HAVE WE FORGOTTEN THE REFORMATION AND WHY WE AREN'T ROMAN CATHOLICS?

[mailmandan]

What I teach comes straight out of the Bible. And the Church of Christ is not Campbell-ism. Many false churches branched off of the one Christ created. Some people recognized this and said “Wait a minute, we’ve drifted away from the truth.” Then they made a movement back to Christ’s teachings- that is not creating a new church- that is going back to the one Christ created- which is what Campbell did. Christ’s church existed long before Campbell. And like Campbell, we are all to stand up when we see people go away from Christ’s teaching, and lead them back to it- even if it is an entire congregation, or many congregations.

The scriptures that you quote come straight out of the Bible, but your 5 step plan of salvation comes straight out of Campbellism. Your theology has originated with men, namely THOMAS CAMPBELL, ALEXANDER CAMPBELL, WALTER SCOTT, and BARTON W. STONE. Did these men actually "restore" the gospel, the church, and true New Testament worship, as they claim, or did they simply create another sect bent on a more dogmatic sectarianism than others they renounced?

 

[mailmandan]

I agree that faith exists before it produces deeds, but it will die if it does not produce deeds.

You agree that faith exists BEFORE IT PRODUCES DEEDS and we are saved through faith. The point that James is making is, not that faith will die if it does not produce deeds, but that if someone says-claims they have faith but lacks resulting evidential works (James 2:14) demonstrates that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not genuine faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

I do not agree that we are not saved through faith and deeds.

So you believe that we are saved through faith AND DEEDS? So do Roman Catholics, Mormons and other works-salvationists. Difference in style, but same in substance -- "works based" false gospel.

Let’s say between you and Christ’s blood (which is the only thing that saves) there is a sidewalk leading to a door, and behind that door is Christ’s blood- where you are home safe.

You must first go through the sidewalk in order to reach the door. The squares of this sidewalk are hearing, believing, confessing, repenting, obeying, baptism (the door) - then you are in Christ - thus in contact with His blood.

That is a flawed analogy which equates to salvation by works. We must first hear the word of God before we can repent and believe the gospel, then we are in Christ (Ephesians 1:13). Repent actually "precedes" believe the gospel (the church of Christ reverses the scriptural order of repent and believe) and confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation, but are chronologically together (Romans 10:8-10). Water baptism FOLLOWS "believes in Him" and receiving salvation (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17).

Romans 3:24 - Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Faith, like many of the other steps, only saves you in the way that it leads you to Christ’s blood. You cannot take one step of faith and say you’re done, you’re saved. Because it is not faith, but through faith, through repentance, etc- you must go through the path that leads to Christ’s blood.

Faith in Christ is sufficient for salvation because the OBJECT of our faith (Christ and His finished work of redemption) is the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. No supplements needed (Ephesians 2:8,9). Your 5 step plan of salvation is the result of bad semantics and flawed hermeneutics. I at one time had temporarily attended the church of Christ so I understand how they try to "shoe horn" works "into" salvation through faith by distorting passages of scripture in an effort to "patch together" their so called gospel plan.

 

[Justice777]

Repenting to jesus and accepting him as king saves us and baptises us in the Holy Spirit depending on our walk in righteousness sowing good crops In good soil to bear good fruits and walking in jesus footsteps the father can grant us gifts depends how far you want to go why stop at faith push deeper ascend the heavinly realm .

 

[Mem]

From what I've gathered, the thread of the general argument being discussed here is going something like this...

Faith is evidence substantiated by works.

Argument #1. Evidence must be found...

and

Argument #2. Evidence must be planted...

Put thusly, it is clear which is the more legitimate way.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1. I am not a protestant, I do not even consider the roman church a church
2. I believe in Gods word, and it and it alone is my authority, I trust no man, no one should
3. We should be praising Gods work 2000 years ago. not something that happened 500 years ago.. God said he would never let his church fail, he proved it,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

From what I've gathered, the thread of the general argument being discussed here is going something like this...

Faith is evidence substantiated by works.

Argument #1. Evidence must be found...

and

Argument #2. Evidence must be planted...

Put thusly, it is clear which is the more legitimate way.

God does not need evidence, He knows who has real faith vs who has mere belief.

Living faith works.

 

[Mem]

God does not need evidence, He knows who has real faith vs who has mere belief.

Living faith works.

What, then, does God search hearts for?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What, then, does God search hearts for?

so there are things God does not know? He is not really perfect after all?

 

[Mem]

so there are things God does not know? He is not really perfect after all?

To lead the question is no legitimate tactic of valid argument.

 

[preacher4truth]

so there are things God does not know? He is not really perfect after all?

The heresy of Open Theism.

 

[Justice777]

I agree that faith works but if you follow the gifts which we use to edify and prove and strengthen the church it requires obedience / sowing a good crop like Christ did but sure if you happy just being saved each to their own but I would encourage you to rise to your calling and be a fisher of men proclaim the word walk out in faith and evangelise god see the humility in this and rewards with miracles . The enemy does not mind a Christian with faith to sit idle with his judgement pass ticket it’s of no threat to him. It’s the belief of Christ as healer and king of kings which allows us to command Satan’s army to bow in his name you can declare it and their is power in it complete healing mental and physical god wants us to fish for more use the gifts reclaim what the enemy took from us .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To lead the question is no legitimate tactic of valid argument.

Can you answer or not?

If God knows all, which he does, then why does God need proof.

You either understand God is omniscient, or you think he is not.

 

[Mem]

Can you answer or not?

If God knows all, which he does, then why does God need proof.

You either understand God is omniscient, or you think he is not.

I might answer you question, but that you do not think you should grant me the same courtesy?

 

[Justice777]

God is omnipresent omnipotent and omniscience everything is his will and it was his wish to make us in his image and give us freedom to choose right or wrong and gave us the ability to procreate .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I might answer you question, but that you do not think you should grant me the same courtesy?

I asked first.

God had abraham offer his son, Did God not already know abraham would do it?

Why did God seasrch abrahams heart to see, for HIS benefit, or for abrahams benefit?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

God does not need evidence, He knows who has real faith vs who has mere belief.

Living faith works.

so God never tests anyone?

people do not go through trials?

real faith vs mere belief

this is one confusing post there eg

ps...I really do not understand what it is you believe exactly because you seem to contradict yourself with what you write

I'm not really asking either. it's just confusing what you wrote concerning faith and belief.

 

[Justice777]

When we ask why God tests us or allows us to be tested, we are admitting that testing does indeed come from Him. When God tests His children, He does a valuable thing. David sought God’s testing, asking Him to examine his heart and mind and see that they were true to Him (Psalm 26:2; 139:23). When Abram was tested by God in the matter of sacrificing Isaac, Abram obeyed (Hebrews 11:17–19) and showed to all the world that he is the father of faith (Romans 4:16).

In both the Old and New Testaments, the words translated “test” mean “to prove by trial.” Therefore, when God tests His children, His purpose is to prove that our faith is real. Not that God needs to prove it to Himself since He knows all things, but He is proving to us that our faith is real, that we are truly His children, and that no trial will overcome our faith.

In His Parable of the Sower, Jesus identifies the ones who fall away as those who receive the seed of God’s Word with joy, but, as soon as a time of testing comes along, they fall away. James says that the testing of our faith develops perseverance, which leads to maturity in our walk with God (James 1:3–4). James goes on to say that testing is a blessing, because, when the testing is over and we have “stood the test,” we will “receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him” (James 1:12). Testing comes from our heavenly Father who works all things together for good for those who love Him and who are called to be the children of God (Romans 8:28).

The testing or trials we undergo come in various ways. Becoming a Christian will often require us to move out of our comfort zones and into the unknown. Perseverance in testing results in spiritual maturity and completeness. This is why James wrote, “Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds” (James 1:2). The testing of faith can come in small ways and daily irritations; they may also be severe afflictions (Isaiah 48:10) and attacks from Satan (Job 2:7). Whatever the source of the testing, it is to our benefit to undergo the trials that God allows.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

When we ask why God tests us or allows us to be tested, we are admitting that testing does indeed come from Him. When God tests His children, He does a valuable thing. David sought God’s testing, asking Him to examine his heart and mind and see that they were true to Him (Psalm 26:2; 139:23). When Abram was tested by God in the matter of sacrificing Isaac, Abram obeyed (Hebrews 11:17–19) and showed to all the world that he is the father of faith (Romans 4:16).

In both the Old and New Testaments, the words translated “test” mean “to prove by trial.” Therefore, when God tests His children, His purpose is to prove that our faith is real. Not that God needs to prove it to Himself since He knows all things, but He is proving to us that our faith is real, that we are truly His children, and that no trial will overcome our faith.

In His Parable of the Sower, Jesus identifies the ones who fall away as those who receive the seed of God’s Word with joy, but, as soon as a time of testing comes along, they fall away. James says that the testing of our faith develops perseverance, which leads to maturity in our walk with God (James 1:3–4). James goes on to say that testing is a blessing, because, when the testing is over and we have “stood the test,” we will “receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him” (James 1:12). Testing comes from our heavenly Father who works all things together for good for those who love Him and who are called to be the children of God (Romans 8:28).

The testing or trials we undergo come in various ways. Becoming a Christian will often require us to move out of our comfort zones and into the unknown. Perseverance in testing results in spiritual maturity and completeness. This is why James wrote, “Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds” (James 1:2). The testing of faith can come in small ways and daily irritations; they may also be severe afflictions (Isaiah 48:10) and attacks from Satan (Job 2:7). Whatever the source of the testing, it is to our benefit to undergo the trials that God allows.

where did you quote this from?

you should supply your source otherwise it's plagerism

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Repenting to jesus and accepting him as king saves us and baptises us in the Holy Spirit depending on our walk in righteousness sowing good crops In good soil to bear good fruits and walking in jesus footsteps the father can grant us gifts depends how far you want to go why stop at faith push deeper ascend the heavinly realm .

?????????????

confusing to say the least

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Originally Posted by OneFaith

You say faith is accompanied by works- that’s like saying (to make cookies) butter is accompanied by sugar, and flour, and chocolate chips. Faith saves, but it does not save alone without the other ingredients- works, repentance, confession, baptism, truth, faithfulness to God, etc.



I totally disagree with this.. Works + Grace = Salvation belief system..

No our salvation is 100% secured by believing Jesus and trusting in the Atonement He secured for our salvation.. It has Nothing to do with our works.. Nothing..

right

this is where understanding runs into the ground when people confuse what only God can do with what they can do

salvation produces works etc. it does not secure, keep or earn salvation