Grape Juice and God’s Judgment

[hornetguy]

That's my biggest complaint with "buildings".... a functional building is a benefit to a church, I think, but it can rapidly get out of hand, trying to make it stylish enough..

Back in my carpenter days, I helped build a church building in Pampa, Tx... and they were putting in really nice wood.... I think it was either red oak or walnut, can't remember for sure, ALL throughout the building.

I was thinking, something cheaper would be just as functional, and probably cut the cost of the building by a couple hundred thousand dollars....

It's easy to go overboard with stuff like that, when it doesn't improve the fellowship of the church at all...

Functional and cheap is the way I think buildings should be built.... and make them multi-purpose, so that they are not only used a few hours on two days out of a week.

Good stewardship is called for...

 

[oldethennew]

good post, horn,,,

it brings tears to my eyes when I think of how many died of starvation or homelessness,
or loneliness or just being close to another to love them for themselves, for the hatefulness
and greed and worldly adoration that so many desire...

 

[breno785au]

I remember when I was growing up in catholic school, when it came to learn and take first communion, we were instructed for weeks before hand how to receive the bread wafer from the priest. It was something like wait in line, when its your turn step forward, cup both hands one slightly under the other, the right under the left I believe (this was super important for some reason) then the priest will say "Body of Christ" and you reply, "Amen."
I was so terrified I'd get it all wrong, which I think I did, I cupped the wrong hand under, I forgot to say Amen and I felt really bad lol

 

[Yahweh_is_gracious]

Another interesting topic Willie. I've never taken communion myself, and reading through the responses in this thread, it puts that into perspective for me. I'm still unsure how I feel about the act of communion with regards to how it's treated in different denominations and since I'm so non-committed to a church, it's always seemed inappropriate for me to take communion when I disagree with most of what every church I've been to teaches and stands for.

 

[oldethennew]

Another interesting topic Willie. I've never taken communion myself, and reading through the responses in this thread, it puts that into perspective for me. I'm still unsure how I feel about the act of communion with regards to how it's treated in different denominations and since I'm so non-committed to a church, it's always seemed inappropriate for me to take communion when I disagree with most of what every church I've been to teaches and stands for.

================================================

yig,

there is not a scripture that tells us that may not take communion in our own home...

 

[followjesus]

excellent read willie. thank you for sharing learned a lot. God bless

 

[posthuman]

lol i was reading this thinking wow Willie writes with a different narrative "voice" than what i am used to hearing from him; i wonder why he doesn't write like this most of the time . . ?
. . . until i got all the way to the end and saw it was a quote.
doh

but i could have believed you wrote all this, friend -- just that the style was odd for you

17 In the following directives I have no praise for you, for your meetings do more harm than good. 18 In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it. 19 No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God’s approval. 20 When you come together, it is not the Lord’s Supper you eat, 21 for as you eat, each of you goes ahead without waiting for anybody else. One remains hungry, another gets drunk. 22 Don’t you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you for this? Certainly not!

For starters, it’s important to understand that the early churches “communion services” were vastly different from our own. They didn’t squeeze it in at the end of a Sunday morning service, nor did they sandwich it in between the praise & worship and the sermon. For the early Church, the celebration of the Lord’s supper was a very big deal. A typical meeting in the early Church consisted in what were called love feasts, or simply, the agape. Jude mentions these celebratory gatherings in verse 12 of his one chapter[ed] epistle. The Evangelical Dictionary of Theology states: “…it is evident that that church observed the practice of meeting together for a common meal before partaking of the Lord’s Supper…” This “common meal” is what became known as the agape, or, the Love Feast.

i still . .
every time i read this epistle . .
see, the Evangelical Dictionary of Theology dates to 1984 ((i looked it up)) -- i don't know that this description is really authoritative on what the 1st churches did. i honestly haven't read the early church 'fathers' writings, and i am honestly ignorant of the earliest traditions and how the may have changed historically.

but every time i read this, i get the impression that the 'Lord's Supper' as it was observed in Corinth is absolutely not what we commonly do, which is a ritually stylized rite descended from the habit of Catholic mass, taking a sip of this and a nibble of that. Paul doesn't mention a 'love feast' -- he's talking about the Lord's Supper, and saying it's not what they are celebrating, because they are not of the right spirit when they come together. if there is a separate feast and ritual, there's no mention of it in the text here. maybe there is, but someone would have to tell me about it, because Paul isn't telling me about it . . ?

i get the sense that the observance itself i was much more akin to a 'pot-luck' or 'covered-dish' or 'fellowship supper' - what we more commonly do on weekday evenings once a month in some places, or every week as is the custom in some of my 'home group' meetings. because they are reprimanded for getting drunk or going hungry -- so there is enough wine to get drunk on, and the expectation is that there should be enough food to satisfy hunger.
maybe the case is that after such a meal, a communal cup and bread was passed, but even so it is not at all 'removed' & 'separate' from the feast but a culminating event at the close of it; a highlight. desert is part of supper, right? just another course.
and this makes much more sense to me considering that what we really have in this is the commemoration of Christ sitting down to eat Seder, the Passover meal, with His disciples, and symbolically taking His flesh and His blood as our sustenance.

"for Christ, our Passover Lamb, has been sacrificed"
(1 Corinthians 5:7)
​

what some were guilty of not discerning is His body - which is all of us, and they were not taking care to provide for and serve and have meek regard for each other. exactly what opportunity do you have for this when you are just sitting in your pew being handed a teeny sip & nibble? or even if you file out of the pew and go to the front to receive your nibble & sip, what could you be doing that doesn't discern the body? or what could you be possibly doing that does discern it? not cutting line? that's it?
the author talks about being 'cliquish' -- but how do you really avoid that, in the sense of what we all commonly regard as the observation of this? take your sip & nibble and play musical pews with it? go sit with someone new?

every time i read this, and every time we meet together and eat.
let others go ahead of you, especially the kids or anyone who seems hungry.
don't take the last piece of bacon or slice of cake.
leave some lemonade.
bring something good yourself, as you can afford it.
remember who it is that brings you all together.
remember who it is that is really sustaining you, and what He did that really gives you life.

doesn't it all seem more applicable to an actual meal?
maybe we are doing it wrong.
i mean, i think of Him, and i think of what His blood and His body are, what they mean, why He did what He did, what He is, Who He is, and all -- but this whole discussion written to those in Corinth, it doesn't seem to fit with a nibble and a sip, does it??

is it just me?

next time you eat together with believers, think about it. ask the Lord if this is His supper, and see what the Spirit says, OK? & discern the body -- and please let post know how that goes?
'cuz this bugs me
it has for a long time

 

[Vdp]

If you think it was bad in your Church, try doing it in the Catholic Church where they do it DAILY and with statues of Mary all around you!

Talk about Hell!

 

[posthuman]

i know, i talk about this almost every time there's a communion thread, lol.

i guess it's something you come to expect from post just like when someone says "some preachers are wrong" you can bet that Yet will show up, or that if some thread has something about obedience or the law etc. in the title, certain people are going to inevitably be posting about the sabbath in it.


hey -- ain't there worse things to be know for?

 

[Willie-T]

No, Post, I am nowhere near as good a writer as Jeff. I proofed a book for him, simply because I happen to spell better than he does, and I probably paid a bit more attention in English class than he did.

 

[breno785au]

Awesome thread, something never felt quite right when I "examined" myself holding that piece of bread and plastic shot cup of juice. It truly is a time for celebration of what Jesus has done for us and not mourning over what He has already removed!

My wife just said, Jesus said do this in rememberance of Me, not in rememberance of your sins, haha!

 

[hornetguy]

since we don't regularly have a full meal together as a church body, when we DO take communion, I think it should be done with a feeling of family... the way it's normally "done" in our church, as in many others, is to pass the tray down the rows, with each person, or couple partaking, and passing it along. Not much, if anything is said during the passing of the trays... I think there should/could be some discussion about what is going on, or encouragement, or simply acknowledging each other in some way while it is being taken. That would seem to fit more with the discernment of the body of Christ..

(I'm not sure we're ready for back slapping and high fives, like Willie... talk about raising some eyebrows! LOL)

But, the somber, don't look anyone in the eyes kind of thing is sort of, well... lacking.

 

[ukok102nak]

:rofl: as it is written
:read:
Mga Taga-Colosas: 3. 1. If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

3. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

5. Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

6. For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7. In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
8. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.

9. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10. And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

 

[pottersclay]

Very good share Willy t this is a important message the body needs to understand. Great post.

Just a short story, my wife and I were out of town for the weekend , come Sunday we went to fellowship near the place we were staying. They were having communion that Sunday with a brand new pastor. After the service I wanted to introduce my wife and self to him and as usual my humor got the best of me.
After we talked for a bit and started saying our good byes I told him how much I liked his message and if he kept on serving the continental breakfast I was sure more people would attend. The look in his eyes (deer in the head lights).

 

[posthuman]

since we don't regularly have a full meal together as a church body, when we DO take communion, I think it should be done with a feeling of family...

i'm trying to remember where you're from, if you've mentioned it . . ?

because i'm southern, & moved even deeper south some 4 years ago now. it might be a 'southern thang' - but it seems like almost every time we meet, we all feed each other. there's some kind of unwritten rule here that whatever else we've gathered to do, there has to be food of some kind. it's a way people express love for each other down here

 

[Willie-T]

i'm trying to remember where you're from, if you've mentioned it . . ?

because i'm southern, & moved even deeper south some 4 years ago now. it might be a 'southern thang' - but it seems like almost every time we meet, we all feed each other. there's some kind of unwritten rule here that whatever else we've gathered to do, there has to be food of some kind. it's a way people express love for each other down here

[video=youtube;-YFRUSTiFUs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YFRUSTiFUs[/video]

 

[ukok102nak]

:hrmm: as it is written
:read:
Mga Taga-Efeso: 6. 6. Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
7. With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:

8. Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.

 

[ukok102nak]

~;> and
as it is written
:read:
James 4:17
To the one having da'as, therefore, knowing to do tov and not doing it, to him is it chet.

Santiago: 4. 15. For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.
16. But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil.

17. Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

 

[hornetguy]

i'm trying to remember where you're from, if you've mentioned it . . ?

because i'm southern, & moved even deeper south some 4 years ago now. it might be a 'southern thang' - but it seems like almost every time we meet, we all feed each other. there's some kind of unwritten rule here that whatever else we've gathered to do, there has to be food of some kind. it's a way people express love for each other down here

We are originally from west Texas...Lubbock. We moved to the metroplex about 19 yrs ago, living in Allen.

Growing up we'd have pot lucks (dinner in the dirt) about once a month. Over here it's about once a year. I miss it..

I like y'alls approach to it.

 

[Grandpa]

I remember when I was growing up in catholic school, when it came to learn and take first communion, we were instructed for weeks before hand how to receive the bread wafer from the priest. It was something like wait in line, when its your turn step forward, cup both hands one slightly under the other, the right under the left I believe (this was super important for some reason) then the priest will say "Body of Christ" and you reply, "Amen."
I was so terrified I'd get it all wrong, which I think I did, I cupped the wrong hand under, I forgot to say Amen and I felt really bad lol

Oh. I bet this is what the people in the Lutheran church I first went to were saying as well.

They were saying Amen... It was something simple but I couldn't quite catch it because their backs were turned to me. We were all in a line.

Thank you seems more appropriate to say to me...