GOD'S GRACE IS UNMERITED
- Thread starter joaniemarie
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
What is it you wanted to clarify exactly ?
There are a lot of people who think they worked the works of repentance that brought them to Christ.
From your words you seem to be one of those.
But to think one of those two things or both means you don't understand, fully, the process of Salvation. Which isn't to insult you. I don't think any of us truly understand fully, yet.
John 6:44-45
[FONT="]44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.[/FONT]
[FONT="]45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Even repentance is the work of God. He draws us and causes us to work to try and earn Salvation and be pleasing to Him.
Because we don't know any better to begin with. Our carnal mind is enmity to Him.
Which is what Joaniemarie was saying to begin with, I think.[/FONT]
No, what you want to disprove is:
Luke 24:
45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, 47 and that repentance for[c] the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
And:
Matthew 6:4
so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
Let me know when you think you have disproved the word of God, don't tell me what my point of view is, there is no need to do that, I have quoted my point of view using some parts of The Bible.
Luke 24:
45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, 47 and that repentance for[c] the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
And:
Matthew 6:4
so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
Let me know when you think you have disproved the word of God, don't tell me what my point of view is, there is no need to do that, I have quoted my point of view using some parts of The Bible.
No, what you want to disprove is:
Luke 24:
45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, 47 and that repentance for[c] the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
And:
Matthew 6:4
so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
Let me know when you think you have disproved the word of God, don't tell me what my point of view is, there is no need to do that, I have quoted my point of view using some parts of The Bible.
Luke 24:
45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, 47 and that repentance for[c] the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
And:
Matthew 6:4
so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
Let me know when you think you have disproved the word of God, don't tell me what my point of view is, there is no need to do that, I have quoted my point of view using some parts of The Bible.
Just your understanding of it.
1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
Charity,love in action,is greater than faith.
1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
Paul said without charity,we are nothing,and err from the faith.
Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James said without charity,our faith is dead.
1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
John said without charity,the love of God does not dwell in us.
Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
1Th 3:12 And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:
1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.
We cannot hate one person,but love all people.We have to have charity with all people,or there is no faith.
Charity is greater than faith.No charity,no faith.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Some people at this Church left their first love,which is love of people,and they were fallen,and Jesus told them to repent,and do the first works,or there is no salvation,for He would remove their candlestick out of his place,except they repent.
So it is obvious that some can lack charity,and then their faith is dead,which is what James pointed out,have charity,works of love,or your faith is dead.
Charity is greater than faith.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Faith works by love,so we have to have charity,love in action,before faith can apply.
No charity,no faith,and we must have charity with all people,even our enemies,and if we hate even one person,or do not care about them according to the Bible,then we lack charity,then we lack faith.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.
We are saved by grace through faith,so we have to have faith to have grace apply.
If we lack in charity,then our faith is dead,we have no grace,and no salvation.
Charity is greater than love.
Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
1Sa 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
1Sa 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
2Co 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.
We love God,and people,and to lack that love our faith would be dead.
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Abraham did the work of God,and his faith was made perfect,for a person is justified by works,and not faith alone,for love is greater than faith.
Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Rahab did the work of helping the 2 Jewish men,and she was justified by her works,for love is greater than faith.
Without works of love towards God,and people,then faith is dead,and it is not a part time thing,but all the time,and every thought must be to the obedience of Christ,and we cannot hate one person,but care about them all,even our enemies.
To lack is to not have faith.
Love God.God hates sin,and wants us to abstain from sin by the Spirit,to be right with Him.Sin does affect our relationship with God.
1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
1Co 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
Charity is not selfish,not arrogant,does not think an evil thought,and does not sin.
1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness(monetary,material): from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
Act 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Act 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
God only blesses with our needs,not our wants,and to help other people with their needs,and to lack charity,faith is dead.
Love does not think an evil thought,and does not sin,and helps the poor and needy,for we love God,and love people,and to lack and hold unto sin,and care about our wants,and things of the world,then our faith is dead,and there is no salvation.
Charity is greater than faith.
Lack in charity,faith is dead,no grace,and no salvation.
There are a lot of people that hold unto sin,as you can observe among many,and care about their wants,liking things of the world,that believe they are alright,but that is a lack of love,so their faith would be dead.
Charity is greater than faith,lack in love towards God by holding unto sin,and denying what the Spirit wants us to do,then faith is dead,and cater to our wants,and things of the world,and not help the poor and needy,then our faith is dead.
They say faith alone,but it is love that saves us,for without love we are nothing,and err from the faith,and our faith is dead,and the love of God does not dwell in us.
Charity is greater than faith,and everything we do stems from love,for love is the fulfilling of the law.
Charity,love in action,is greater than faith.
1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
Paul said without charity,we are nothing,and err from the faith.
Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James said without charity,our faith is dead.
1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
John said without charity,the love of God does not dwell in us.
Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
1Th 3:12 And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:
1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.
We cannot hate one person,but love all people.We have to have charity with all people,or there is no faith.
Charity is greater than faith.No charity,no faith.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Some people at this Church left their first love,which is love of people,and they were fallen,and Jesus told them to repent,and do the first works,or there is no salvation,for He would remove their candlestick out of his place,except they repent.
So it is obvious that some can lack charity,and then their faith is dead,which is what James pointed out,have charity,works of love,or your faith is dead.
Charity is greater than faith.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Faith works by love,so we have to have charity,love in action,before faith can apply.
No charity,no faith,and we must have charity with all people,even our enemies,and if we hate even one person,or do not care about them according to the Bible,then we lack charity,then we lack faith.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.
We are saved by grace through faith,so we have to have faith to have grace apply.
If we lack in charity,then our faith is dead,we have no grace,and no salvation.
Charity is greater than love.
Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
1Sa 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
1Sa 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
2Co 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.
We love God,and people,and to lack that love our faith would be dead.
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Abraham did the work of God,and his faith was made perfect,for a person is justified by works,and not faith alone,for love is greater than faith.
Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Rahab did the work of helping the 2 Jewish men,and she was justified by her works,for love is greater than faith.
Without works of love towards God,and people,then faith is dead,and it is not a part time thing,but all the time,and every thought must be to the obedience of Christ,and we cannot hate one person,but care about them all,even our enemies.
To lack is to not have faith.
Love God.God hates sin,and wants us to abstain from sin by the Spirit,to be right with Him.Sin does affect our relationship with God.
1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
1Co 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
Charity is not selfish,not arrogant,does not think an evil thought,and does not sin.
1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness(monetary,material): from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
Act 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Act 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
God only blesses with our needs,not our wants,and to help other people with their needs,and to lack charity,faith is dead.
Love does not think an evil thought,and does not sin,and helps the poor and needy,for we love God,and love people,and to lack and hold unto sin,and care about our wants,and things of the world,then our faith is dead,and there is no salvation.
Charity is greater than faith.
Lack in charity,faith is dead,no grace,and no salvation.
There are a lot of people that hold unto sin,as you can observe among many,and care about their wants,liking things of the world,that believe they are alright,but that is a lack of love,so their faith would be dead.
Charity is greater than faith,lack in love towards God by holding unto sin,and denying what the Spirit wants us to do,then faith is dead,and cater to our wants,and things of the world,and not help the poor and needy,then our faith is dead.
They say faith alone,but it is love that saves us,for without love we are nothing,and err from the faith,and our faith is dead,and the love of God does not dwell in us.
Charity is greater than faith,and everything we do stems from love,for love is the fulfilling of the law.
O good, I have been right in all I have said, thank you for making clear.
I didn't try to correct you because it is obvious that correction is not well received by you and I don't like wasting words.
