrown out of Heaven.

Now we come to all the 'whosoevers' in the new Testaments. It does not say, 'all those who I have predestined to fulfill certain acts will have everlasting life'. No. It says, 'whosoever shall believe...will have everlasting life'.

Indeed, the choice to obey or not to obey belongs to us. Listen:

Deu 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.

Deu 30:15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

Deu 30:16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

Deu 30:17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;

Deu 30:18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Do you know that God has a choice too and that we are made in His image? So many verses speaks of God having a choice. God does not seek robots, but they who will freely call Him Lord.

Shall we also know that the child Jesus also had a choice between good and evil:

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Isa 7:15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

Isa 7:16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.
Click to expand...
Yet, these are His WORDS too and you keep running from them. You cannot set there and claim God was evil in His creation in having made us 'to do harm' when it is said that we are made in His image. Accept all of of GOD'S WORDS not just the one's that fit your doctrne of having an evil god.
 
R

RoBoT-7x153-

Guest
#50
#50
I NEVER SAID GOD WAS EVIL! GOD IS GOOD! PEOPLE ARE EVIL SINNERS! THAT'S WHAT HIS WORD SAYS! IT'S NOT MY FAULT YOU DON'T READ IT ALL!
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#51
#51
Robot,

You continue to ingore those Scriptures. So apparently, your doctrine is not sound enough to defend its weakness. Goodbye...
 
R

RoBoT-7x153-

Guest
#52
#52
The majority are unlearned, there is ONLY 1 DOCTRINE (didache) which means instruction. There is ONLY 1 INSTRUCTOR. I'm simply posting HIS WORD!
 
G

GreenNnice

Guest
#53
#53
RoBoT-7x153- said:
The majority are unlearned, there is ONLY 1 DOCTRINE (didache) which means instruction. There is ONLY 1 INSTRUCTOR. I'm simply posting HIS WORD!
Click to expand...
This instructor, why did He create evil? And, what, just, for now looking, at Isaiah 55:7, did God call the evil created? God created darkness so man WOULD make a choice, a GOOD choice, robotic. True, the Lord knows everything, He just does, but He allows man to choose How created evil. Now, does THIS Truth make God evil? Of course, not. God, as cfultz stated, created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. God said to Adam and Eve, 'Eat of every tree but one,' which was the tree of the KoGAE. This is knowledge that man is NOT to eat from, for in it is DEATH. EVIL, God created it, too, but, God gave man the CHOICE to partake of it. Man did partake of it but those who seek God get by it, to the Truth. God KNEW man would 'fall' in Eden but that was NOT God moving Adam to His chosen end, it was God bringing glory to Himself and staying true to His promises, for God cannot lie, for God is Love.

God did not create evil to hurt man but to bring on CALAMITY that WILL FREELY draw those, otherwise lost ,to Him. Many events in history simply demonstrate the power of God, showing those that will not believe in Him that there way is the wrong way, He wants them to make a turnaround , to Him.
EVERYTHI NG God does IS to bring glory to Him, He does move at times that defy human understanding, His glory, I call it, His doings beyond man's finite mind understanding, but we have the mind of Christ.
This further contexts Is. 55:7 and, not so coincidentally , the very next two verses offer GREAT reason for God creating darkness and evil in the world. Why? So man, with His mind, HAS a choice :) His mind ;)

Is. 55:8,9 -- For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
C

carolineh

Banned
#54
Sep 10, 2012
758
4
0
#54
Reality said:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

Epicurus 341–270 B.C.
Click to expand...
God is able to prevent evil but not always willing because what humans intend for evil, God intends for good so you are very wicked to call God malevolent and not all good and all able to use evil to create good or able to have good result from evil
 
R

Reality

Banned
#55
Nov 26, 2012
110
0
0
#55
carolineh said:
God is able to prevent evil but not always willing because what humans intend for evil, God intends for good so you are very wicked to call God malevolent and not all good and all able to use evil to create good or able to have good result from evil
Click to expand...
God intends for good? I'm sorry but have you ever been to a children's hospital? Not sure how anyone
can come out of there thinking there's a lot of "good" there.

It's a quote from Epicurus. I just thought it was relevant.
 
G

GreenNnice

Guest
#56
#56
Reality said:
God intends for good? I'm sorry but have you ever been to a children's hospital? Not sure how anyone
can come out of there thinking there's a lot of "good" there.

It's a quote from Epicurus. I just thought it was relevant.
Click to expand...
NEVERTHELESS, God 'meant' good. Man's heart is utterltly evil, Jeremiah says in Scripture but God is purely good. Yes, God created evil, but man has a choice to become a part of 'its' masterful plan :(, or, His plans :) that He has lined up and ready to GO on earth. This is not the dullard response of just His plan of our going to Heaven, it's His plan of how we can REPENT and experience Heaven on earth, as it is in Heaven. We are to pray for OUR FOLLOWING God's will on earth as it is in Heaven,' Lord's prayer,' just a cfultz said , quoting Jesus, with the 'cup' of death in Jesus' clutched hands, 'not my will, but Thy will be done, Father.'


((((((((())))))))This, of what is said below, is of a PM response to robotichi, anyone wants to PM me, do, but be warned ;) ....there is no 'if' robotic says in God's commands. I, Dear Lord, amen, do differ on this 100% , God is in control of all things, Yes, evenso, us, He knows all, but He does not do all, because He gave us THAT knowledge of good, just, to begin with. And, when Satan entered via 'the tree' man was INTRODUCED, and, chose EVIL :(
:::::::::
RoBoT-7x153- said:
You said ''This reveals that God commanded that they NOT do something and yet said IF they CHOSE to do so, they would suffer consequences of said CHOICE.''

You have twisted the WORD of GOD! HIS WORD absolutely DOES NOT say IF!

Genesis 2: 17;
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

GOD says ''thou shalt not eat of it''! Then HE says ''for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die''.

The word IF absolutely IS NOT in the verse! HE knows beforehand everything that ever has taken place and everything that ever will, HE's GOD! HE's declared the end, from the beginning!

Isaiah 46: 10;
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

This is why the outer man perishes, while the inner man grows! Less of ''me'' and more of HIM! The outer man absolutely has to die! This cross is every day, not once per week nor once a year!

Luke 14: 26-27; If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

The problem is ''self'', the problem has always been ''me''.
Click to expand...
So what IF God doesn't say 'if' in garden of Eden verse, robotic?

Why? It's obvious :)

IF Adam and Eve eat of the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they will die.

The 'if' is not only obvious hypothesis it is implied as a choice. What don't you see here??

Yes, God created evil, but God does not DO evil, man BRINGS 'it' upon himself by own 'hard heart' choice. God CREATED evil. Not....

....as is your thread title 'creates' evil. No! God CREATED EVIL all things , by Him all things CREATED. SO, good, too, God created it. But MAN is given choice of what to do with what God gives man. Good or evil.

Remember, Adám and Eve ALREADY had the knowledge of 'good' in the garden, but, then God gave them BOTH the knowledge of EVIL the MOMENT they disobeyed His commands.

What man does with his awareness of evil makes all the difference in one's life, which is where accepting Christ as one's personal Saviour enters in, remembering His grace saved YOU, through FAITH, YOURS, which is NOT of YOURSELF. YOUR ability to have a 'measure' or faith--and this Truth goes for all humans--is ALL God. Nothing YOU did makes YOU going to Heaven, God gave YOU your faith . Use it, as He puts good, or, evil, like God allowed Satan's EVIL upon Job's life. In THIS CONTEXT SENSE, and, in sense of evil created and Satan FED Joseph's brothers to do the EVIL they did.

But, just read Genesis chapter 50 for FULL understanding of what YOU (man, fed by Satan, and, the flesh 'master) intended for evil God meant for good.
BASH "As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive."

The power of God at work, robotic, through direct demonstration, and, interaction, in people's lives. But God MADE the (evil) 'man' CHOICES by Joseph's brothers, turn out for His good purposes .

Man DID make the choice, God WORKED THROUGH that choice to bring about His purposed good. Joseph's CHOICE to follow God brought about the good, but, too, NEVER forget God's providential 'hand' over EVERYTHING :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
C

cfultz3

Guest
#57
#57
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

If God molded the Light, then He has brought forth the Darkness also. The Darkness is the light the children of the rebellion look upon and is the state which the Light is absent. These are the two states our souls were given to have existence in: to be in or to be out in the Light.

If God produces (makes) peace, then He also dispatches (from same word as 'create') evil (to do harm), as He did on Job. If it is said that God created, as to bring into existence, evil, then it is to be said that God has caused all evil. If God has caused all evil, then He would be found unjust as a Judge who judges wickedness.

But evil (to do harm) was brought about by Lucifer when he desired to do harm (evil) to God's system and be made equal to God. Evil (to do harm) was brought to man when Satan wanted to harm the fellowship man had with God and harm (evil) was caused by that will to do evil (to do harm).

Let it not be said by any that God is the Creator of evil, otherwise there would be shadiness in the Light. God permits evil, He is not the source of it, seeing that saying this, God would be working against Himself in that He is trying to bring man back to the fellowship we had with Him, while at the same time, trying to destroy that same process.

Let it not be said by any that God is the Creator of evil.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#58
#58
cfultz,

Could you please tell me what is happening here?

Isaiah 10:5-7
5 Ah, Assyria, the rod of my anger;
the staff in their hands is my fury!
6 Against a godless nation I send him,
and against the people of my wrath I command him,
to take spoil and seize plunder,
and to tread them down like the mire of the streets.
7 But he does not so intend,
and his heart does not so think;
but it is in his heart to destroy,
and to cut off nations not a few;


Thank you,
Your Secret Admirer
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#59
#59
jimmydiggs said:
cfultz,

Could you please tell me what is happening here?

Isaiah 10:5-7
5 Ah, Assyria, the rod of my anger;
the staff in their hands is my fury!
6 Against a godless nation I send him,
and against the people of my wrath I command him,
to take spoil and seize plunder,
and to tread them down like the mire of the streets.
7 But he does not so intend,
and his heart does not so think;
but it is in his heart to destroy,
and to cut off nations not a few;


Thank you,
Your Secret Admirer
Click to expand...
give me time to cook supper and I will be back
 
You must log in or register to reply here.