GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

[LoveGodForever]

Sorry MarcR, here is a re-post so it is easier to read...

Hi MarcR,

Great post for discussion. Some comments for your consideration

Ro 8:1-11
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
KJV

Love those scriptures in Romans 8 they are some of my favourite in the book of Romans outlining the expereinece of the NEW Covenant.

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

What does it mean to walk after the flesh? I believe that it is trying to please God by our own actions and efforts.

Yes and no MarcR. The greek Word for flesh G4561. sarx is the carnal human nature, human being; flesh that is CARNAL or CARNALLY MINDED with all it's frailties both physically or morally. So to me not to walk in the flesh not to walk in SIN because sin originates in the mind first before it is manifest in action.

You know the scriptures that Jesus says; Whosoever shall look on a women to lust and even if you are angry with your brother you have already comittedf SIN (Matthew 5:22; 27)

The NEW Covenant is a NEW HEART and MIND of those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. THOSE who by FAITH BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD are those who it is written are BORN AGAIN; where God writes His LAW of LOVE in the HEART (Carnal mind) as those who BELIEVE have FAITH in the promises of God's Word. LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in those who walk by FAITH in the SPIRIT (God's WORD) and not in the FLESH (Sinful carnal mind).

Please read Ezekiel 11:19; 36:26; Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10; Romans 8:4
If you are still practicing SIN however you are still in your sins and have not seen him or KNOW him (1 John 2:3-4)

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

What is the Law of sin and death? I believe that it is the Law of Moses including the 10 commandments.

It is God's LAW (the 10 commandments). The 10 commandments are the LAW of SIN and DEATH because God's LAW gives us the knowledge of good and evil. They are the standard of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS. They make nothing perfect they only testify what is SIN and what is RIGHTEOUSNESS (Romans 3:20; James 2:11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4).

The LAW of the Spirit of LIFE in Christ Jesus RIGHTEOUSNESS by FAITH in the WORD of GOD. (see John 6:62)

If our FAITH however does not have the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE to God's LAW (written on the heart) then you are still in your SINS and do not KNOW him who is calling you (James 2:18; 20; 26; 1 John 3:6-8)

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

What could the Law not do? I believe it could not bring people into right relationship with God.

Absolutely MarcR as I have agreed already in point 2 above this. God's LAW is the knowledge of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS. It does not make anything prefect but gives us the knowledge of Good and Evil.

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

In following the leading of the indwelling Holy Spirit, The righteousness of the Law (what you hope to attain by trying to keep the Law) is fulfilled in us who don't try to keep the Law (because we believe God, who says we are not able to keep it to His standard) but allow the Holy Spirit to impart the righteousness that we can't earn.

Yes indeed. Walking in the Spirit means to be WALKING by FAITH in God's WORD. If the son shall make you free you shall be free indeed. If you are living a life of KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN then you are NOT walking in the SPIRIT of God and are still in your SINS. God's LAW is the mirror that show us who we are at any given point in time.

No mirror = no sin = no Savior = no salvation.

God's LAW is the schoolmaster that leads us to Chirst that we might be justified by faith. Once you are justified by faith you are no longer "Under the Law" because your sins have been forgiven and cleansed and you are free to walk in newness of life. If anyone however SINS again they are once again "UNDER the LAW" because they have SINNED and stand guilty before God. Christ is the end of the law to all those who BELIEVE>>>>

God's LAW >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christ the LAMB of God who takes away the SINS of the World

The one leads to the other and cannot be separated.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

They who feel the need to earn points with God are those who are after the flesh. They who depend on the indwelling Spirit of God instead of a rulebook for our righteousness are they who are after the Spirit.

Those that are after the CARNAL or SINNFUL MIND FOLLOW the SINFUL MIND which leads to SIN. Those that are after the SPIRIT (WORD OF GOD) FOLLOW the WORD OF GOD that leads to Holiness or the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE through FAITH

Rom 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Rom 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord (the Word of God is our Savior).

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
What does it mean to be carnally minded? IMO it means deciding for myself what will please God instead of believing what God has said about it. What does it mean to be spiritually minded? I believe it means believing that I cant earn my relationship with God; and trusting Him to do for me what I can't do for myself.

To be CARNALLY minded means to live in the SINFUL mind. A SINFUL MIND (breaking God's Commandments) is what defiles a man and the wages of SIN is death (Rom 6:23; Matthew 5:22; 27; Matthew 15:18-20)

Matthew 5
22, But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

and again...

27, Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28, But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

and again on the CARNAL or SINFUL MIND...

Matthew 15
16, And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
17, Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
18, But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19, For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20, These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

It is SIN that will keep ALL who practice it OUT of the KINGDOM of HEAVEN and is why Jesus says; Truly, truly I say unto you unless a man is BORN again he cannot see the KINGDOM of HEAVEN (not see also mean not enter or KNOW)

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

If you don't believe God, who tells you that you can't keep the Law to His standard, what can you expect to gain by trying?

Agreed. It means you must seek the Savior to save you and keep you from falling and by FAITH make you are partaker of the divine nature (Jude 1:24; 2 Peter 1:4; 1 John 5:4)

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Those who try to earn their way fall short.

If you are living in SIN (CARNAL MIND) you cannot please GOD. The mind must be changed to LOVE GOD (Romans 12:2)

Romans 12
1, I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2, And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

We who realize that we can't earn our way and depend on God to do it for us have His Holy Spirit within us to cause us to want to please God and to enable us to please Him.

If you are living in a SINFUL MIND then you do not know GOD......

1 John 3
6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness

The body is dead in the sense that we recognize it as powerless to do anything good on its own.

Yes indeed but if you are STILL in your SINS you do not KNOW HIM and need to seek HIM who loves all in REPENTANCE AND FORGIVENESS so that he can make you free to FOLLOW him in LOVE. ONLY FAITH that works by LOVE can fulfill the LAW in those who walk in HIS SPIRIT (Word) Please read 1 John 3:7-8; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 1 John 2:1; 1 John 1:9; John 3:16-21)

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Only what God has done for us and in us is important.

Absolutely. Only those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God are his people. Those that are still in their SINS have neither seen him or KNOW him.

IN times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

 

[LoveGodForever]

Here's where they deceive themselves, or are deceived otherwise. There is no church history that supports their works salvation message, observance of the law, or of the Sabbath to obtain salvation and eternal life.

This was all denounced in Galatians, Colossians, Titus, 1 & 2 Timothy, Romans et al. The orthodox church followed the Gospel of grace, and consequently preached free grace and the Doctrines of Grace!

Of course some have come along throughout history to detract from the finished work of Christ, to implement law observance, showing their belief is based upon a view that the work of Christ is incomplete. The elect, however, will not be deceived. These deceivers aren't "following the word of God, not the traditions of man!" as they self-proclaim, instead they have been ensnared by a lie.

God has allowed these types throughout history. Ellen G. White is one of note, and even her unfulfilled lying prophecies, which prove she is not of God are not enough to open the eyes of her followers to the truth of the Gospel; note 2 Corinthians 4:1-4ff.

The snare these workers are in is witnessed by their employment of phrases such as "Mainstream Christian beliefs!" or "Are you going to follow the Word of God or traditions of man?" and such like, all used as derogatory statements to malign and belittle others who have trusted in Christ.

Their gospel and spin on the law is nothing new, it is the old lie of works, keep the law, obey the Sabbath, and toss in the work of Christ (which obviously fell short of perfecting forever those who are being sanctified according to their gospel) = salvation.

Whenever Christ is not enough (and he is not enough in their heretical gospel, no matter how they spin it, and spin it they do) then you know you're looking at a false gospel, an old lie repackaged, something Paul taught against in Scripture, warning the flock.

Here is what this great apostle did; he preached against those who would draw disciples after themselves; Acts 20:28,29,30ff showing the sectarian thought and divisiveness that would arise against "Mainstream Christianity" itself from those within the church.

See the problem?

All this had already been dealt with as Acts 20 shows, false disciples always come against the church, they always seek to draw disciples away from the flock, what these same derogate as "main stream" and "traditions of men."

These people must be miserable inside. Self-righteous. They are not happy unless they deceive others as per Galatians.

There is nothing good or true about their good news at all. It is fake news, not good news. It is nothing short of the damning law, a law that could never save one soul of the OT nor in the history of man.

Hello preacher4truth,

Now your post aboave is simply a strawman because NO ONE here in this thread has ever said to anyone that they are saved by the works of the LAW. In fact all through the thread it is only ever stated that we are saved by GRACE through FAITH and not of ourselves it is a GIFT of GOD and not of WORKS lest any man should boast.

ANYONE saying differently is simply bearing false witness and needs to seek God's forgiveness.

It is very interesting as we look at mainstream religious teachers and rulers in the days of Jesus also believed that if anyone BELIEVED and FOLLOWED Jesus they were DECEIVED (John 7:47)

Many do not know it but it is SIN that deceives many. They think they can continue in SIN and still call themselves a BELIEVER of Christ but never FOLLOWED him and when it will be too late they will cry LORD LORD, He will say DEPART from ME you who WORK SIN I never knew you (Matthew 7:21-23). SIN will DECEIVE many in that day.

Those that are deceived are those that do not BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. These are those who it is written of;

Only God's Word is true as it is written; God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged (Romans 3:4). ONLY God's Word is true and we should BELIVE and FOLLOW it.

yep sin will deceive many........

1 Corinthians 6
9, Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Galatains 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

2Tim 3:13
But evil <sinful> men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

If you are still in your sins you are deceived in deed....
Titus 3:3
For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

Now if you are still in your sins how can you know the Gospel of Grace?

God's Word clearly says warns us about those who are DECEIVED...........

1 John 3
6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7, Little children, let no man DECEIVE you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8, He that committeth sin is of the devil;

and again.......

Jam 1:22
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, DECEIVING your own selves.

Do you know the scriptures P4T?

...........

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

 

[Jackson123]

Hello Jackson you are a funny one indeed. You still do not get it do you? lightbearer asked you that question because they are all a part of the 10 commandmments.

How many commandments are in God's 10 commandments? (Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13; 10:4)

...........

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

you reverse It brother, Jesus say all the law is hang oN love.


matt 22

37

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. ​

38

This is the first and great commandment. ​

39

And the second ​

is

like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. ​

40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

​

41

While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, ​

42

Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, ​

The Son

of David. ​

43

He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord,​

 

[Beez]

I'm sorry, guys. I know my exit from this thread (again) is no big deal to you, and you should not care! But I hate arguing. I'm not used to it, and I don't want to get used to it.

So I will state my beliefs once more, then I will go back to the opening post and copy what I THOUGHT was stated there by LoveGodForever.

___________________________________________________________________________________

I believe that my Redeemer lives, And at the last He will take His stand on the earth. "Even after my skin is destroyed, Yet from my flesh I shall see G-D, Whom I myself shall behold, And whom my eyes will see and not another.
I believe in salvation by grace because of G-D's Sovereign gift of faith, not because of any faith I could possibly produce on my own.
I believe I am imperfect and thus a sinner but that G-D sees me through the death of His Son, Jesus, Yeshua HaMashiach, the Perfect Sacrifice, and His continuing advocacy before the Father, I am accepted as His work, thus I am held as innocent, which is both a perplexing and glorious wonder to me.
I believe I shall stand before Him and be welcomed into that final place with Him, to live forever in His presence.
I believe that if it happens that my body is eventually destroyed, yet I shall see G-D.

 

[Beez]

LoveGodForever​

,
* I do not believe that any of the Ten Words have been abolished:
* I believe they all still stand, are relevant, and are intended to be obeyed for all time.
* I do not believe that G-D has changed His mind regarding any of them.
* I do not believe that any covenant ever rendered any previously-given covenant inactive.
* I believe that we cannot do some of the Laws because we, as the human race, neglected, rejected, and argued against G-d, calling them too burdensome (while the Bible says clearly they were not hard) so we were exiled from the Land.

LoveGodForever​

,

You almost quoted

​

COL. 2 [16]

Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY, or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAY(S) <plural>:

​

​

לילה טוב


​

​

​

 

[Nehemiah6]

I do not believe that any covenant ever rendered any previously-given covenant inactive.

Why don't you carefully study Paul's epistle to the Hebrews, then come back and tell us "Sorry, I was mistaken. The Old Covenant is indeed null and void, and the New Covenant is in force now". It would be refreshing to see a Christian go back to the Word and then admit error.

 

[Beez]

לילה טוב
​

​

Sorry -- my computer started doing Hebrew and I couldn't figure out how to make it stop. I had to turn the computer off in the middle of what I was typing . . . so I got dinner.

I am not trying to ignore your request, LoveGodForever. Give me a few minutes. Thank you.

 

[LoveGodForever]

you reverse It brother, Jesus say all the law is hang oN love.
matt 22
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
39And the second
is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.41While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
42Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him,
The Son of David.
43He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord,

Hello Jackson,

Well that is not true at all.

I do not reverse anything and never have. I have always said love is the fulfilling of God's LAW. (Romans 13:8-10) to those who walk by faith in God's Word. If you do not know God's Word how can you have Faith and be free to LOVE? If you SIN against GOD or your fellow man (break God's commandments) you are not free to LOVE and those that do not LOVE do not KNOW God for God is LOVE.....

What do you think the scripture you quoted above means from Matthew 22:36-40?

LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF GOD’S LAW TO THOSE WHO HAVE FAITH

You cannot separate God’s Law of love from the 10 commandments because they are connected to each other. There is no need for confusion here. God’s Word makes it very clear.

Let's have a look................................................

What does Jesus say when he talk about the commandments. Jesus is quoting from Old testament scriptures of Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18.................

Matthew 22
36, Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37, Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38, This is the first and great commandment.
39, And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
40, ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

Let's get clearer......................................................

Matthew 19
16, And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17, And he said unto him, Why call thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: BUT IF YOU WILL ENTER INTO LIFE KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.
18, He saith unto him, WHICH? JESUS SAID, THOU SHALT NOT MURDER, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, HONOR YOU MOTHER AND FATHER AND THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF
20, The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21, Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. <Jesus showed him that he may have fulfilled His duty of love to his neighbor but not to God breaking commandment 1 and 2 loving riches more than God>

Well Jesus makes it very clear that what he is talking about it is the 10 commandments of God's Law.

What about James................................................................

James 2
8, If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF, ye do well:
9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10, FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL KEEP THE WHOLE LAW AND YET OFFEND IN ONE POINT, HE SHALL BE GUILTY OF ALL.
11, FOR HE THAT SAID, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY SAID ALSO DO NOT KILL. NOW IF YOU DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY AND YOU KILL, YOU HAVE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW.
12, So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Well James makes it very clear what he is talking about when he talks about the Royal Law of love. He is talking about the 10 commandments. So Jesus and James both agree that they are talking about God's 10 commandments which also include the 4th commandment which is one of the ten.

What about Paul? He wrote a lot of books in God's Word...........................

Romans 13
8, Owe no man anything, but to LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW.
9, For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and IF THERE SHALL BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF.
10, Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

Paul makes it very clear what he is talking about as well when he is talking about God's Law. It seems like Jesus, James and Paul all agree together what it is they are referring to when talking about God's Law. They are all referring to God's 10 commandments which includes the 4th commandment which is one of the ten (Exodus 20:1-17)

So now that God's Word shows us what it is referring to. No need to guess what are talking about, God’s Law of Love is what fulfills God's 10 commandments in those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word. It is only through Faith that works by love that anyone can walk in the Spirit which produces the FRUIT OF OBEDIENCE because LOVE is the fulfilling of God’s Law in those that walk by faith and not by sight.

1 John 4
6, We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
7, Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8, He that loveth not knoweth not God; for GOD IS LOVE

1 John 5
3, For this is the LOVE of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

John 14
15, If you LOVE me keep my commandments

Yes seems like James and John and Paul all agree with Jesus that on the two GREAT commandments of LOVE hand all the LAW and the prophets.

God's people walk in LOVE and LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW written on the HEART in those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW the Word of God because they have FAITH in him who saves them....

This is the NEW Covenant of God's LAW written on the HEARTS and MIND of those who BELIEVE so they are NOW FREE TO LOVE HIM who FIRST LOVED US and it is LOVE the FULFILLS God's LAW.

These are God's people....

Revelation 12
17, And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

who are God's people...........

Revelation 14
12, Here is the patience of the SAINTS: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 14
14, Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. ...........

Now Jackson how can you know him when you do not know the Word of God? How will you hear Him when he is calling you? How will you know him from those that do not want you to follow him? How will you find the way when the road is narrow?

IN times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

 

[Beez]

Hello gb9 and Beez,

Please show me in the OP where it says that the Sabbath or any of God's 10 commandments saves anyone?

If you cannot show me such claims, is this statement saying that the OP says that we are saved by keeping the Sabbath or any of the 10 commandments that you are making above, bearing FALSE WITNESS against your neigbor?

I will leave this between you and God. SIN is the transgrssion of God's LAW all who KNOWINGLY pracrtice UNTREPENTANT SIN will not enter the Kingdom of heaven....

You are right: you did not write that Sabbath saves anyone (from my lite rereading of the opening and second posts): you wrote here, and in subsequent posts, that not practicing Sabbath is sinning; thus, not observing Sabbath is damning.

You continued,

. . . Those who practice SIN will NOT enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. Many we say to him in that day that they were his Followers but He will say to many depart from my you who practice SIN I never knew you.

SIN is the transgression of God's LAW. You break anyone of them you are "Under the Law" and stand guilty before God in SIN and need to SEEK him who LOVES you.

You almost quoted

COL. 2 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY, or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAY(S) <plural>:

In my opinion, you changed this Scripture when you changed (SABBATH DAY(S) <plural>) this to plural. It is not plural. If it were, we could possibly assume that it intended the weekly Sabbath and/or the festival sabbaths. But it is singular in English. It is singular in Greek. And it refers to the singular in Hebrew. Furthermore, in both Greek and Hebrew, it solidly refers to the weekly Sabbath.

This is how you can hold to Sabbath and skirt the other parts of the Law, rendering them as of no importance.

So, since I am still up, I will bring this up:
You wrote:

. . . Name calling and slander is not a fruit of the Spirit of LOVE and is not the Word of God. If you have lost your Word how will you find your way when the way is dark and narrow?

Then you wrote:

Only those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW the Word of God are his people. He who sees, sees all. How can you being evil do good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

Those that be whole do not need a physician but those that are sick. By their fruits you will know them. Love is a fruit. Those that love have met the physician.

The mirror shows the way that all must look into it and see themselves. Then we can see the one who loves us and know the one who is calling us. It is the small voice behind us saying this is the way walk you in it. It is hard to kick against the pricks….

Do you know the scriptures gb9?

As I read the above post, I saw name-calling, slander, and manipulation, LoveGodForever. You used the Scriptures to call gb9 “evil” and “sick.” Do you not see this? The other slander was in the rest of your statements.

We, as believers, have learned how to split hairs, in order to get to the nitty-gritty of what to believe, but when we use the same tactics to put people down, we err against them.

I so strongly dislike bringing this up LoveGodForever. It is very disconcerting.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Hello Beez,

Some comments for your consideration below in BLUE below.........

Originally Posted by LoveGodForever

Hello gb9 and Beez,

Please show me in the OP where it says that the Sabbath or any of God's 10 commandments saves anyone?

If you cannot show me such claims, is this statement saying that the OP says that we are saved by keeping the Sabbath or any of the 10 commandments that you are making above, bearing FALSE WITNESS against your neigbor?

I will leave this between you and God. SIN is the transgrssion of God's LAW all who KNOWINGLY pracrtice UNTREPENTANT SIN will not enter the Kingdom of heaven....

You are right: you did not write that Sabbath saves anyone (from my lite rereading of the opening and second posts): you wrote here, and in subsequent posts, that not practicing Sabbath is sinning; thus, not observing Sabbath is damning.

So is this your apology of accusing me of saying something that I did not? Nice apology thanks.

You continued,

Originally Posted by LoveGodForever

. . . Those who practice SIN will NOT enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. Many we say to him in that day that they were his Followers but He will say to many depart from my you who practice SIN I never knew you.

SIN is the transgression of God's LAW. You break anyone of them you are "Under the Law" and stand guilty before God in SIN and need to SEEK him who LOVES you.

And this is not God's Word why? Please read 1 John 3:4; James 2:8-12; Romans 3:19; Isaiah 55:6-7.

You almost quoted

Originally Posted by LoveGodForever

COL. 2 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY, or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAY(S) <plural>:

In my opinion, you changed this Scripture when you changed (SABBATH DAY(S) <plural>) this to plural. It is not plural. If it were, we could possibly assume that it intended the weekly Sabbath and/or the festival sabbaths. But it is singular in English. It is singular in Greek. And it refers to the singular in Hebrew. Furthermore, in both Greek and Hebrew, it solidly refers to the weekly Sabbath. This is how you can hold to Sabbath and skirt the other parts of the Law, rendering them as of no importance.

Ok let's get to it.........

I did not change the scriptures at all. I do not know what bible version you are using but the GREEK renders the translation in Col 2:16 as plural meaning more then one Sabbath as the CONTEXT of the Chapter in in reference to the Ceremonial laws of Moses it is in reference to the annual festival Sabbaths (plural) there is more then one of them (Levitical 23)

Colossians 2:16-17 "Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a
new moon or a Sabbath day -- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."

The Greek word here is the plural, "sabbaths" [sabbaton (σαββατων)]. In itself that is not determinative. The plural in
the Hebrew language, which this Greek expression represents, is often used to show majestic or high regard for
something. The Creation Sabbath may be referred to in that way even though it is but one kind of Sabbath. But it is also
consistent with the fact that in the Levitical set of laws there are many different Sabbaths. The term "sabbaths" in this verse is surrounded by other examples of ritual laws all associated with the Levitical period prior to the coming of Christ eg. meat and drink offereings, New Moons, Festivals

The majority of Bibles translate the Greek translation of Colossians 2:16 for Sabbaths as plural?

[TABLE="class: bibles"]
[TR]
[TD](ACV) “new moon or Sabbaths,”
(Darby) “new moon, or sabbaths,”
(DRB) “new moon or of the sabbaths,”
(Geneva) “moone, or of the Sabbath dayes,”
(KJ2000) “moon, or of the sabbath days:”
(LONT) “new moon, or of sabbaths;”
(NET) “new moon, or Sabbath days -“
(NLT) “new-moon ceremonies or Sabbaths.”
(TMB) “new moon or the Sabbath days,”
(VW-Edition) “new moon or sabbaths,”
(WmsNT) “monthly feasts or sabbaths.”
[/TD]
[TD](ALT) “new moon [festival] or of Sabbaths,”
(Bishops) “moone, or of the Sabboth [dayes]:”
(EMTV) “new moon or of sabbaths,”
(IAV NC) “New Moon, or of the Sabbath Days:”
(KJV21) “new moon or the Sabbath days,”
(MKJV) “new moon, or of the sabbaths.”
(NIRV) “New Moons and Sabbath days.”
(NRSV) “new moons, or sabbaths.”
(TS98) “new moon or Sabbaths -“
(WCNT) “new moon, or of sabbaths,”
(WORNT) “new-moon, or sabbaths;”
[/TD]
[TD](BBE) “new moons or Sabbaths:”
(CAB) “new moon or of sabbaths,”
(GB) “moone, or of the Sabbath dayes,”
(KJV) “new moon, or of the sabbath days:”
(LITV) “new moon, or of sabbaths,”
(Murdock) “new moons, and sabbaths;”
(NKJV) “new moon or sabbaths,”
(RYLT-NT) “new moon, or of sabbaths,”
(Tyndale) “mone or of the sabboth dayes.”
(Webster) “new-moon, or of the sabbaths:”
(YLT) “new moon, or of sabbaths,”
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

This leaves only a minority of modern translations that don’t use plural for Colossians 2:16. But the big question is, do they mean “a weekly Sabbath day” or “a Ceremonial sabbath day” since they do not specifically say “The Sabbath” or the “weekly Sabbath”? (list below is not exhaustive or every translation)

[TABLE="class: bibles"]
[TR]
[TD="class: left8pt"](AMP) “New Moon or a Sabbath.”
(RSVA) “new moon or a sabbath.”[/TD]
[TD="class: left8pt"](ASV) “new moon or a sabbath day:”
(NIV) “New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.”[/TD]
[TD="class: left8pt"](NASB) “new moon or a Sabbath day“[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

So no I did not change the scripture meaning... another apology?

So, since I am still up, I will bring this up:
You wrote:

Originally Posted by LoveGodForever
. . . Name calling and slander is not a fruit of the Spirit of LOVE and is not the Word of God. If you have lost your Word how will you find your way when the way is dark and narrow?

Then you wrote:

Originally Posted by LoveGodForever

Only those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW the Word of God are his people. He who sees, sees all. How can you being evil do good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

Those that be whole do not need a physician but those that are sick. By their fruits you will know them. Love is a fruit. Those that love have met the physician.

The mirror shows the way that all must look into it and see themselves. Then we can see the one who loves us and know the one who is calling us. It is the small voice behind us saying this is the way walk you in it. It is hard to kick against the pricks….

Do you know the scriptures gb9?

As I read the above post, I saw name-calling, slander, and manipulation, LoveGodForever. You used the Scriptures to call gb9 “evil” and “sick.” Do you not see this? The other slander was in the rest of your statements.

Really? I thought I was saying do you know the scriptures?

We, as believers, have learned how to split hairs, in order to get to the nitty-gritty of what to believe, but when we use the same tactics to put people down, we err against them.

I so strongly dislike bringing this up LoveGodForever. It is very disconcerting.

By what he shared above I understand him more then you think. He teaches against God's LAW and Jesus says you shall know them by their fruits... and I'm not against him.. but judge righteous judgement according to God's Word..

I agree with you who am I? Do you know how often I ask GOD that same question..

Yet the Holy Spirit witnesses within and until that happens I can see where gb9's belief comes from... and speak no guile or malice but pure good intent toward him here.

I would be wrong to not share what I did and warn him and others of the Judgement to come, and mind me not for fearing GOD before man.. because I have to accept all humility but share in good Faith and the end of only GOD knows.

If I do not then I do not fulfill my duty of LOVE to God and my fellow man and the Blood of my neighbor God will require at my hand because I did not warn him...

Ezekiel 3
17, Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
18, When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
19, Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
20, Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
21, Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.

1 Timothy 5
20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

2 Timothy 4
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

Titus 1
13, This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith

Titus 2
13, Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14, Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
15, These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Jesus say....

Revelations 3
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

If you do not know God's Word how can you know your duty of LOVE towards another?

 

[LoveGodForever]

JUDGING RIGHTEOUS JUDGEMENT

What does it mean to judge righteous judgement?

Let's use God's Word as our guide................

Jesus says; If any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejects me, and receives not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day (John 12:47-48).

We are sinners and cannot judge anyone, neither do I judge you. Only God's Word can judge another this is why it is written..................

Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment (John 7:24).

There is only one good (Righteous) and that is God (Matthew 19:17). This is why the Word of God will judge us all in the last days and only the Word of God can judge RIGHTEOUSLY. So then we are permitted according to the scriptures to judge RIGHTEOUSLY according to God's Word.

All who follow him who LOVES all have a duty of LOVE to GOD and their FELLOW MAN to preach the GOSPEL (the WORD of God) because SIN will keep all who practice it OUT of God's KINGDOM. God's sheep hear HIS VOICE (the WORD = RIGHTEOUS JUDGEMENT)

Now God's Word says.........

He that says he KNOWS HIM and DOES NOT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS is a LIAR and the truth in NOT IN HIM (1 John 2:3-4)

So if someone is professing to be from God and does not teach or keep God's Commandments is it RIGHTEOUS Judgement to BELIEVE GOD'S WORD that this person is a LIAR and Does not KNOW God?

and again........

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-19)

Now if someone comes along and starts teaching against God's Law and the prophets is it RIGHTEOUS judgement to BELIEVE God's WORD and know that person is not following God's WORD?

and again......

Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither known him. (1 John 3:6)

Now if someone comes along and starts teaching that breaking God's law is OK, and KNOWINGLY breaks God's commandments is it RIGHTEOUS judgement to BELIEVE God's WORD and know that person is not following God's WORD and does NOT KNOW GOD?

and again......

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. (1 John 3:7-8)

Once again, if someone comes along and starts teaching that breaking God's law is OK, and KNOWINGLY breaks God's commandments is it RIGHTEOUS judgement to BELIEVE God's WORD and know that person is not following God's WORD and does NOT KNOW GOD and is following the Devil?

and again........

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Matthew 7:15-23)

Once again, if someone comes along and starts teaching that breaking God's law is OK, and KNOWINGLY breaks God's commandments is it RIGHTEOUS judgement to BELIEVE God's WORD and know that person is not following God's WORD and does NOT KNOW GOD and is following the Devil, and that person is a false prophet (messenger). If Jesus tells us that we shall know them by their fruit (SIN or OBEDIENCE) It is RIGHTEOUS JUDGEMENT to BELIEVE God's WORD?

Now we can go on and on but I think you get the point.......

Severe as it may sound it is the Word of God telling us that those who teach against God's Word including the 10 commandments are NOT BELIEVING God's Word. Now you can spin it any way you want to but at the end of the day it is God's Word not mine.

God's Word is RIGHTEOUS judgement and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW IT. UNBELIEVERS are those who do not BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word teaching against God's LAW (Matthew 5:19).

Now the scriptures teach and say this not me. Our part is to BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word. If we do not then we are UNBELIEVERS and in danger of the Judgement.

If I have LOVE to you as my neighbor and God has revealed His Word to me then I have a duty of LOVE to help my fellow man and warn him to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at hand because God is not willing that ANY should PERISH and not be saved (Ezekiel 3:17-21; 2 Peter 3:9).

Even though the scriptures may appear harsh sometimes they are written in LOVE to wake up those who may miss out on the blessings that God wants to give to all mankind.

Those who wish to FOLLOW God must REPENT and BELIEVE the Gospel. It is the Word of God if you here God's Word calling you BELIEVE and FOLLOW him who calls you....

God's sheep hear His Voice....

 

[lightbearer]

The Old Covenant is indeed null and void, and the New Covenant is in force now"..

This an very open ended statement though. Very dangerous thing to say without extensive commentary.
Do you mind expounding?

 

[lightbearer]

JUDGING RIGHTEOUS JUDGEMENT....

Good post my friend! Praise the LORD for HE is good!

And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
(Joh 12:47-48 KJV)

This is not directed to you or anyone in particular brother.

As you allude to it is the Word that judges not us.

Sadly when we share we all think we are right and on GOD's side. So when we start posting verses that pronounce judgement it is very offensive to those to whom we are speaking to even if we are only lovingly trying to show them that, what they think is not true and will only damn them. Typically when this happens the conversation usually ends up off track and is finished. And whatever hope there was to guide whoever through Christ back to Christ is lost. Because typically they go off on a tangent through the weight of the emotional onslaught and are not thinking clearly.

There is a time for this type admonition though. But in thinking this it might be close to the time when we are kicking the dust from our heals. We really need to be open to the Spirit to discern when this door is truly shut. Otherwise even though our intentions are good and we are of GOD; we very well maybe the ones shutting the door to the Spirit than they.

May the LORD continue to bless us in all HIS Way; Jesus Christ!

Happy Sabbath LoveGodForever!

 

[Beez]

Hello Beez,

Some comments for your consideration below in BLUE below.........

​

So is this your apology of accusing me of saying something that I did not? Nice apology thanks.

​

Oh, my. My dear, I didn't realize your prerogative was an apology from me.
Seriously, I thought this was just a written conversation

between two adults​

.

If you need me to apologize for misunderstanding when you wrote that all who do Sunday instead of Sabbath are condemned to perdition, when you actually wrote that doing the Sabbath Command saves no one, I apologize.

So no I did not change the scripture meaning... another apology?

I am sorry for you that I cannot write an apology to you for writing that Sabbath, in this case, is singular Sabbath.

I do not know what bible version you are using​

I was using one of the Greek renditions. I'm sorry, but I have no apology for referring to the Greek Scriptures.

​

With regard to gb9, we don't always agree, but that doesn't seem to cause enmity between us. People are people -- imperfect people -- and we both accept that and move on.

I don't know -- it's just that we can be kind with one another regarding points of disagreement then move on without rancor.

​

You seem upset. Angry. I will apologize about that, too, if it helps you.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Hello Beez,

I am not upset or angry at all maybe you have a misunderstandin? Some comments for you in BLUE below...

Oh, my. My dear, I didn't realize your prerogative was an apology from me. Seriously, I thought this was just a written conversation between two adults

​

If you need me to apologize for misunderstanding when you wrote that all who do Sunday instead of Sabbath are condemned to perdition, when you actually wrote that doing the Sabbath Command saves no one, I apologize.

Beez, I do not need you to apologise for anything, it is just a courtesy if you accuse someone of doing something negatively that they did not do, wheather it is a misunderstanding or not to at least acknowledge your mistake and apologise especially if you make negative comments about somone in a public forum. I think everyone here including myself understands that everyone makes mistakes and no one is perfect.

I am sorry for you that I cannot write an apology to you for writing that Sabbath, in this case, is singular Sabbath.
I was using one of the Greek renditions. I'm sorry, but I have no apology for referring to the Greek Scriptures.

​

Lets agree to disagree. If you are using the Greek scriptures you will know that the Greek New Testament shows the declension for “sabbath” in Colossians 2:16 as N-GPN, which stands for “Noun-Genitive-Plural-Neuter,” that is, “sabbaths” or “sabbaths days.” This is how the majority of all bible translations use the word Sabbaths or Sabbath days (plural) in Colossians 2:16 which agrees with most bible commentaries showing the correct Greek translation of the scripture. Wheather you accept that or not you are free to believe anything you wish to. Maybe you believe most translations are wrong. You have the right to believe as you wish.

With regard to gb9, we don't always agree, but that doesn't seem to cause enmity between us. People are people -- imperfect people -- and we both accept that and move on.

Why you would think that there is enmity between us I am not sure. Is it because I told you that what you and gb9 were accusing me of is not true? If someone is having a discussion in a public forum and saying something that I have never said or believe, do I not have the right to disagree with them?

If I did not disagree with you then you would not have gone back and checked the OP for yourself and would be still agreeing with what gb9 wrote would you not?

I have no enmity towards you or am I upset but actually surprised you would feel that way. If you feel that way I apologise if I have given you the wrong impression as that was never my intention and the reason I have tried to explain myself in the earlier posts and have shared the scriptures for what I believe.

​

​

 

[gb9]

I am not accusing you of anything. you state, in a roundabout way, that one must keep the Sabbath or be in sin, thus excluded from salvation. this is not true, gentiles were never under the law.

so, stating what you try to pitch is not a false accusation, it is fact. Sabbath was not mentioned as a fruit of the Sprit, not keeping it was not mentioned as a work of the flesh. John said the commands for N.T believers is love one another, and believe in the name of the Son. Sabbath? not!

 

[LoveGodForever]

I am not accusing you of anything. you state, in a roundabout way, that one must keep the Sabbath or be in sin, thus excluded from salvation. this is not true, gentiles were never under the law.

so, stating what you try to pitch is not a false accusation, it is fact. Sabbath was not mentioned as a fruit of the Sprit, not keeping it was not mentioned as a work of the flesh. John said the commands for N.T believers is love one another, and believe in the name of the Son. Sabbath? not!

I am sorry my friend that you feel that way, You are free to choose what you believe. The scriptures are clear that God's Sabbath is the 4th commandment of the 10 commandments and if we KNOWINGLY break it, just like every other commandments, we stand guilty before God in SIN. The scriptures are very clear on the subject. If you disagree it is your right to do so. It is between you and God. Every secret thing will be made plain for all to see.

 

[gb9]

I am sorry my friend that you feel that way, You are free to choose what you believe. The scriptures are clear that God's Sabbath is the 4th commandment of the 10 commandments and if we KNOWINGLY break it, just like every other commandments, we stand guilty before God in SIN. The scriptures are very clear on the subject. If you disagree it is your right to do so. It is between you and God. Every secret thing will be made plain for all to see.

I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. and, sin is defined by missing the mark, falling short of a standard, knowing to do good and not doing so. these things properly define sin.

when you and others talk about braking commands, you can say that " I kept the Sabbath this week, I bowed down to no idol, did not covet anything, nor take God's name in vain, so I did not sin" thus setting up your own system of theology to keep.

I prefer to use Biblical facts, not your man ( cult ) made opinions.

 

[Jackson123]

Hello Jackson,

Well that is not true at all.

I do not reverse anything and never have. I have always said love is the fulfilling of God's LAW. (Romans 13:8-10) to those who walk by faith in God's Word. If you do not know God's Word how can you have Faith and be free to LOVE? If you SIN against GOD or your fellow man (break God's commandments) you are not free to LOVE and those that do not LOVE do not KNOW God for God is LOVE.....

What do you think the scripture you quoted above means from Matthew 22:36-40?

LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF GOD’S LAW TO THOSE WHO HAVE FAITH

You cannot separate God’s Law of love from the 10 commandments because they are connected to each other. There is no need for confusion here. God’s Word makes it very clear.

Let's have a look................................................

What does Jesus say when he talk about the commandments. Jesus is quoting from Old testament scriptures of Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18.................

Matthew 22
36, Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37, Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38, This is the first and great commandment.
39, And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
40, ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

Let's get clearer......................................................

Matthew 19
16, And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17, And he said unto him, Why call thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: BUT IF YOU WILL ENTER INTO LIFE KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.
18, He saith unto him, WHICH? JESUS SAID, THOU SHALT NOT MURDER, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, HONOR YOU MOTHER AND FATHER AND THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF
20, The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21, Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. <Jesus showed him that he may have fulfilled His duty of love to his neighbor but not to God breaking commandment 1 and 2 loving riches more than God>

Well Jesus makes it very clear that what he is talking about it is the 10 commandments of God's Law.

What about James................................................................

James 2
8, If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF, ye do well:
9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10, FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL KEEP THE WHOLE LAW AND YET OFFEND IN ONE POINT, HE SHALL BE GUILTY OF ALL.
11, FOR HE THAT SAID, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY SAID ALSO DO NOT KILL. NOW IF YOU DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY AND YOU KILL, YOU HAVE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW.
12, So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Well James makes it very clear what he is talking about when he talks about the Royal Law of love. He is talking about the 10 commandments. So Jesus and James both agree that they are talking about God's 10 commandments which also include the 4th commandment which is one of the ten.

What about Paul? He wrote a lot of books in God's Word...........................

Romans 13
8, Owe no man anything, but to LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW.
9, For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and IF THERE SHALL BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF.
10, Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

Paul makes it very clear what he is talking about as well when he is talking about God's Law. It seems like Jesus, James and Paul all agree together what it is they are referring to when talking about God's Law. They are all referring to God's 10 commandments which includes the 4th commandment which is one of the ten (Exodus 20:1-17)

So now that God's Word shows us what it is referring to. No need to guess what are talking about, God’s Law of Love is what fulfills God's 10 commandments in those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word. It is only through Faith that works by love that anyone can walk in the Spirit which produces the FRUIT OF OBEDIENCE because LOVE is the fulfilling of God’s Law in those that walk by faith and not by sight.

1 John 4
6, We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
7, Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8, He that loveth not knoweth not God; for GOD IS LOVE

1 John 5
3, For this is the LOVE of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

John 14
15, If you LOVE me keep my commandments

Yes seems like James and John and Paul all agree with Jesus that on the two GREAT commandments of LOVE hand all the LAW and the prophets.

God's people walk in LOVE and LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW written on the HEART in those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW the Word of God because they have FAITH in him who saves them....

This is the NEW Covenant of God's LAW written on the HEARTS and MIND of those who BELIEVE so they are NOW FREE TO LOVE HIM who FIRST LOVED US and it is LOVE the FULFILLS God's LAW.

These are God's people....

Revelation 12
17, And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

who are God's people...........

Revelation 14
12, Here is the patience of the SAINTS: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 14
14, Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. ...........

Now Jackson how can you know him when you do not know the Word of God? How will you hear Him when he is calling you? How will you know him from those that do not want you to follow him? How will you find the way when the road is narrow?

IN times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

there are 2 point I like to remind you

1. Love fullfiling the law, that is why all the law is hang to love. Now we are in New law It is love, fullfil or replace the old one


2. Romans 13:8

8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

I quote a verse that you give
for he that loveth another Hath fulfilled the law.

if you fulfilt the law, than you go to heaven. It is new covenant.

it doesn't say If you sabbath keeper fulfilled the law, If you love other is.

3. James 2:10
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
This verse prove SDA guilty of all

sabbath law follow by death penalty, not SDA man Made law

 

[LoveGodForever]

I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. and, sin is defined by missing the mark, falling short of a standard, knowing to do good and not doing so. these things properly define sin.

when you and others talk about braking commands, you can say that " I kept the Sabbath this week, I bowed down to no idol, did not covet anything, nor take God's name in vain, so I did not sin" thus setting up your own system of theology to keep.

I prefer to use Biblical facts, not your man ( cult ) made opinions.

Hello gb9,

We must continue to BELIEVE and FOLLOW the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. It is written the devils also believe and tremble but they are not saved because they do not FOLLOW Jesus.

Sin is not defined in God's Word as "missing the mark" as you have mentioned.

Sin is defined as breaking God's LAW (10 commandments). This is the purpose of God's LAW to give us a KNOWLEDGE of SIN and RIGHTEUSNESS and to lead us to Jesus for salvation.

Scriptures support........

James 2
8, If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:
9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

James is pretty clear if we brake ANY of God's Law (10 commandments) then we are a TRANSGRESSOR of God's LAW

links to...........

1 John 3
4 Whosoever commits SIN transgresses also the law: for SIN is the transgression of the law.
John is in agreement with James and states that if we TRANSGRESS God's LAW then we commit SIN because SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF GOD'S LAW. So it is very clear that SIN is breaking ANY of God's LAW (10 commandments)

looks like John agress with James on this subject.

Links to...........

Romans 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known SIN, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Well here we have Paul in agreement with James and John also telling us that SIN is breaking God's commandments and uses the 10th commandment as an example of breaking any of God's LAW (10 commandments) = SIN (Exodus 20:17)

Links to............

Romans 3
20, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.
Once again Paul is in agreement with John and James which all agree together that if we break any of God's LAW (10 commandments) we commit SIN because as James, John and Paul all agree together that SIN is breaking ANY of God's 10 commandments.

God's Word is in disagreement with you my friend. SIN is the transgression of God's LAW (10 commandments)

.........................

IN times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men every where to REPENT for the KINGDOM of HEAVEN is at HAND (Acts 17:30-31)

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?