God's sovereignty vs human free will

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Sep 11, 2013
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They are not the same being and I don't care what you post claiming they are.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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He is referring to when He says He can do nothing of Himself[endquote]
It means he don't have freewill and neither do we. It means He is doing what his father commanded him to do. The words he speaks are not his own, they are his fathers. John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
He chose to do as Father led, period and had a hard time in the Garden, saying please Father is there any other way, never the less your will Father not mine.
Are we as believers saying this very same thing and being led by God the Father as Christ was led here on earth. Are we not the representation. Vessels for God to use us if we say we want this. FREE WILL, and God will do in us what we never could do in ourselves ever. Done only by God though us in the Spirit of God only, and this is done by belief (FAITH)
Proof, the disciples had to wait why? Because no one can do anything with out God in the lead. Pentecost came and is still here today
Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Do you deny this?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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If only the Father knows how am I a man who believes in the Trinity, and the word of God suppose to answer???

Trinity is not biblical. Trinity is a definition man applied to his own understanding of those scriputres. And you are a man that believes in it because its what you have been falsely taught by man. If you don't believe only the father knows and the son doesn't here is the verse.


Matt 24:36 But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
If you don't understand the physical analogy of water in three different forms as all being water. Then how will you understand Spiritual realities?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Stop that. I didn't say He is not divine. He was given all power and authority by his father. And I deny eternal punishment because its a lie taught to man by preachers. Lets not forgot its is they that lead the sheep astry and it is they that deceived the whole world. Lets not forget God put lying spirit in the mouths of prophets and those lies have passed down from generation to generation and those lies are still believed today.
And here you are spreading lies and using the hypocrites to make you believable, sorry, Scripture that you use does not line up to the whole truth.
Now whether you know this or not is not between Us and you. It is between God and you.
You are as I said straining out gnats and causing division

So please tell me who is the Christ?
Did he come in the flesh through the Virgin Mary?
Was he born here on earth a life-giving Spirit?
Do we receive through the cross of Christ new life in God's Spirit a free gift to us, via the resurrection?
How are we to live here and now, by Flesh nature and sin or by God's nature and live?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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If people would check on it they will find out trinity was not in the bible.
To start with are Christ and Father one?
Who lived in Christ during his 3 year ministry?
What did John the Baptist say right after Baptizing Christ?
Was John the witness?
Who then did Jesus pray to in Heaven since he had upon him the Holy Ghost of truth?
Whom did Christ send to us, was it not the same Holy Ghost of truth that he sent after he ascended and today is at the right hand of Father.
Is not the Holy Ghost of truth our coupler unto Father through Son? We are led by the Spirit of God as Christ was led, and without this leading and us listening thus doing no one else gets the truth,
Is this not why the disciples had to wait until the what? Holy Ghost came upon them. Just maybe this might be what you need as well.
For without God as lead, we are nothing more than blind leading blind right? Just some meat to eat if you are willing. Oh wait a minute you have no free will as you have said right?
So should I force truth on you? I can bring a horse to water, but I can't make the horse drink.
Thank you for all your posts. Please let us all Go to God the Father in Prayer through the Son and ask for Father's truth, and get our minds renewed to see all things from Father's perspective not yours, mine or any of mankind
All in love to you
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Yes midnightwelder, here is the verse.

1john 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Did Christ come here in the flesh through a woman?
Has Christ always existed with God the Father?
Yes or no to each ? please only
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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No and that's another reason all mankind is saved. God sent his son to be savior of the world not just some of it.
truth and all that is left is to either believe God and set out to learn truth from Father through Son, do you agree with this?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Sin and wickedness messes a person up[endquote]

sin and wickedness comes from MAN'S HEART AND MIND. Refer to my satan thread.
That would be flesh right. For no flesh in God's sight will ever please God right? Except only one flesh did and that was Christ Jesus only right? So then if you agree what is needed then to please God?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Just as his word returning to him
No man come to the father but by what?
But By Christ

Yes but by Christ drawing us. We, his enemies do not go to him of our own, he draws us. Without him drawing us, his enemies would never go to him because a leopard cannot change his spots. If he didn't come to us, we would remain his enemy forever.
So how did he come to us then? To do what?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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The confusion lays in man wanting to boast in himself instead of the Lord.
Yes and is this not why he came to give us new life in the Spirit? and if this is not available here today to be born again here and now in God's Spirit, how can anyone of us serve God in truth.
Is not God a Spirit and wants us to serve in Spirit and truth? So how can this be real right here right now, unless we are by Christ from Father born again?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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They are not the same being and I don't care what you post claiming they are.
Okay we disagree and I know we all have free will (choice) so be it then.
Hoping you don't live like a refugee or think the grace of God is to be taken for granted and sin all the more with the excuse I can because I am forgiven as the Corinthians dis at first, and is why 1Cor. was written to them to get then to see the whole truth of God's love and turn them to a Godly sorrow over the worldly one they had
Anyway love you as God des love us all
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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The word in the bible is not chose, its commanded
Living under Law as a commandment is living under the letter that shows us the flesh curse of self effort, ones need for the Savior.
Hoping you are finding this need? Maybe you think you have found it, I don't know, only God does.
So tell me this please, do you think truth will set you free?
Then truth would set you free from any bondage you might have or I might have truth?

So you know this as truth are you in Bondage? If you are then truth has not set you free has it?
So do you think then if you are in bondage of any sort, that your truth might be in error and possibly might need to rethink it all over again?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Im spreading lies, its that you were never taught the truth.
John 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

If you are not free, then error has caused this and keeps one in bondage and so has God through Son made you free to keep from sin or not?
[h=3]1 John 2:1-2[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 2:12
I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name’s sake.

Do you believe the above from God to you through Scripture?
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
In the Greek, which you can find on-line yourself, it says "Pantas" which is simply "ALL". The word man, or aner or andropos is not used, and neither is the word anthropos, which usually means all "humans."

"κἀγὼ ἐὰν ὑψωθῶ ἐκ τῆς γῆς, πάντας ἑλκύσω πρὸς ἐμαυτόν." John 12:32

ESV says:

"And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself." John 12:32

KJV has translated it wrongly, unless you consider that until about 20 years ago, the male gender included the female in English literature, when appropriate.

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me." John 12:32.

I don't know if you could go so far as to make a case that this is a "general term" rather than one used for individual people. I would think "All people(S)" might be the general term. What does everyone think about that?

I suppose you would believe, that in Acts 2:44 where it says all things were held in common, universal terms can't be used in non-universal ways, and thus the believers shared spouses quite frequently.


Acts 2:44 Greek Text Analysis <-- click

By the way, when you cite yourself as your authority for Greek, I really don't trust you at all because you have proven to be radically erroneous before on many occaisions.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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I suppose you would believe, that in Acts 2:44 where it says all things were held in common, universal terms can't be used in non-universal ways, and thus the believers shared spouses quite frequently.


Acts 2:44 Greek Text Analysis <-- click

By the way, when you cite yourself as your authority for Greek, I really don't trust you at all because you have proven to be radically erroneous before on many occaisions.
Why do you think I told YOU, Jimmy, to look it up yourself. Your link is self explanatory, as far as the word "All". Not sure about the rest of the statement pointing to sharing spouses.

Nor am I sure what the point of this is? Jesus said he would draw ALL to him. Now that does need to be qualified with ALL who believe, which is not in this verse. Unless you are a universalist, which I don't believe from your previous posts that you are.

So why did you not post the link to John 12:32 instead? Seems like that would be more appropriate! Or did you find out I was right when you checked and you were just looking for another way to cut me down?

I'm sick again, lucky I wasn't yesterday. So I will bow out here.

But I must admit I am puzzled about how sharing property or "things" means sharing spouses. I thought spouses were people, committed to one another in a bond of love. So likely Acts 2:44 doesn't refer to spouses, who are NOT things. Unless, of course, you believe female spouses are property, like the ancient Greeks and the Pharisees???
 

konroh

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2013
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It would seem that there is a universal drawing of all mankind to Jesus in reference to His being lifted up, dying on a cross (John 12:32). That is, every person will be called to account for what they decide about Christ's death on the cross.

There is also a drawing by God specifically on those who believe. In John 6 Jesus says you cannot believe on Him unless God the Father draws you. So this is a specific leading by God that is not universal, only on those who believe.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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It would seem that there is a universal drawing of all mankind to Jesus in reference to His being lifted up, dying on a cross (John 12:32). That is, every person will be called to account for what they decide about Christ's death on the cross.

There is also a drawing by God specifically on those who believe. In John 6 Jesus says you cannot believe on Him unless God the Father draws you. So this is a specific leading by God that is not universal, only on those who believe.
Yes truth, as is put, but God is not going to draw one, unless one desires to know God without any self gain purpose to harm others. So God will have Mercy n who God decides to have Mercy on.
It takes this to become as I see this:

"Comfort God by letting God know that you would see God just to dwell in God's Presence. Not for teaching, not for material gain, not even for a message, but for God. The longing of the human heart to be loved for itself is something caught from the Great Divine Heart."