Gods elects

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Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#21
Jul 18, 2017
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#21
oldhermit said:
Since the Calvinist rely so much on Romans 9 to defend this doctrine perhaps we could look at this chapter together.
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Romans 9 is in fact a much abused chapter to support an untenable doctrine -- unconditional election. Any Bible doctrine must take ALL Scripture into account, particularly all Gospel truth when it applies to the salvation of souls.

It is IMPOSSIBLE that God would elect some for salvation and condemn the majority to damnation. But that is precisely what Reformed Theology teaches. So the questions to ask Calvinists (which should be answered from Scripture) are these:

1. Are all human beings sinners by birth and by choice?

2. Knowing this did God have a plan of salvation for mankind even before creation?

3. Did that plan include the necessity of the Lamb of God taking away THE SIN OF THE WORLD?

4. Does the Bible say this or not :For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.?

5. Should that one statement by the Savior not be sufficient to NULLIFY unconditional election?
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#22
Jul 18, 2017
24,451
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#22
celib said:
Hi, One of those dead guys is Christ and he is the author of the Bible, why don't you study that book, did you know there was an earth age before this one where satan rebelled? did you know that there was a judgment after the rebellion and satan was sentenced to parish.Eze.28, did you know everyone else was judged and some were found to be righteous. Romans.8, did you know that rather then destroy 2 third of his children God said let us make man in our image, and here we are trying to save some of those 2 third.
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And did you know that all of this stated above is PURE SPECULATION (not to mention incorrect)?
Where in the Scripture does it say there are no elects?
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Where in Scripture does it say that God elects some for salvation and others for damnation?
I would like to debate you on the subject from the Scripture...
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Since you take PURE SPECULATION as Gospel truth, how can you possibly debate this subject?
 
C

celib

Banned
#23
Jun 6, 2015
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#23
Nehemiah6 said:
And did you know that all of this stated above is PURE SPECULATION (not to mention incorrect)?

Where in Scripture does it say that God elects some for salvation and others for damnation?

Since you take PURE SPECULATION as Gospel truth, how can you possibly debate this subject?
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I didn't write to you but since you want to debate let's, I said I wanted to debate from the Scriptures, I see no Scripture from you, just your opinion, I didn't say God elects some people for salvation and others to damnation you did, where is that written?????
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#24
Jul 18, 2017
24,451
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#24
celib said:
I didn't say God elects some people for salvation and others to damnation you did, where is that written?????
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That's written in the Westminster Confession of Faith as well as the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith. And that is what this thread is discussing. So what was your question regarding "the elect"? Election and predestination are indeed Bible doctrines, but not as presented by Calvinism (Reformed Theology). Where exactly do you stand?
 
O

OtherWay210

Guest
#25
#25
Nehemiah6 your not the Judge so no one cares . The thread is not about your personal beliefs or dis-beliefs .

Maybe make a separate thread about your rants on Calvinism or whatever church of Christians you want to attack . There should be no divisions among the brothers. Satan is the one who does that sort of thing . divide is what Satan keeps doing based off of what ?

I notice celib asked to talk about scriptures. And for you to offer a point of discussion.
If not, why bother ?

 
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oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#26
Jul 28, 2012
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#26
celib said:
I didn't write to you but since you want to debate let's, I said I wanted to debate from the Scriptures, I see no Scripture from you, just your opinion, I didn't say God elects some people for salvation and others to damnation you did, where is that written?????
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If you wish to study scripture, I offered to study Romans 9. Perhaps you would like to start there.
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#27
Jul 28, 2012
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#27
celib said:
Hi, One of those dead guys is Christ and he is the author of the Bible, why don't you study that book, did you know there was an earth age before this one where satan rebelled? did you know that there was a judgment after the rebellion and satan was sentenced to parish.Eze.28, did you know everyone else was judged and some were found to be righteous. Romans.8, did you know that rather then destroy 2 third of his children God said let us make man in our image, and here we are trying to save some of those 2 third. Where in the Scripture does it say there are no elects? I would like to debate you on the subject from the Scripture, not what Calvin said or Murray said but what the Bible says. God bless
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You definitely need someone to study the Bible with you.
 
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Depleted

Guest
#28
#28
oldhermit said:
I do hope you will respond. I prefer to discuss with someone who can give a response, not to a bunch of dead guys. I know that much has been written in defense of this doctrine and I have read many of these works but still, these authors are merely offering a string of opinions on scripture. The Jews did the same thing to the Law of Moses and Jesus summed up centuries of their collective rabbinic opinions in one sentence - "You make the Law God of no effect." I would like to hear how you think scripture defends the doctrine of unconditional election. Since the Calvinist rely so much on Romans 9 to defend this doctrine perhaps we could look at this chapter together.
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So far, you have managed to cut out any source you want to not deal with, including Calvinists and including "dead guys."

There is nothing left to discuss. The Bible was written by a bunch of dead guys.

So, no. Really what you think you're doing is persuading one naive young lady into your way of seeing things. Three flaws in that:
1. I'm not naive.
2. I'm not young.
3. I'm not a lady.

Sorry, I do believe in dead guys. I do believe the Bible. And, I most certainly do not believe every generation has to reinvent the wheel. It's been proven for 400+ years. It doesn't have to be discussed under your myopic terms, and bingo! You most certainly aren't into hearing it, or you wouldn't have already dismissed every Calvinists by saying we have no grasp on scripture.

I've read fairly long papers from you trying to prove something. I admit it. John Murray is above my brain skills. I can't read him. (Well, I can, but I can't understand him all the time.) But I know this much about him -- he proved his point, (and with scripture, despite you claiming we don't), and if you're just going to dismiss him because he's dead? There is nothing to discuss, because you don't want to learn. You want me to submissively learn from you. And Paul is dead too!

See first flaw again for why that won't work.

I do admit I am a slow learner. All this time I've known you, and I thought you considered me an equal, as I considered you an equal. Lo and behold, you consider yourself a mighty "living" teacher out to convert others, especially the lessers -- which now includes Calvinists, babes in Christ, and Christian women. All three were already converted -- by Christ!

Celib started this post because he found a teaching on YouTube he agreed with and wanted to share. If you are sincere about studying Romans 9 with Calvinists, then start that thread. I, for one, believe this is a game to you to try and convert Calvinists into believing whatever you believe. I like games, but not the ones where it's all about playing with scripture, so I won't play. But if you are sincere about this, then start that thread and let anyone who wants to go along with the game join you.

I consider myself a 60 watt light bulb. Not the brightest, by a shot, but not the dullest either. I can prove Romans 8 and 9, (because it really starts at 8, and only 8, after the prelude of 1-8.5, not at 9), with you hands down. Be aware there are better-than-60-watts on this forum. But if you're so sure you can convert me, prove it, by converting the ones willing to play this game.
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#29
Jul 28, 2012
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#29
This has nothing to do with whether or not I regard you as an equal. This is about a difference on opinion on a particular doctrine. Then would you like to start with Romans 8?
 
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D

Depleted

Guest
#30
#30
oldhermit said:
You definitely need someone to study the Bible with you.
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Agreed, however, you're not into "studying" the Bible. You're out to teach people your opinions.
 
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Depleted

Guest
#31
#31
OtherWay210 said:
Nehemiah6 your not the Judge so no one cares . The thread is not about your personal beliefs or dis-beliefs .

Maybe make a separate thread about your rants on Calvinism or whatever church of Christians you want to attack . There should be no divisions among the brothers. Satan is the one who does that sort of thing . divide is what Satan keeps doing based off of what ?

I notice celib asked to talk about scriptures. And for you to offer a point of discussion.
If not, why bother ?
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Because Neh's whole "gospel" is "Calvinism bad." :)
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#32
Jul 28, 2012
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#32
Depleted said:
Agreed, however, you're not into "studying" the Bible. You're out to teach people your opinions.
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Perhaps you could first present your ideas on chapter 8 and explain how you feel this defends the doctrine of unconditional election.
 
S

Speak2Me

Banned
#33
Sep 14, 2017
900
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#33
Well, I'm convinced that calvinists are incorrect simply because they had opportunity to post their scripture as evidence & instead argued with a whole lot of nothing. That's what most cults/occults do.

If someone doesn't like this, they could always PROVE us wrong.

There's your door of opportunity. Open it, or walk away.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#34
#34
oldhermit said:
Well, I still consider you a friend. Is your change of opinion because you like Murray or is it simply because you choose to defend the doctrine of unconditional election?
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Notice, if it is her groupies who are telling people they have no idea of scripture. Or tells them they need to study, She is all over it, and likes all their posts and defends them. (See the gods will s freewill thread)

But since you have done it against her, It is a Major sin, and you are pretty much hated on.

hypocricy at its finest.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#35
#35
Has anyone watched it isit another fatalistic view?

I think everyone believes God elects. It is in scripture. Where we disagree is how or what is the process in which he elects his children.
 
Iconoclast

Iconoclast

Senior Member
#37
May 27, 2017
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#37
eternally-gratefull said:
Notice, if it is her groupies who are telling people they have no idea of scripture. Or tells them they need to study, She is all over it, and likes all their posts and defends them. (See the gods will s freewill thread)

But since you have done it against her, It is a Major sin, and you are pretty much hated on.

hypocricy at its finest.
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This off topic post is yet another attack post. is that all you do? Non stop attack of believers?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#38
#38
Iconoclast said:
This off topic post is yet another attack post. is that all you do? Non stop attack of believers?
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Excuse me dude, But she is the one who attacked a man because he said something about what he believed.

You people do not like to be called out. Stop doing what your doing.

 
blue_ladybug

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
#40
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
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#40
Haven't read this entire thread. Who are you talking about?

eternally-gratefull said:
Excuse me dude, But she is the one who attacked a man because he said something about what he believed.

You people do not like to be called out. Stop doing what your doing.

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