Thank you for your kind words, my friend. However, I have not lost hope on people here in trying to reach them. For the Scriptures says, love hopes all things (1 Corinthians 13:7). As for Proverbs 26: Well, I see Proverbs 26:4 as being in reference to when a person insults you only (with no actual talk about the Bible) whereby they do not desire to actually consider what the Scriptures even say. This is important because there are many who will either not even talk about the Bible (or they will very rarely bring it up) and or they will not even look at the verses that you have brought forth . For when we read Proverbs 26, we also have to read verse 5 that says we are to answer them if they think they are wise in their own eyes (Meaning, if they think they know the wisdom of the Word, but they do not actually know it --- Whereby we can correct them if they are open to hearing it by the Spirit).
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J
You are witnessing against yourself!
Name one single good work you have ever done that is not from God??
Look around you, your family your most treasured inner loves..How much of it are you responsible for??
Nil.Big fat Zero.
You are given gifts which abide and abide and abide
Faith is from God
Belief is from God
Obedience by the spirit is from God
Truth is from God
Your breath is from God
Your life is From God
Your confusion is from God, and God knows it!
Your Life is vapour, you have value because God says you have value. He can excel you, crush you, make you whatever he wants.
Stop and think,
Do you think God will ever owe you anything?
Do you think God Needs your approval?
Do you think you can harm him? Change his plans?
You are dust, your selfish works are filth.
Get a grip!
It is written we are all Gods workmanship. Not partly, not if we decide, not on a good day. ALL and ALWAYS
Stop sending me messages about dead works planning.
You doctrine is hogwash.
But...I would still give you the shirt off my back if you needed it.
Bless you.
Name one single good work you have ever done that is not from God??
Look around you, your family your most treasured inner loves..How much of it are you responsible for??
Nil.Big fat Zero.
You are given gifts which abide and abide and abide
Faith is from God
Belief is from God
Obedience by the spirit is from God
Truth is from God
Your breath is from God
Your life is From God
Your confusion is from God, and God knows it!
Your Life is vapour, you have value because God says you have value. He can excel you, crush you, make you whatever he wants.
Stop and think,
Do you think God will ever owe you anything?
Do you think God Needs your approval?
Do you think you can harm him? Change his plans?
You are dust, your selfish works are filth.
Get a grip!
It is written we are all Gods workmanship. Not partly, not if we decide, not on a good day. ALL and ALWAYS
Stop sending me messages about dead works planning.
You doctrine is hogwash.
But...I would still give you the shirt off my back if you needed it.
Bless you.
K
Who is speaking of dead works ???
The works that I am speaking on and defending is of those that the Holy Spirit does in and through me by the fruits of Spirit that are and will be evident in all true born again believers walk. Without those fruits evident in the believer our Lord Jesus says no fruit will have them cut off and burned. Also in Luke 12 Jesus shows us an example of the disobedient servant, that when He comes those He finds not doing God's will in their life will be appointed a place with the unbelievers....
K
And I answered that as what James is speaking on is the works done from us that are driven by the fruits of the Holy Spirit.
James is not speaking of self works done to earn salvation, or works done without the guidance of the Spirit. James is just showing as the Apostle John also showed in 1 John 2-4 how a born again believers walk will look like if they have eternal life abiding in them, and then also shows how your walk would look like if you don't have eternal life abiding in you.
Jesus can not deny Himself and therefore the Holy Spirit also can not go against the Lord's teachings, so if a person is walking contrary to what the Lord said then this is proof the Holy Spirit is not in them or they are refusing to follow that guidance. Nowhere does the bible take our free will away that God has given us, as God does not want people forced into loving Him....He wants us to love Him freely !!!
J
James 1 from 21
Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your soul.
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
25
But whoso looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
2 20 But wilt you know, o vain man that faith without works is dead.
222 See you how faith wrought with his works and by WORKS was faith made perfect...
226 For as faith without the spirit is dead so faith without works is dead also
I could go on.
Self attaining, self glorifying, self appreciating.
Very Catholic in nature. I think this book was added later by the early church which had already veered from the easy Gospel message into law based tradition very much observed today in Confessionals, with relics bowing to crosses and celebrating pagan/pseudo Christians Holidays. Changing the Sabbath. Having a faith derived by self of self for self.
End of message, I do not wish to argue needlessly. My position is stated.
Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your soul.
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
25
But whoso looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
2 20 But wilt you know, o vain man that faith without works is dead.
222 See you how faith wrought with his works and by WORKS was faith made perfect...
226 For as faith without the spirit is dead so faith without works is dead also
I could go on.
Self attaining, self glorifying, self appreciating.
Very Catholic in nature. I think this book was added later by the early church which had already veered from the easy Gospel message into law based tradition very much observed today in Confessionals, with relics bowing to crosses and celebrating pagan/pseudo Christians Holidays. Changing the Sabbath. Having a faith derived by self of self for self.
End of message, I do not wish to argue needlessly. My position is stated.
K
No once again that is a misunderstanding of what the Apostle James is saying here, as by James stating being doers of the word and not just hearers only is a parallel passage to Luke 6:46-49;
Luke 6:46-49
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
A true believer in the Lord will be a doer of the word because the Holy Spirit will guide them in how to act, talk, and walk.
The perfect law of liberty that is being referenced in verse 25 of James 1 is in the commandments of the Lord our God, and not the 613 Mosaic written ordinances that do not apply. Jesus, Paul, and John all 3 say believers will uphold and keep the Lord's commandments to follow them, and this is because the Holy Spirit will not and can not lead a person in disobedience to the gospel.
This book of James has nothing to do with keeping the Mosaic laws for salvation, as you can find a parallel passage to what James is teaching in the gospel books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. It was not added on later it has only been rejected by some because it is a very convicting book that some do not like, because it makes a person look at their own faults/sins that are still doing. Not to many people like to be shown this, but Apostle Paul even states many of time how believers can and can not walk. All scripture works together and nothing contradicts if taken in its proper context !!!
How is it then that you state that Christ did not have a human soul?
Did you not read what you posted yourself?
The body is not the shell of the soul, but is part of it.
The Bible defines this, and so does science (the study of God's handiwork)
Why else would chemical reactions control our emotions, if not that emotions are seated in the physical?
The Bible shows the soul as the true individual, and all that accompanies it. The soul is the connection between the body and spirit, and consists of both.
What verse supports Jesus as not having a human soul? Why make up such doctrines?
Did you not read what you posted yourself?
The body is not the shell of the soul, but is part of it.
The Bible defines this, and so does science (the study of God's handiwork)
Why else would chemical reactions control our emotions, if not that emotions are seated in the physical?
The Bible shows the soul as the true individual, and all that accompanies it. The soul is the connection between the body and spirit, and consists of both.
What verse supports Jesus as not having a human soul? Why make up such doctrines?
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It is hard to bear, seeing the accusation of "wise in his own eyes", when all I am doing is trying to get a Biblical answer from you about your doctrine.
I don't claim to understand the Trinity, or the inner workings of how Christ was both man and God, but I accept them.
And, I defend these things, upon the Word.
When someone attacks the humanity of Christ, I will answer them with Truth.
I don't claim to understand the Trinity, or the inner workings of how Christ was both man and God, but I accept them.
And, I defend these things, upon the Word.
When someone attacks the humanity of Christ, I will answer them with Truth.
And here is the soul of Christ shown clearly:
John 12:27-28
How is the soul of God torn between a physical desire and the spiritual purpose?
Because our Lord can actually relate to us! Because He knows our struggles, and overcame them!!
Do you not see and feel the power in this? It is the power of His Name. The Son of Man. The Son of God.
It proves our ability to overcome, because He had the same tools we have been given!
He cast off Deity, and re-earned it!
John 12:27-28
How is the soul of God torn between a physical desire and the spiritual purpose?
Because our Lord can actually relate to us! Because He knows our struggles, and overcame them!!
Do you not see and feel the power in this? It is the power of His Name. The Son of Man. The Son of God.
It proves our ability to overcome, because He had the same tools we have been given!
He cast off Deity, and re-earned it!
Did Christ work miracles by His own power, or by the power of the Spirit?
You should know this, as it is clear in Scripture that He did not use His own power.
In this same question, when Christ resisted sin, and pursued righteousness,
did He do so by His own power, or by the Spirit?
He gave up such advantage, humbled Himself, and submitted.
He lived as the very image of God
which the 1st Adam was created to be,
with no advantage over Adam,
except the revelation given in the Word and through the Spirit,
also given to us.
Yes. We can live as Christ, because He has shown the Way.
To deny His true humanity, is to deny our ability to follow Him, because we are not God.
You should know this, as it is clear in Scripture that He did not use His own power.
In this same question, when Christ resisted sin, and pursued righteousness,
did He do so by His own power, or by the Spirit?
He gave up such advantage, humbled Himself, and submitted.
He lived as the very image of God
which the 1st Adam was created to be,
with no advantage over Adam,
except the revelation given in the Word and through the Spirit,
also given to us.
Yes. We can live as Christ, because He has shown the Way.
To deny His true humanity, is to deny our ability to follow Him, because we are not God.
No God has free will. He just does not have the free will capacity to do evil like you and me. God is love. God is good. God is Holy and cannot be tempted by sin.
Maybe it will help if we broke down the topic of Free will for you.
Free will is defined in a few different ways. Here is one of it's definitions.
Free will (Noun) - The ability to act at one's own discretion.
http://oxforddictionaries.com/defini...sh/free%2Bwill
In fact, the origin of the word "will" is especially important to look at, too. It says this..
Will (Verb) - To wish, desire, want, to will, or to choose.
Online Etymology Dictionary
Now, how can you have the desire for anything or to choose differently if you did not have the free choice (i.e. free will) to choose or to not to choose in the first place?
Anyways, here is a list of the different types of Free Will that I hope you shall consider.
The Three different types of Free Will:
#1. Man's Limited Slave to Sin Type Free Will.
#2. Man's Limited Redemptive Type Free Will.
#3. God's Limited to Doing Only Good Type Free Will.
And the hypothetical Free Will that does not exist for any being within our universe.
Which is...
#1. Ultimate or Absolute Free Will.
A. Man's Limited Slave to Sin Free Will:
All non-believers or people who have not genuinely accepted Christ as their Savior are slaves to sin in some way. Now, this does not mean that unbelievers are not capable of making limited free will choices that are correct or good for their own well being (like choosing not to murder, steal, fornicate, or do drugs). However, on the other hand they are limited in their free will in the sense that they are slaves to sin and will have some type of sin within their life that separates them from God. They are also incapable of repentance unless God grants it to them based upon His Foreknowledge of their free will choice if they will genuinely choose Him or not.
B. Man's Limited Redemptive Type Free Will:
All true believers in Christ or those who genuinely accept Jesus as their Savior are set free from being a slave to sin. This gives the believer a higher level of free will than that of a non-believer who is incapable of not sinning habitually. Now, does this mean that the believer does not have the free will to no longer sin anymore? No, most certainly not. It just means that they are no longer bound to sin anymore and are given a higher status of limited free will (or limited choices). They are also not forced against their free will to have a continued salvation or to still be a believer in Christ if they decide to change their minds, too. They still must choose each day to serve the Lord or to not serve the Lord. For a believer can forfeit his or her salvation if they do not live for Christ and become a new creature; Thus, showing that they were born again.
C. God's Limited to Doing Only Good Type Free Will:
God is limited to doing only that which is good and right. For God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. God is love and in Him is no evil. He is the very embodiment of all that is Holy, just, perfect, and good in this life. For there is none good but God. In other words, God is incapable of doing any type of evil or sin. He is perfect and good in every way. His limitation is that He can only do that which is good and right. Which of course is a good limitation to have. So praise be to our God for being all that is loving and good.
D. Ultimate or Absolute Free Will:
No being in the universe has absolute or ultimate free will. For if absolute free will existed, then there would have to be a being who could do whatever they wanted whether good or evil with no restrictions or consequences attached whatsoever. In other words, this concept of Free Will is purely imaginary because no being possesses this type of Free Will type characteristics.
In other words, It is not God's will or desire that you sin and reject Him. Yes, you are under His creation, sovereign rule, and divine plan (because the Lord can work both good and evil for His purposes), but God does not approve of someone doing evil as if it was His approved of will or desire for your life. God is good. Not evil.
For the moment you take away free will (not ultimate free will) is the moment you make God responsible for directly creating evil and sin. However, there is no darkness in God at all. God created free willed beings that made the decision to be evil and to sin. God did not force Adam and Eve to rebel. They had a choice to either choose life or to choose death. They chose death. Not because God wanted them to. It was because they wanted to choose death
Maybe it will help if we broke down the topic of Free will for you.
Free will is defined in a few different ways. Here is one of it's definitions.
Free will (Noun) - The ability to act at one's own discretion.
http://oxforddictionaries.com/defini...sh/free%2Bwill
In fact, the origin of the word "will" is especially important to look at, too. It says this..
Will (Verb) - To wish, desire, want, to will, or to choose.
Online Etymology Dictionary
Now, how can you have the desire for anything or to choose differently if you did not have the free choice (i.e. free will) to choose or to not to choose in the first place?
Anyways, here is a list of the different types of Free Will that I hope you shall consider.
The Three different types of Free Will:
#1. Man's Limited Slave to Sin Type Free Will.
#2. Man's Limited Redemptive Type Free Will.
#3. God's Limited to Doing Only Good Type Free Will.
And the hypothetical Free Will that does not exist for any being within our universe.
Which is...
#1. Ultimate or Absolute Free Will.
A. Man's Limited Slave to Sin Free Will:
All non-believers or people who have not genuinely accepted Christ as their Savior are slaves to sin in some way. Now, this does not mean that unbelievers are not capable of making limited free will choices that are correct or good for their own well being (like choosing not to murder, steal, fornicate, or do drugs). However, on the other hand they are limited in their free will in the sense that they are slaves to sin and will have some type of sin within their life that separates them from God. They are also incapable of repentance unless God grants it to them based upon His Foreknowledge of their free will choice if they will genuinely choose Him or not.
B. Man's Limited Redemptive Type Free Will:
All true believers in Christ or those who genuinely accept Jesus as their Savior are set free from being a slave to sin. This gives the believer a higher level of free will than that of a non-believer who is incapable of not sinning habitually. Now, does this mean that the believer does not have the free will to no longer sin anymore? No, most certainly not. It just means that they are no longer bound to sin anymore and are given a higher status of limited free will (or limited choices). They are also not forced against their free will to have a continued salvation or to still be a believer in Christ if they decide to change their minds, too. They still must choose each day to serve the Lord or to not serve the Lord. For a believer can forfeit his or her salvation if they do not live for Christ and become a new creature; Thus, showing that they were born again.
C. God's Limited to Doing Only Good Type Free Will:
God is limited to doing only that which is good and right. For God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. God is love and in Him is no evil. He is the very embodiment of all that is Holy, just, perfect, and good in this life. For there is none good but God. In other words, God is incapable of doing any type of evil or sin. He is perfect and good in every way. His limitation is that He can only do that which is good and right. Which of course is a good limitation to have. So praise be to our God for being all that is loving and good.
D. Ultimate or Absolute Free Will:
No being in the universe has absolute or ultimate free will. For if absolute free will existed, then there would have to be a being who could do whatever they wanted whether good or evil with no restrictions or consequences attached whatsoever. In other words, this concept of Free Will is purely imaginary because no being possesses this type of Free Will type characteristics.
In other words, It is not God's will or desire that you sin and reject Him. Yes, you are under His creation, sovereign rule, and divine plan (because the Lord can work both good and evil for His purposes), but God does not approve of someone doing evil as if it was His approved of will or desire for your life. God is good. Not evil.
For the moment you take away free will (not ultimate free will) is the moment you make God responsible for directly creating evil and sin. However, there is no darkness in God at all. God created free willed beings that made the decision to be evil and to sin. God did not force Adam and Eve to rebel. They had a choice to either choose life or to choose death. They chose death. Not because God wanted them to. It was because they wanted to choose death
That was a very detailed philosophical post that has zero bearing on Scripture, and mere conjecture.
If you want to have a philosophical debate instead of a Scriptural one, then have it:
If it is limited, then it is not "free". It is "contained" will.
God is free to work at His own discretion. Thankfully, for our sake, God is Good and Loving, and therefore what He chooses is Good and Loving. This doesn't limit God's choice.
God is not in a box. He tells us who He is, and shows us what He is like, but that doesn't make Him tame, boxed, or contained. He does not limit Himself by these things, but just is not the opposite of Himself, and therefore does not do things opposed to His Own Character.
His Character is not a chain upon His freewill. His Character is the discretion by which He operates... as all freewill beings operate by their own discretion.
If you want to have a philosophical debate instead of a Scriptural one, then have it:
If it is limited, then it is not "free". It is "contained" will.
God is free to work at His own discretion. Thankfully, for our sake, God is Good and Loving, and therefore what He chooses is Good and Loving. This doesn't limit God's choice.
God is not in a box. He tells us who He is, and shows us what He is like, but that doesn't make Him tame, boxed, or contained. He does not limit Himself by these things, but just is not the opposite of Himself, and therefore does not do things opposed to His Own Character.
His Character is not a chain upon His freewill. His Character is the discretion by which He operates... as all freewill beings operate by their own discretion.
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Christ has a soul (Mind, will, and emotions). But is a divine eternal soul. It is eternal soul of the Son of God. Christ merely chose to suppress his Omniscience (i.e. to have all knowledge) so as to be a servant to the Father and to be like us (Philippians 2:6-9).
No. A person's soul can live on after their body dies. It is a false teaching that the soul only lives when we are alive.
Psalm 16:10 says, "For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption."
"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled." (Revelation 6:9-11).
Not denying that living beings have souls. But when the body dies, the soul and the spirit continue on. Christ already had a soul before the Incarnation. There would have been no need to create another one because He has one already.
I am not making anything up. I am merely going by what Scripture says. In John chapter 8, Jesus said he was the "I AM" as the answer to how he could have known Abraham. If Jesus' soul just came into being at his birth, then technically he could not say that (Because he would be an almagam of a new being because of some false idea that he received a created human soul). Also, in Micah 5:2, we learn that a Messianic prophecy of Christ tells us how he will be a ruler in Israel and his goings forth have been from of old or everlasting. This ruler in Israel is referring to Jesus. Yet, his existence pre-dated the Incarnation.
"But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting." (Micah 5:2).
Jesus said, "Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was" (John 17:5). Here Christ is speaking of a time long before His incarnation. If Jesus was a newly created being with a human soul (who was new and unique) then He could not say this to the Father.
We also learn that the Son of God did not have any beginning of days and nor does he have an end to his life.
"Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.:" (Hebrews 7:3).
John the Baptist said Jesus existed before him.
"John testified about Him and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'" (John 1:15 NASB).
No. A person's soul can live on after their body dies. It is a false teaching that the soul only lives when we are alive.
Psalm 16:10 says, "For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption."
"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled." (Revelation 6:9-11).
Not denying that living beings have souls. But when the body dies, the soul and the spirit continue on. Christ already had a soul before the Incarnation. There would have been no need to create another one because He has one already.
I am not making anything up. I am merely going by what Scripture says. In John chapter 8, Jesus said he was the "I AM" as the answer to how he could have known Abraham. If Jesus' soul just came into being at his birth, then technically he could not say that (Because he would be an almagam of a new being because of some false idea that he received a created human soul). Also, in Micah 5:2, we learn that a Messianic prophecy of Christ tells us how he will be a ruler in Israel and his goings forth have been from of old or everlasting. This ruler in Israel is referring to Jesus. Yet, his existence pre-dated the Incarnation.
"But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting." (Micah 5:2).
Jesus said, "Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was" (John 17:5). Here Christ is speaking of a time long before His incarnation. If Jesus was a newly created being with a human soul (who was new and unique) then He could not say this to the Father.
We also learn that the Son of God did not have any beginning of days and nor does he have an end to his life.
"Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.:" (Hebrews 7:3).
John the Baptist said Jesus existed before him.
"John testified about Him and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'" (John 1:15 NASB).
You seem to misunderstand the need of the Resurrection.
The soul includes the body.
Christ had human emotions. A human soul. He was indwelt with the fullness of God. The soul does not indwell a body. A spirit does that. Your assumptions are not accurate.
The God you make, is not the God of the Bible. Please reconsider who makes Truth.
The soul includes the body.
Christ had human emotions. A human soul. He was indwelt with the fullness of God. The soul does not indwell a body. A spirit does that. Your assumptions are not accurate.
The God you make, is not the God of the Bible. Please reconsider who makes Truth.
To all who say that we are saved by faith alone, both James and Romans tell us that we need to show our faith in some manner to be saved. In Romans it tells us that we are justified by faith, but we must profess it to be saved. Romans 10:10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. From the NIV
James 1:13 states "Let no one say when he is tempted. 'I am being tempted by God'; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone." And further "Every good thing bestowed and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation, or shifting shadow." (emphasis added) We know that God is not a God of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33). Psalm 18:30 tells us "As for God, His way is blameless" and "Thou art not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness; no evil dwells with Thee (Psalm 5:4). Also, "The Lord is righteous in all His ways, and kind in all His deeds." (Psalm 145:17). 1 John 1:5 says, "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." 1 John 4:8 says God is love. Mark 10:18 says God alone is good. In other words, God is not capable of doing sin or evil. It's outside His character. God is Holy, just, and right in all He does.
Source used:
Isaiah, God and Evil - Come Reason Ministries
Please take note that I do not believe all views expressed by the author of this site. I merely agree with the portion of the article I quoted.
Source used:
Isaiah, God and Evil - Come Reason Ministries
Please take note that I do not believe all views expressed by the author of this site. I merely agree with the portion of the article I quoted.