God the Son says he has a God... Why?
- Thread starter CherieR
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let me ask anyone who is saying Jesus is not God this:
WHAT DOES JOHN 1:1-14 MEAN???????????
what is the Word???? i saw someone say its God's plan of salvation but wait are they saying gospel is God??????
come on now tell me what/who the WORD (who is God) which became FLESH is in your belief system?????????????
WHAT DOES JOHN 1:1-14 MEAN???????????
what is the Word???? i saw someone say its God's plan of salvation but wait are they saying gospel is God??????
come on now tell me what/who the WORD (who is God) which became FLESH is in your belief system?????????????
That's a fair question, but let me ask you if the ability to speak the word comes from the flesh or the spirit? It's seems kinda ironic that most Christians will say that the ability to speak is not a gift of the Spirit but rather claim it is a natural manifestation of their physical creation. Of course, since it is written in John 3:8 that Jesus said:
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit
And you believe that you can hear the sound of the wind, right? The sound you hear is not the wind but the motion of air molecules which causes the air molecules to move, or at least that is what I heard the wind tell me but then again I am deaf in one ear and can't hear out of the other. But then again, ever notice that only man can communicate using the spoken word. Oh but that's right, animals can't speak because they don't have the physical ability to produce the sound of the spoken word, right. Well that is what was long thought to be the case until they actually looked into the matter and discovered that the physical factor which was believed to be the reason they couldn't speak didn't hold water.
Do you not know where the wind comes from and where it goes? The Circuits
Source that monkeys can't speak because they physically lack the ability to produce the sound wave. Max Planck Institute
Source that monkeys do have the physical ability would should allow for them to speak. New Scientist
I see in the OT in Genesis 3:1 where the word became flesh also, or maybe in Genesis 6:3 where the LORD said that his spirit shall not strive with man, for he is flesh also. Of course there is the Biblical account of where an ass spoke, yet the ass didn't speak by it's physical ability but rather the LORD opened the mouth of creature.
So if God is the Word, then why is it written that he is born of the Spirit is spirit rather than he that is born of the Word is word. But ironically, a child can't develop the ability to speak unless they are actively engaged with the spoken word, which is to say they can't develop the ability to speak by simply hearing a radio or recording of people speaking.
But anyway, my tongue is tired from talking so much.
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit
And you believe that you can hear the sound of the wind, right? The sound you hear is not the wind but the motion of air molecules which causes the air molecules to move, or at least that is what I heard the wind tell me but then again I am deaf in one ear and can't hear out of the other. But then again, ever notice that only man can communicate using the spoken word. Oh but that's right, animals can't speak because they don't have the physical ability to produce the sound of the spoken word, right. Well that is what was long thought to be the case until they actually looked into the matter and discovered that the physical factor which was believed to be the reason they couldn't speak didn't hold water.
Do you not know where the wind comes from and where it goes? The Circuits
Source that monkeys can't speak because they physically lack the ability to produce the sound wave. Max Planck Institute
Source that monkeys do have the physical ability would should allow for them to speak. New Scientist
I see in the OT in Genesis 3:1 where the word became flesh also, or maybe in Genesis 6:3 where the LORD said that his spirit shall not strive with man, for he is flesh also. Of course there is the Biblical account of where an ass spoke, yet the ass didn't speak by it's physical ability but rather the LORD opened the mouth of creature.
So if God is the Word, then why is it written that he is born of the Spirit is spirit rather than he that is born of the Word is word. But ironically, a child can't develop the ability to speak unless they are actively engaged with the spoken word, which is to say they can't develop the ability to speak by simply hearing a radio or recording of people speaking.
But anyway, my tongue is tired from talking so much.
Hi cherie, you ask a very good question and I don't know how I missed this thread but let me try and address your question? First let me say "yes" Jesus Christ was submissive to His Father. This is based on Philippians chapter 2 and if you read the first 3 verses you will see that the Apostle Paul is telling these Philippian Christians not to be selfish and "regard" other first and not yourself. At vs4 he says, "do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interest of others."
Now comes the good part so bear with me on this. At vs5 Paul uses Jesus Christ as a perfect example of what kind of attitude these believers should have. "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, Vs6, (Now watch this cherrie.) "who" (meaning Jesus Christ) although He existed in the form of God, (This means that "in spite of the fact" that Jesus Christ existed as God, He did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped." In other words, Jesus Christ gave up the way of life of deity to take the way of life of a servant.
Vs7, "but emptied Himself taking the form of a bond-servant and being found in the likeness of men." Vs8, And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself BY BECOMING OBEDIENT TO THE POINT OF DEATH, even death on a cross." So the Apotle Paul is saying that even though Jesus Christ was God, He took the form of a servant/man for our sakes and died for us on that cross. And as a man, He was obedient to His Father just like we are to be obedient to God the Father in all things.
And as a man, this is why Jesus said, "I go to My God and your God." Or, Him saying, "This is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the only true God etc." Or other questions like, "If Jesus is God how come He did not know the day of His return?" Does this make sense to you cherrie? And one more thing which you mentioned I had read. You said Isaiah saw God? I just started a thread on this issue the other day so here is what I wrote.
"ISAIAH SEES GOD.
Now comes the good part so bear with me on this. At vs5 Paul uses Jesus Christ as a perfect example of what kind of attitude these believers should have. "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, Vs6, (Now watch this cherrie.) "who" (meaning Jesus Christ) although He existed in the form of God, (This means that "in spite of the fact" that Jesus Christ existed as God, He did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped." In other words, Jesus Christ gave up the way of life of deity to take the way of life of a servant.
Vs7, "but emptied Himself taking the form of a bond-servant and being found in the likeness of men." Vs8, And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself BY BECOMING OBEDIENT TO THE POINT OF DEATH, even death on a cross." So the Apotle Paul is saying that even though Jesus Christ was God, He took the form of a servant/man for our sakes and died for us on that cross. And as a man, He was obedient to His Father just like we are to be obedient to God the Father in all things.
And as a man, this is why Jesus said, "I go to My God and your God." Or, Him saying, "This is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the only true God etc." Or other questions like, "If Jesus is God how come He did not know the day of His return?" Does this make sense to you cherrie? And one more thing which you mentioned I had read. You said Isaiah saw God? I just started a thread on this issue the other day so here is what I wrote.
"ISAIAH SEES GOD.
In the year of King Uzziah's death I saw the Lord sitting on a throne , lofty and exalted, with the train of His robe filling the temple. Seraphim stood above Him, each having six wings; with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. And one called out to another and said, ?Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord of hosts, The whole early is full of His glory." Then I said, Woe is me, for I am ruined! Becasue I am a man of unclean lips, And I live among a people of unclean lips; FOR MY EYES HAVE SEEN THE KING, THE LORD OF HOSTS." Isaiah 6:1-5. As a side note King Uzziah was a good king.
This is the only time Isaiah saw the glory of YHWH. The Apostle John refers to this event at John at John 12:36-41 which you can read for yourself but I will quote the most important verse, John 12:41, "These things Isaiah said, BECAUSE HE SAW HIS GLORY, AND HE SPOKE OF HIM."
The verb Isaiah used for "say" at Isaiah 6:1 is "ra'ah". It refers to the act of seeing in the literal sense, tol see with the eyes (as opposed to, for example, "machazeh" which is the act or event of an ecstatic "vision." The Apostle John in refering to this event uses teh Greek word "eidon" also a verb refering to the act of seeing with the eyes in the natural sense.
We also know that God the Father is invisible, "whom no man hath seen, nor can see" according to 1 Timothy 6:16. He is transcendent and lives in unapproachable light, 1 Timothy 6:16. Also the Son is "the image of the invisible God" according to Colossians 1:15. Thus the one whom Isaiah "saw" in the literal sense with his eyes is the one whom he explicitly idnetified as "YHWH" the same one whose glory he saw according to John at John 12:41.
Jesus Himself makes this clear at John 12:45, "And he who seeth Me seeth the One who sent Me." Keep in mind it was John under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that previously identified the one who became flesh and dwelt among us (John 1:14) as "God" at John 1:1. In short, Isaiah saw the glory of God/Jesus Christ who is clearly identified by the Apostle John as God Himself or as Isaiah put it at Isaiah 6:5, "For my eyes have seen the Kingd, the Lord of hosts."
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
This is the only time Isaiah saw the glory of YHWH. The Apostle John refers to this event at John at John 12:36-41 which you can read for yourself but I will quote the most important verse, John 12:41, "These things Isaiah said, BECAUSE HE SAW HIS GLORY, AND HE SPOKE OF HIM."
The verb Isaiah used for "say" at Isaiah 6:1 is "ra'ah". It refers to the act of seeing in the literal sense, tol see with the eyes (as opposed to, for example, "machazeh" which is the act or event of an ecstatic "vision." The Apostle John in refering to this event uses teh Greek word "eidon" also a verb refering to the act of seeing with the eyes in the natural sense.
We also know that God the Father is invisible, "whom no man hath seen, nor can see" according to 1 Timothy 6:16. He is transcendent and lives in unapproachable light, 1 Timothy 6:16. Also the Son is "the image of the invisible God" according to Colossians 1:15. Thus the one whom Isaiah "saw" in the literal sense with his eyes is the one whom he explicitly idnetified as "YHWH" the same one whose glory he saw according to John at John 12:41.
Jesus Himself makes this clear at John 12:45, "And he who seeth Me seeth the One who sent Me." Keep in mind it was John under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that previously identified the one who became flesh and dwelt among us (John 1:14) as "God" at John 1:1. In short, Isaiah saw the glory of God/Jesus Christ who is clearly identified by the Apostle John as God Himself or as Isaiah put it at Isaiah 6:5, "For my eyes have seen the Kingd, the Lord of hosts."
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
The Word are the thoughts of God spoken by God.
In the beginning were the thoughts of God
and the thoughts of God was with God
the thoughts of God are God.
The thoughts of God was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by God; and without God was not any thing made that was made.
In God was life; and the life was the light of men.
In the beginning were the thoughts of God
and the thoughts of God was with God
the thoughts of God are God.
The thoughts of God was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by God; and without God was not any thing made that was made.
In God was life; and the life was the light of men.
Jesus is God manifest in the flesh,God and man in harmony.
Acoording to His deity He is the mighty God,the Almighty,and from everlasting,which means He has no beginning,and made after the order of Melchizedek,who was without natural descent,without father and mother,having neither beginning of days,or end of life,a visible manifestation of God in the Old Testament,but that was a temporary manifestation of God,made of dust went back to dust,but Jesus is a permanent visible manifestation of God.
According to His humanity He was made of a woman,made under the law,made according to the flesh.
Jesus could speak as a man or as God when He was on earth.
He spoke as a man when He told Mary,I ascend to My Father,and your Father,and My God,and your God.
He spoke as a man when a man called Him good Master,and He said,why do you call Me good,for there is only one good,and that is God,which the man Christ Jesus is saying I am only doing good,because God is causing Me to do good.
He spoke as a man when He cried out on the cross,My God,My God,why have you forsaken Me.
He spoke as a man when He prayed to the Father that the saints could have the same glory that He would receive,and behold His glory,which the man Christ Jesus would obtain eternal life,and have a glorified body,and prayed that the saints could also receive that glory,and that they would behold His glory as Jesus sits on the throne in heaven,which is the throne of God and the Lamb,God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.
God calls things that have not happened yet,as though they already happened,like the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world,and the prophets blood was shed from the foundation of the world.
Jesus said He had this glory in the beginning with the Father,but it was a plan of God for Him to receive that glory in the future,so it is the same as if He had that glory in the beginning,which He was speaking as a man,so He could of not been born in the beginning,and He prayed that the saints could have that glory,so He was not speaking of glory as God,for the saints could never receive that glory,for God does not give His glory to another,and only He is God.
Jesus called God,His God,according to His humanity.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
God reconciled the world unto Himself in the person of Jesus Christ,God and man in harmony,for the man Christ Jesus is sinless,and the mediator between God and men,and all who receive the Spirit are in harmony with God as the man Christ Jesus is in harmony with God.
Acoording to His deity He is the mighty God,the Almighty,and from everlasting,which means He has no beginning,and made after the order of Melchizedek,who was without natural descent,without father and mother,having neither beginning of days,or end of life,a visible manifestation of God in the Old Testament,but that was a temporary manifestation of God,made of dust went back to dust,but Jesus is a permanent visible manifestation of God.
According to His humanity He was made of a woman,made under the law,made according to the flesh.
Jesus could speak as a man or as God when He was on earth.
He spoke as a man when He told Mary,I ascend to My Father,and your Father,and My God,and your God.
He spoke as a man when a man called Him good Master,and He said,why do you call Me good,for there is only one good,and that is God,which the man Christ Jesus is saying I am only doing good,because God is causing Me to do good.
He spoke as a man when He cried out on the cross,My God,My God,why have you forsaken Me.
He spoke as a man when He prayed to the Father that the saints could have the same glory that He would receive,and behold His glory,which the man Christ Jesus would obtain eternal life,and have a glorified body,and prayed that the saints could also receive that glory,and that they would behold His glory as Jesus sits on the throne in heaven,which is the throne of God and the Lamb,God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.
God calls things that have not happened yet,as though they already happened,like the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world,and the prophets blood was shed from the foundation of the world.
Jesus said He had this glory in the beginning with the Father,but it was a plan of God for Him to receive that glory in the future,so it is the same as if He had that glory in the beginning,which He was speaking as a man,so He could of not been born in the beginning,and He prayed that the saints could have that glory,so He was not speaking of glory as God,for the saints could never receive that glory,for God does not give His glory to another,and only He is God.
Jesus called God,His God,according to His humanity.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
God reconciled the world unto Himself in the person of Jesus Christ,God and man in harmony,for the man Christ Jesus is sinless,and the mediator between God and men,and all who receive the Spirit are in harmony with God as the man Christ Jesus is in harmony with God.
Oh no, not another "brilliant post fgt? Let me ask you something? Are your words with you? I mean do I really have to know that your words are with you? Why would the Apostle John have to explain to us that God's spoken word is with Him and His spoken word is Him? And at John 1:2, do you really think the Apostle John has to repeat himself by telling us that God's spoken word was with Him in the beginning?
And another thing you said? "the thoughts of God are God?" Well whose thoughts would they be if they are not God's thoughts in the first place?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Let me ask you something? Are your words with you? I mean do I really have to know that your words are with you? Why would the Apostle John have to explain to us that God's spoken word is with Him and His spoken word is Him? And at John 1:2, do you really think the Apostle John has to repeat himself by telling us that God's spoken word was with Him in the beginning?And another thing you said? "the thoughts of God are God?" Well whose thoughts would they be if they are not God's thoughts in the first place?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Hi cherie, you ask a very good question and I don't know how I missed this thread but let me try and address your question? First let me say "yes" Jesus Christ was submissive to His Father. This is based on Philippians chapter 2 and if you read the first 3 verses you will see that the Apostle Paul is telling these Philippian Christians not to be selfish and "regard" other first and not yourself. At vs4 he says, "do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interest of others."
Now comes the good part so bear with me on this. At vs5 Paul uses Jesus Christ as a perfect example of what kind of attitude these believers should have. "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, Vs6, (Now watch this cherrie.) "who" (meaning Jesus Christ) although He existed in the form of God, (This means that "in spite of the fact" that Jesus Christ existed as God, He did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped." In other words, Jesus Christ gave up the way of life of deity to take the way of life of a servant.
Vs7, "but emptied Himself taking the form of a bond-servant and being found in the likeness of men." Vs8, And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself BY BECOMING OBEDIENT TO THE POINT OF DEATH, even death on a cross." So the Apotle Paul is saying that even though Jesus Christ was God, He took the form of a servant/man for our sakes and died for us on that cross. And as a man, He was obedient to His Father just like we are to be obedient to God the Father in all things.
And as a man, this is why Jesus said, "I go to My God and your God." Or, Him saying, "This is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the only true God etc." Or other questions like, "If Jesus is God how come He did not know the day of His return?" Does this make sense to you cherrie? And one more thing which you mentioned I had read. You said Isaiah saw God? I just started a thread on this issue the other day so here is what I wrote.
"ISAIAH SEES GOD.
Now comes the good part so bear with me on this. At vs5 Paul uses Jesus Christ as a perfect example of what kind of attitude these believers should have. "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, Vs6, (Now watch this cherrie.) "who" (meaning Jesus Christ) although He existed in the form of God, (This means that "in spite of the fact" that Jesus Christ existed as God, He did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped." In other words, Jesus Christ gave up the way of life of deity to take the way of life of a servant.
Vs7, "but emptied Himself taking the form of a bond-servant and being found in the likeness of men." Vs8, And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself BY BECOMING OBEDIENT TO THE POINT OF DEATH, even death on a cross." So the Apotle Paul is saying that even though Jesus Christ was God, He took the form of a servant/man for our sakes and died for us on that cross. And as a man, He was obedient to His Father just like we are to be obedient to God the Father in all things.
And as a man, this is why Jesus said, "I go to My God and your God." Or, Him saying, "This is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the only true God etc." Or other questions like, "If Jesus is God how come He did not know the day of His return?" Does this make sense to you cherrie? And one more thing which you mentioned I had read. You said Isaiah saw God? I just started a thread on this issue the other day so here is what I wrote.
"ISAIAH SEES GOD.
In the year of King Uzziah's death I saw the Lord sitting on a throne , lofty and exalted, with the train of His robe filling the temple. Seraphim stood above Him, each having six wings; with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. And one called out to another and said, ?Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord of hosts, The whole early is full of His glory." Then I said, Woe is me, for I am ruined! Becasue I am a man of unclean lips, And I live among a people of unclean lips; FOR MY EYES HAVE SEEN THE KING, THE LORD OF HOSTS." Isaiah 6:1-5. As a side note King Uzziah was a good king.
This is the only time Isaiah saw the glory of YHWH. The Apostle John refers to this event at John at John 12:36-41 which you can read for yourself but I will quote the most important verse, John 12:41, "These things Isaiah said, BECAUSE HE SAW HIS GLORY, AND HE SPOKE OF HIM."
The verb Isaiah used for "say" at Isaiah 6:1 is "ra'ah". It refers to the act of seeing in the literal sense, tol see with the eyes (as opposed to, for example, "machazeh" which is the act or event of an ecstatic "vision." The Apostle John in refering to this event uses teh Greek word "eidon" also a verb refering to the act of seeing with the eyes in the natural sense.
We also know that God the Father is invisible, "whom no man hath seen, nor can see" according to 1 Timothy 6:16. He is transcendent and lives in unapproachable light, 1 Timothy 6:16. Also the Son is "the image of the invisible God" according to Colossians 1:15. Thus the one whom Isaiah "saw" in the literal sense with his eyes is the one whom he explicitly idnetified as "YHWH" the same one whose glory he saw according to John at John 12:41.
Jesus Himself makes this clear at John 12:45, "And he who seeth Me seeth the One who sent Me." Keep in mind it was John under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that previously identified the one who became flesh and dwelt among us (John 1:14) as "God" at John 1:1. In short, Isaiah saw the glory of God/Jesus Christ who is clearly identified by the Apostle John as God Himself or as Isaiah put it at Isaiah 6:5, "For my eyes have seen the Kingd, the Lord of hosts."
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
This is the only time Isaiah saw the glory of YHWH. The Apostle John refers to this event at John at John 12:36-41 which you can read for yourself but I will quote the most important verse, John 12:41, "These things Isaiah said, BECAUSE HE SAW HIS GLORY, AND HE SPOKE OF HIM."
The verb Isaiah used for "say" at Isaiah 6:1 is "ra'ah". It refers to the act of seeing in the literal sense, tol see with the eyes (as opposed to, for example, "machazeh" which is the act or event of an ecstatic "vision." The Apostle John in refering to this event uses teh Greek word "eidon" also a verb refering to the act of seeing with the eyes in the natural sense.
We also know that God the Father is invisible, "whom no man hath seen, nor can see" according to 1 Timothy 6:16. He is transcendent and lives in unapproachable light, 1 Timothy 6:16. Also the Son is "the image of the invisible God" according to Colossians 1:15. Thus the one whom Isaiah "saw" in the literal sense with his eyes is the one whom he explicitly idnetified as "YHWH" the same one whose glory he saw according to John at John 12:41.
Jesus Himself makes this clear at John 12:45, "And he who seeth Me seeth the One who sent Me." Keep in mind it was John under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that previously identified the one who became flesh and dwelt among us (John 1:14) as "God" at John 1:1. In short, Isaiah saw the glory of God/Jesus Christ who is clearly identified by the Apostle John as God Himself or as Isaiah put it at Isaiah 6:5, "For my eyes have seen the Kingd, the Lord of hosts."
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
john 17:Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Oh no, not another "brilliant post fgt? Let me ask you something? Are your words with you? I mean do I really have to know that your words are with you? Why would the Apostle John have to explain to us that God's spoken word is with Him and His spoken word is Him? And at John 1:2, do you really think the Apostle John has to repeat himself by telling us that God's spoken word was with Him in the beginning?
And another thing you said? "the thoughts of God are God?" Well whose thoughts would they be if they are not God's thoughts in the first place?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Let me ask you something? Are your words with you? I mean do I really have to know that your words are with you? Why would the Apostle John have to explain to us that God's spoken word is with Him and His spoken word is Him? And at John 1:2, do you really think the Apostle John has to repeat himself by telling us that God's spoken word was with Him in the beginning?And another thing you said? "the thoughts of God are God?" Well whose thoughts would they be if they are not God's thoughts in the first place?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
He answered and said unto them,
Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven,
but to them it is not given.
This is why you cannot understand that to which I post.