Have you believed the false grace message?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
W

wsblind

Guest
#681
#681
Skinski7 said:
Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,


The reward of eternal life is only for those whom obey righteousness.
Click to expand...
Rom 6:23~~New American Standard Bible
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Rom 11:29~~
New American Standard Bible
for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#682
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
#682
eternally-gratefull said:
so your trying to earn it. (you earn rewards)

why then do you deny your tryign to earn salvation?

ps. Salvation is a gift,, It can never be earned.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

the wage or reward of sin is death,, And every man woman and child has earned it.

The GIFT of God is eternal life, And no one will ever earn it..
Click to expand...
Obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.
What is more precious to a man than that he guard this faith when it is what God saves him through?
I don't care if you think I'm trying to earn the saving of my soul through guarding this and examining to find the places where I am rejecting it and failing to use and grow it. I am treating as precious my most precious gift from Him, but I am okay with you thinking I am trampling on that gift. It doesn't hurt me or make me angry. And it doesn't make me think you aren't my brother.

His blood was shed to give me a way back to God and this faith became mine for the saving of my soul and I will not trample on either.

I am not so adamant about anything on earth than I am about this. And I'm okay with whatever you think of me because of this. I'm really okay with it, brother. :)
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#683
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
#683
eternally-gratefull said:
It is about reward.

He earned his reward of eternal death..

Everyone deserves that, Even you.. even I. That will be our reward if we are not by Gods mercy SAVED.. (not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by his mercy HE SAVED US)

salvation is not a reward, it is a gift..
Click to expand...
Then you have a contradiction that you must work out with the Spirits' help, because you are saying two contradictory things that can not both be true. Either the parable does not have anything to do with eternal life or death or it does have to do with eternal life or death.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#684
#684
Stunnedbygrace said:
Then you have a contradiction that you must work out with the Spirits' help, because you are saying two contradictory things that can not both be true. Either the parable does not have anything to do with eternal life or death or it does have to do with eternal life or death.
Click to expand...

who said anything about eternal life? That was you not me..

the people who took their talents and increased them did not earn eternal life..
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#685
#685
Stunnedbygrace said:
Obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.
What is more precious to a man than that he guard this faith when it is what God saves him through?
I don't care if you think I'm trying to earn the saving of my soul through guarding this and examining to find the places where I am rejecting it and failing to use and grow it. I am treating as precious my most precious gift from Him, but I am okay with you thinking I am trampling on that gift. It doesn't hurt me or make me angry. And it doesn't make me think you aren't my brother.

His blood was shed to give me a way back to God and this faith became mine for the saving of my soul and I will not trample on either.

I am not so adamant about anything on earth than I am about this. And I'm okay with whatever you think of me because of this. I'm really okay with it, brother. :)
Click to expand...
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

How much longer will you try to suggest eternal life is a wage?

You did not earn your faith, Your faith can not earn you eternal life. All it can do is RECEIVE eternal life..
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#686
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
#686
wsblind said:
A new title(reign and rank in the Kingdom), FREE access to the tree of life(Some believers won't have free access), the crown of life,the crown of righteousness, a uniform of glory and many many more.

Christ doesn't want us to be naked and least in His Kingdom. Why wouldn't you want to rule with Him? Why just sit in the bleachers?

He has His Best and His most ready and waiting for every believer. But, he does give us the choice to go for it, or just skate along.
Click to expand...
Some believers in heaven will not have access to the tree of life? Then how are they there, living forever?
What is the crown of life? Isn't it eternal life?
And are you saying some in heaven won't be clothed with His glory?
This makes heaven sound very imperfect...
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#687
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
#687
eternally-gratefull said:
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

How much longer will you try to suggest eternal life is a wage?

You did not earn your faith, Your faith can not earn you eternal life. All it can do is RECEIVE eternal life..
Click to expand...
Ah, EG, I have to go now.
I just don't know what else to say right now anyway.
One cannot call abiding a work of the flesh.
We do have some struggle to remain in it but it is necessary struggle.
If you take away continuing in faith and growing of faith and make it optional, I think you are doing something harmful.
God will help us all to look into this some more.
Good talking with you guys this morning, as always. :)
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#688
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
#688
In fact, I have never done any sort of concentrated study on the words faith and abiding. I think I'll look into all the verses together. :)
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#689
#689
Stunnedbygrace said:
Ah, EG, I have to go now.
I just don't know what else to say right now anyway.
One cannot call abiding a work of the flesh.
Click to expand...

It is if your trying to earn a what God calls a gift.
We do have some struggle to remain in it but it is necessary struggle.
Click to expand...
it is dangerous to say we earn salvation by this struggle. that means we have saved ourselves by continuing in tghe struggle..
If you take away continuing in faith and growing of faith and make it optional, I think you are doing something harmful.
Click to expand...

I am not making it optional.. Why do you keep saying this?
God will help us all to look into this some more.
Good talking with you guys this morning, as always. :)
Click to expand...

Amen and Amen,, We need to keep our eyes open.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#690
#690
Stunnedbygrace said:
In fact, I have never done any sort of concentrated study on the words faith and abiding. I think I'll look into all the verses together. :)
Click to expand...
if I may,, Add Wage/reward, and Gift as words to study, see what separates the two terms..
 
W

wsblind

Guest
#691
#691
Stunnedbygrace said:
Some believers in heaven will not have access to the tree of life? Then how are they there, living forever?
What is the crown of life? Isn't it eternal life?
And are you saying some in heaven won't be clothed with His glory?
This makes heaven sound very imperfect...
Click to expand...
Heaven is perfect. It is not equal though.

We have eternal life. FREE access to the tree of life is a privilege and reward.

The Crown of life is a reward that we may or may not receive. If we endure in Christ in this life, even in death, we will get the crown of life.Revelation 2:10 (NASB95)10 ‘Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.



I said "free" access. IMO, if we don't advance in the Christian way of life, we will have to get permission by His lord's and rulers because they have charge of His Garden.
King James Bible
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

And some will have a uniform of Glory. This garment Goes over our "under garments." or resurrection body.

New American Standard Bible
'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

His "name" is his new title and rank in the kingdom.
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#692
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
#692
eternally-gratefull said:

who said anything about eternal life? That was you not me..

the people who took their talents and increased them did not earn eternal life..
Click to expand...
Then why did the one who did not increase them earn eternal death? You said first that it had nothing to do with an eternal state and was definitely not addressing eternal state, but then you said it did because the one man received eternal death as the reward of what he had done. That's an eternal condition. If he received eternal death, then the ones who did the opposite of him must have received the opposite...
I think you should think it through because you should be certain of it instead of saying it has nothing to do with eternal life or eternal death and then saying for one mans soul it DID have to do with eternal state. It starts to look like you think the parables are directed toward unbelievers. When you apply the parable to you, it's about rewards and not eternal condition, but when you apply it to another man it becomes about eternal condition.
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#693
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
#693
wsblind said:
Heaven is perfect. It is not equal though.

We have eternal life. FREE access to the tree of life is a privilege and reward.

The Crown of life is a reward that we may or may not receive. If we endure in Christ in this life, even in death, we will get the crown of life.Revelation 2:10 (NASB95)10 ‘Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.



I said "free" access. IMO, if we don't advance in the Christian way of life, we will have to get permission by His lord's and rulers because they have charge of His Garden.
King James Bible
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

And some will have a uniform of Glory. This garment Goes over our "under garments." or resurrection body.

New American Standard Bible
'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

His "name" is his new title and rank in the kingdom.
Click to expand...
And will that permission we have to get ever be denied? Will it be like, let me think...yeah, okay, you may have access to the tree of life today, and then the next day...uh...no, we aren't giving you the permission to access the tree of life today, come back and ask tomorrow?
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#694
#694
Stunnedbygrace said:
Then why did the one who did not increase them earn eternal death? You said first that it had nothing to do with an eternal state and was definitely not addressing eternal state, but then you said it did because the one man received eternal death as the reward of what he had done. That's an eternal condition. If he received eternal death, then the ones who did the opposite of him must have received the opposite...
I think you should think it through because you should be certain of it instead of saying it has nothing to do with eternal life or eternal death and then saying for one mans soul it DID have to do with eternal state. It starts to look like you think the parables are directed toward unbelievers. When you apply the parable to you, it's about rewards and not eternal condition, but when you apply it to another man it becomes about eternal condition.
Click to expand...
[h=1][/h]"[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]For the wages of [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]sin is death, BUT the free gift of God is [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Rom. 6:23[/FONT]
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#695
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
#695
eternally-gratefull said:

It is if your trying to earn a what God calls a gift.

it is dangerous to say we earn salvation by this struggle. that means we have saved ourselves by continuing in tghe struggle..


I am not making it optional.. Why do you keep saying this?


Amen and Amen,, We need to keep our eyes open.
Click to expand...
Because I see that you do make it optional. I see you do this when you say even if we are unfaithful, He remains faithful. This removes the necessity of abiding in the trust that saves you. So I do not think you understand that verse if you make it to seem that continuing, abiding, persevering in that trust is optional. And it IS optional if your eternal state is not affected by it either way.
 
W

wsblind

Guest
#696
#696
Stunnedbygrace said:
And will that permission we have to get ever be denied? Will it be like, let me think...yeah, okay, you may have access to the tree of life today, and then the next day...uh...no, we aren't giving you the permission to access the tree of life today, come back and ask tomorrow?
Click to expand...
It may be denied? Maybe there are times for the toilet cleaning crews to come in and do their perfect job?:eek:

Seriously though, there is going to be order and certain ways to do things. It's not like your going to be able to take my broom from me when I am sweeping the bathrooms just because you want my broom.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#697
#697
Stunnedbygrace said:
Then why did the one who did not increase them earn eternal death?
Click to expand...
Are you saying you do not deserve eternal death as you stand right now??

and again, did the ones who increased earn eternal life because they increased?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#698
#698
Stunnedbygrace said:
Because I see that you do make it optional. I see you do this when you say even if we are unfaithful, He remains faithful. This removes the necessity of abiding in the trust that saves you. So I do not think you understand that verse if you make it to seem that continuing, abiding, persevering in that trust is optional. And it IS optional if your eternal state is not affected by it either way.
Click to expand...
You can say it all you want, it does not make it true.

I already told you at one time I became faithless.. Yet I never stopped believing Jesus was the messiah and that I needed saved, and that he could save me.
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#699
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
#699
wsblind said:
It may be denied? Maybe there are times for the toilet cleaning crews to come in and do their perfect job?:eek:

Seriously though, there is going to be order and certain ways to do things. It's not like your going to be able to take my broom from me when I am sweeping the bathrooms just because you want my broom.
Click to expand...
Hahaa, sorry. you lost me a little bit with this one...;)
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#700
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
#700
eternally-gratefull said:
You can say it all you want, it does not make it true.

I already told you at one time I became faithless.. Yet I never stopped believing Jesus was the messiah and that I needed saved, and that he could save me.
Click to expand...
Then what was this faithlessness you fell into? Define it for me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.