Grace and Law are married....

[Elin]

Is Jesus God, equal with God the Father?

Yes, or no. . .

It's a question that cannot be answered with conditions, ifs, ands, buts, or maybes.

Jesus either is God, equal with God the Father, or he is not.

It's either an unequivocal "yes" or an unequivocal "no."

Bizarre, would have to agree, as it's a very simple question. So, in the interest of helping the, what, shy out of a shell, I'll step up to the plate and contribute an answer. Jesus Christ is equal with God the Father, is very much deity. It even gets worse for Jehovah's Witnesses, Jesus Christ was the Creator, Almighty God of the Old Testament! (Oh my! I can hear the convulsing at the Kingdom Hall, which, incidentally, isn't a church, churches evil...)

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. ... 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Sorry. I've gone into the rabbit hole and back around with Jehovah's Witnesses, heard the Lord Jesus near reduced to a shepherd boy in the scheme of things. In the end,
they can only fall back on changing the meaning of Bible words. I've never quite related to rewriting the Bible to suit us, I mean, what about reality?

Have you ever seen such ignorance of the NT,
such loose sliding around in and out of texts,
with no regard for their actual wording or meaning,
and that includes the statements of others,
such misleading misstatements of others' statements,
and in general just gaming the discussion,

and no clue as to what such intellectual dishonesty reveals about their methodology?

Actually, it reveals more than I really care to know.

So let the denial and deception begin.

The record speaks for itself.

 

[just-me]

Originally Posted by Elin

Is Jesus God, equal with God the Father?

Yes, or no. . .

It's a question that cannot be answered with conditions, ifs, ands, buts, or maybes.

Jesus either is God, equal with God the Father, or he is not.

It's either an unequivocal "yes" or an unequivocal "no."

this is why i did not answer you with a yes or no,

anything i said you would have disagreeded with.

so i post some scripture to youre question,

and you say i deny Jesus Christ, with out one word of my own

how do you come to this conclusion from verses from bible i posted

This is the 2nd day that she has posted the same question on 3 different threads that I have seen. I asked her what the point was on another thread because she said quoting scripture was irrelevant to the point.
Get the point? LOL

 

[just-me]

I posted this on another thread of mine called The new covenant with Christ Jesus. I thought it might benefit this thread.

It's another way of saying they are part of each other. Paul expressed this reality to the Romans concerning God's grace that gives us faith.
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid : yea, we establish the law.

Galatians 2:20-21
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live ; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Put it together, if we don't acknowledge the law as righteous and principles to adhere to, then we are sinning because we are not living by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Jesus' words cannot be rejected as He quoted the law to our adversary.

Deuteronomy 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger , and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know ; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live .

What then? shall we sin , because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid . (Romans 6:15)



The physical temple and Levitical priesthood has passed. Jesus fulfilled that. Now if we love God and our neighbor we will adhere to the law that tells us how to do just that with detailed principles. The law was given because of transgression. That's graceful in my opinion.

Check it out, because true believers do this through faith, not by trying to be justified without faith.

Leviticus 19:15-18
15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge , nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Deuteronomy 6:1-6
1 Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
2 That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged .
3 Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
4 Hear , O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

The law concerning our responsibility must be in your heart, otherwise it means nothing. If we purposefully deny the instruction of God because His ways are not our ways, we are willfully ignorant, and willfully sinning. So then who is lawless? God's judgment is inescapable, and His judgments contain blessings as well as cursing. Do a Joshua and choose this day whom you will serve.

 

[fredjames]

Re: Grace and Law are married or Divorced? or Dead to the First Husband (Law)?

yes yes we have the Scriptures and this is what it says...
Jeremiah 31:31-34 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

...repeated in Hebrews
Also...
2 Corinthians 3:3-8 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

It would help if some of you used scripture to back up your claims.

Dearly beloved, by the gift of the HOLY SPIRIT placed in you and me, in Scripture quoting you have replied to what i have been guided to reply, using the gift of wisdom, to speak all of them as established and given sound doctrine spiritual knowledge, for you have distinguished and acknowledged.

So, does the LORD allow me to respond and react to your ignorance of being in the flesh/carnality request?

And so, in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST, wise up all of you, even to those who have commented 'likes' according to crossnote's reply in ignorance, as character according to the pattern of 'facebook' foundation, who are also together in ignorance to the pattern of this world, in order to accomplish 'self/carnal' pleasure and enjoying debates.

May GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST have mercy upon you ignorance and help you all in Spiritual growth together, learning from one another's placed gifts and 'unite', to serve in unmerited favor shown love and not to be served in 'self', distinguishing one above any others.

Behavior like this is counted by the LORD JESUS CHRIST as 'lawlessness'.

 

[prove-all]

For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. (Joh 1:16-17)

yes this is a good verse to show Grace and Law are married together.

 

[prove-all]

So it is the grace of faith that produces obedience.

Obedience doesn't produce the grace of faith.

yes you are so right, everyone God says needs grace of Jesus.

you are my sister in Christ along with everyone here who believes.

But you are missing the wisdom that God gives raining now on us.


There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit

I remember the days of old; I meditate on all thy works;
I muse on the work of thy hands.

“The fear of the[Eternal] is the beginning of wisdom:
a good understanding have all they that do his commandments.

The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him;
and he will shew them his covenant.

He said:Remember the days of old, consider the years
of many generations: ask thy father, and he will shew thee;
thy elders, and they will tell thee.

And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh;
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams,
your young men shall see visions:

And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

- the first horseman[religious deception] of John started just after Jesus Church started,
also olivet prophesy the same with the great persucation.

20My glory was fresh in me, and my bow was renewed in my hand.
21Unto me men gave ear, and waited, and kept silence at my counsel.

- we where in a dry spell, but no more.

22After my words they spake not again; and my speech dropped upon them.

23And they waited for me as for the rain; and they opened their mouth wide as for the latter rain.

it is raining now the latter rain, please everyone drink to the full.

you can not just rely on the new without knowing the old.

 

[Hoffco]

That is an excellent analogy, in that the speed limit was not given to condemn us, but rather make our lives safer and better, or rather more abundant.

Except now that GRACE has come, we are no longer under that speed limit..........sigh

rehbein, this is sooooo wrong! we are still under the moral laws of God, Grace gives us a new heart to love the moral laws of God and the power to keep the moral laws of God. This is where Elin goes wrong, she doesn't know what grace is, She thinks grace is faith, no way! Grace is God's POWER and MERCY that gives us the gifts of FAITH and WORKS. scuba, has it right. the Christian loves God's moral laws and keep them joyfully, since he has the faith and power to keep the moral laws. God made us new persons to keep His moral laws. perfectly, with/by love. Love to all Hoffco

 

[john832]

I'm speaking of christians who have the Holy Spirit...God's nature written on their hearts.

Then why do we need to ask?

Jas 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

Because the Holy Spirit does NOT possess or force someone. It is a gentle help that only works with us when we ask and use it.

 

[Scuba]

You illustratedbwhat mercy is...not grace.
Grace is getting what you don't deserve...blessings.
Mercy is not getting what you do desrve..punishment.

Grace is unmerited favor. The police officer showed unmerited favor to me by not giving me the speeding ticket. I didn't earn the warning nor did I deserve it because is was guilty. You could say that grace and mercy are sisters. Not twin sisters, but sisters none the less.