God's sovereignity and man's "freedom"...

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preacher4truth

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Dec 28, 2016
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Metaphorically speaking, I didn't mean to cause this trend, figuratively speaking, of metaphorical postings. :D
 

SovereignGrace

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Pilate asked the Christ a very pointed question, "What is truth?" Truth is we were dead, dead in transgressions and sins. It was not a metaphorical death, but a literal death. Just as we are literally raised from death to life, not metaphorically.
 
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TruthTalk

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Metaphorically speaking, I didn't mean to cause this trend, figuratively speaking, of metaphorical postings. :D
I will need to read more of your statement because It seems to have a subliminal existential meaning underneath your words, maybe. :)
 

SovereignGrace

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Dec 28, 2016
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I will need to read more of your statement because It seems to have a subliminal existential meaning underneath your words, maybe. :)
When ppl leave the safe harbor of scripture, they get tossed around like a pit bull playing with a chew toy.
 

TruthTalk

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When ppl leave the safe harbor of scripture, they get tossed around like a pit bull playing with a chew toy.
And Here's proof the devil cannot interpret the bible correctly. "It is written, It is written, It is written."

Definition:

While exegesis is the process of drawing out the meaning from a text in accordance with the context and discoverable meaning of its author, eisegesis occurs when a reader imposes his or her interpretation into and onto the text.

The Temptation of Jesus:
Matthew 4:1-11


4)
Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And after fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 And the tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.”

4 But he answered, “It is written,
"Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’ ”

"Then the devil took him to the holy city and set him on the pinnacle of the temple 6 and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written,

He will command his angels concerning you,’ and,

‘On their hands they will bear you up,
lest you strike your foot against a stone.’ ”

7
Jesus said to him, “Again it is written, You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.” 8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to him, “All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me.”

10
Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, iSatan! For it is written",
'You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’ ”

11
Then the devil left him, and behold, angels came and were ministering to him.
 
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SovereignGrace

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
236
63
And Here's proof the devil cannot interpret the bible correctly. "It is written, It is written, It is written."

Definition:

While exegesis is the process of drawing out the meaning from a text in accordance with the context and discoverable meaning of its author, eisegesis occurs when a reader imposes his or her interpretation into and onto the text.

The Temptation of Jesus:
Matthew 4:1-11


4)
Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And after fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 And the tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.”

4 But he answered, “It is written,
"Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’ ”

"Then the devil took him to the holy city and set him on the pinnacle of the temple 6 and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written,

He will command his angels concerning you,’ and,

‘On their hands they will bear you up,
lest you strike your foot against a stone.’ ”

7
Jesus said to him, “Again it is written, You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.” 8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to him, “All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me.”

10
Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, iSatan! For it is written",
'You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’ ”

11
Then the devil left him, and behold, angels came and were ministering to him.

It is written
that we were dead in transgressions and sins. Not a metaphor, either.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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Well, with all due respect I believe your proposal is an unrealistic goal. Although it may appear unlikely any or too few are persuaded, it still happens. In fact, there are several persons that I know of personally who have come to embrace Reformed doctrine after careful analysis and exegesis of Scripture.

Not to argue, or be disagreeable, but that to me is profitable. The testimonies of those seeing these truths are tremendous, and their understanding being opened, rekindled glorying in God, hunger to know him even more all make it well worth the effort. I see this all as an answer to Paul's prayer for the saints; Ephesians 1:15-23.

Truth is always at stake, and will always be defended from each others perspective.

I cannot embrace decisional regeneration, that we have wills that are free in our lost state, or that God elects based upon seeing through portals of time man's decision &c. Believing against these things enhances our understanding concerning the Biblical state of the lost, and the need for God to grant them faith, repentance &c. God set out to gather all he has chosen from eternity and is doing just that, and there are none other persons who will be saved.

Therefore the views I hold to will reflect this from a Biblical standpoint which I believe to be from careful and contextual exegesis. To me it is defending the faith, the purity of the Word, God's character and nature, and of course the Gospel, something Paul also was set to do, as well as we ourselves; Philippians 1:7, 16.

Standing our ground theologically will be deemed by many as sniping, and then there is the issue with compromise, which in my opinion there would have to be compromise to ensure your proposal. There is no complete unity in compromise and it would be asking for me to set aside what is true in the word, and for you to do the same as per your position.

I hope my position does not offend you or divide us.

God bless.
Brother,

I am not quick to take offense.

Your is accepted for what it is; and we are still friends:rolleyes:
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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• “He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only
for ours but also for the sins of the whole world” (
1 John 2:2)

• “The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, ‘Behold,
the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!”” (
John 1:29)

“I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone
eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which
I will give for the life of the world is My flesh.”
(John 6:51)

“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.” (John 12:32)

• “For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the
testimony given at the proper time” (
1 Timothy 2:5–6)

• “But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower
than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of
death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace
of God He might taste death for everyone” (
Hebrews 2:9)

• “But false prophets also arose among the people, just as
there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly
introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who
bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves” (
2 Peter 2:1)

Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Tim 2

The Calvinist will say, "the whole world" and "all" do not mean "all"
and "the whole world," & that "everyone" does not mean "everyone."

Saying God is weak is another pretend rebuttal they offer :eek:
 
Oct 15, 2017
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Metaphorically speaking, I didn't mean to cause this trend, figuratively speaking, of metaphorical postings. :D
Metaphorically speaking this theology battle was onesided.

I think what peacefulbeliever was saying is that the dead in trespasses and sins doesnt mean dead as in not able to act, but metaphorically dead.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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Yep I like bacon too, but why do I keep getting this tab when I try to rep your post.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to SovereignGrace again.





 
Oct 15, 2017
133
13
0
Yep I like bacon too, but why do I keep getting this tab when I try to rep your post.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to SovereignGrace again.





I'll take it, did I say something smart yet?
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
And Here's proof the devil cannot interpret the bible correctly. "It is written, It is written, It is written."

Definition:

While exegesis is the process of drawing out the meaning from a text in accordance with the context and discoverable meaning of its author, eisegesis occurs when a reader imposes his or her interpretation into and onto the text.

The Temptation of Jesus:
Matthew 4:1-11


4)
Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And after fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 And the tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.”

4 But he answered, “It is written,
"Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’ ”

"Then the devil took him to the holy city and set him on the pinnacle of the temple 6 and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written,

He will command his angels concerning you,’ and,

‘On their hands they will bear you up,
lest you strike your foot against a stone.’ ”

7
Jesus said to him, “Again it is written, You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.” 8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to him, “All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me.”

10
Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, iSatan! For it is written",
'You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’ ”

11
Then the devil left him, and behold, angels came and were ministering to him.
Please be seated before you read this, lol!

There are those who are anti-cals who say that expositional preaching and exegesis is UNBIBLICAL! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I am just a little curious here. Does this cell include man and women who knowingly risk their lives for others.

In my short life :) I have known or have heard of people in my community (officers, firefighters, soldiers even a teacher intervened to save a student from a knife wielding student) who have died or almost died to save another, sometimes a total stranger.

Seems to me a person who knowingly risks their life is not so restricted in their behaviour patterns (nature) as you are suggesting.


Man's "freedom" is in the bible. But in proper context, that "freedom" is restricted to their nature. Like someone in a jail cell. They freely move within that cell, but can't go past those prison bars. Ppl freely move within the confines of their nature, but can't go past it. Those Pharisees and Joseph's brothers freely acted within the confines of their nature when they did what they did. No one forced them to do their wicked deeds. They, in accordance to their wicked hearts, freely did what they did.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
Metaphorically speaking this theology battle was onesided.

I think what peacefulbeliever was saying is that the dead in trespasses and sins doesnt mean dead as in not able to act, but metaphorically dead.
Yeah, well, she's metaphorically alive. :D
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,183
26,235
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Metaphorically speaking this theology battle was onesided.

I think what peacefulbeliever was saying is that the dead in trespasses and sins doesnt mean dead as in not able to act, but metaphorically dead.
It seems obvious to me that saying we are "dead in our sins," when we are walking around living and breathing and very much alive in the here and now, means that "dead" in that case alludes to something other than our normal understanding of death.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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But somehow this escapes the Calvinist who would
rather mock and scoff, than attempt to understand.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
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Please be seated before you read this, lol!

There are those who are anti-cals who say that expositional preaching and exegesis is UNBIBLICAL! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
Why am I not shocked, I grew up with this mentality, In my home,
"scripture means what you think it means." :)