Have you ever changed your mind about baptism being essential to salvation?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
M

marrion

Guest
#21
#21
SOME OF US MAY THINK BAPTISM IN THE NAME OF jESUS CHRIST IS A TRIVIAL MATTER BECAUSE THEY FEEL THE SPIRIT OF GOD WORKING IN THEIR LIVES IN A VARIETY OF WAYS.I ENCOURAGE YOU TO READ THE FOLLOWING SCRIPTURE BREAKDOWNS.
The HOLY SPIRIT is POURED OUT UPON “ALL” FLESH (Both JUST AND UNJUST)[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]JOEL 2:28-29 – “And it shall come to pass afterward, [that] I will pour out my Spirit upon ALL flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my Spirit.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Yes, the HOLY SPIRIT is POURED OUT UPON ALL FLESH (both upon the JUST AND the UNJUST), no exceptions. Everyone can feel the moving of the Spirit especially in the last days, for it is typed to the former and latter rain. Just like rainfall, God sends the Holy Spirit to water all plant and animal life. It can fall upon the tares and the wheat, and both can shout halleluiah, but it does not change the seed at the core of the plant. The Spirit only brings to manifestation what is it at the core, for every seed will bring forth of its kind (Genesis 1:11). “By their fruits they ye shall know them”. Once plant life reaches its maturity during harvest time, they are known by their fruit. A son of God will manifest the life of God, while a son of perdition will manifest the works of Satan, and will come to full maturity also, by the same Holy Spirit anointing.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]MATTHEW 5:44-45- "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for HE maketh his SUN to RISE on the evil and on the good, and sendeth RAIN on the just and on the unjust."[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]MATTHEW 13:30- "Let both grow together until the HARVEST: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the TARES, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the WHEAT into my barn."[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]MATTHEW 7:20- "Wherefore by their FRUITS ye shall know them.""The true vine and the false vine both had the “same anointing”. The water fell on both of them. No wonder He warned us it would “deceive the very elected if it was possible”. think about it this way guys if anyone is claiming to have the holy spirit and has a relationship with Jesus but cannot accept any of the new testament commands which were written through the inspiration of the holy spirit then they may be operating under a different spirit.Jesus cannot deny his own word.2nd timothy 3:16 states that all scripture is given by inspiration of God so how can the holy spirit that lives on the inside of you deny the word of God which was written through the inspiration of the very same spirit?

Does having the Gifts of the Spirit (healing, speaking in tongues, miracles, etc) assure you that you are truly baptized with the Holy Ghost already?
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NOT SO. Though we believe in the nine (9) spiritual gifts as stipulated in 1 Corinthians Chapter 12 namely: (1) Prophesy (2) Word of Wisdom (3) Faith (4) Healing (5) Tongues (6) Interpretation of Tongues (7) Discernment (8) Word of Knowledge (9) Working of Miracles, yet these gifts can be impersonated by the devil. There will be “false anointed ones” and “false christs” in the last days to impersonate and to deceive the very elect if it were possible by using these gifts. Yes, they will be truly “anointed”, but false at the core. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Let’s look at Judas. JUDAS was one of the 12 disciples of Jesus Christ. Judas preached along with them and healed the sick, and cast out devils. But Judas had shown his true colors as the son of perdition when he sold Jesus for 30 pieces of silver. BALAAM was a prophet. But his true colors were manifested because of the love of money and popularity, he tried to curse Israel. JANNES AND JAMBRES were two magicians who withstood Moses by manifesting the same powers of turning their sticks into snakes in the sight of pharaoh. Therefore, miracles and signs are no true signs that one is a true servant of God. Even Lucifer himself was previously an “angel of light”.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]SCRIPTURES:[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]MATTHEW 7:21-23- "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not PROPHESIED in thy Name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy Name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]MATTHEW 24:24- "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall SHEW great SIGNS and WONDERS; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall DECEIVE the very ELECT."[/FONT]

[/FONT]
[/FONT]
 
M

marrion

Guest
#22
#22
wow Josh that post about the barbados pastor is definately sad man.God really does work in simplicity and i think if people would just take the time out to study the bible for themselves they would be able to see the truth clearly.and yes thats right the harlot church did change everything thus taking away the power of the gospel.But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.By changing the instructions which lead to the baptism of the holy ghost(repentance and baptism in Jesus name)you open people up to receiving a false birth which in turn opens up a gateway for the devil to come in and deceive people into thinking they are saved when they are not.we are living in the most deceptive age ever.may God have mercy on us.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
D

directline2iam

Banned
#23
Jul 25, 2013
1,329
19
0
#23
marrion said:
HISTORICAL FACTS AND RECORDS BRITANNICA ENCYCLOPEDIA - "Everywhere in the oldest sources, it states that baptism took place in the Name of Jesus Christ." (11th Edition/Vol.3/p.82)
CANNY ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGION - "The Early Church always baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus until the development of the Trinity Doctrine in the 3rd Century." (Pp. 53).
HASTINGS ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGION - "Christian Baptism was administered using the words "In the Name of Jesus". The use of a Trinity formula of any sort was not suggested in the early church history. Baptism was always in the Name of the Lord Jesus until the time of Justin Maryr when triune formula was used." (Volume 2/PP. 377-378.)
Click to expand...
Then why do the Acts say some were baptized in the name of John and some Paul etc.? not pickin, just askin:)
 
J

josh123

Guest
#24
#24
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. [h=3]1 John 4:1[/h]
true christians will bear the fruits of god
 
J

josh123

Guest
#25
#25
marrion said:
wow Josh that post about the barbados pastor is definately sad man.God really does work in simplicity and i think if people would just take the time out to study the bible for themselves they would be able to see the truth clearly.
Click to expand...
well they can't without the holy spirit but i believe we should honestly read the bible with common sense and try to figure out what exactly it is saying instead of just reading for reading sake and not understand
 
M

marrion

Guest
#26
#26
directline2iam, Paul himself REBAPTIZED the disciples of John the Baptist (Acts 19:1-5) in this same manner, saying, “Have ye received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed? They said, ‘We know not whether there be any Holy Ghost.’ Paul said, “How was you baptized?” They said,’ We’ve been baptized unto John.’ Then said Paul, “John verily baptized with baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him that should come after him, that is on CHRIST JESUS.” WHEN THEY HEARD THIS, they were baptized in the NAME of the LORD JESUS” .
PETER AND JOHN did the same to the SAMARITANS as well in Acts 10:48,” And he commanded them to be BAPTIZED in the NAME of the LORD JESUS” .

The GENTILES who were in the house of Cornelius who first received the Gospel were also baptized in this same manner (Acts 10:46-48) , “For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnified God. Then answered PETER, “Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? AND HE COMMANDED them to be BAPTIZED in the NAME of the LORD JESUS” (NIV).
 
M

marrion

Guest
#27
#27
Thats very true Josh.joel 2:38 says he would pour out his spirit upon all flesh so my advice would be for people to take advantage of this and start reading their bibles.Those people who have been to doctrate school and colleges and have received all kinds of phds,dd,etc etc need to try and not be wise in their own eyes because Jesus himself thanked the father for hiding the hidden mysteries of the bible from the eyes of the wise and the prudent and revealing it to babes and the humble.the common people heard him gladly.praise God
 
J

josh123

Guest
#28
#28
marrion said:
Thats very true Josh.joel 2:38 says he would pour out his spirit upon all flesh so my advice would be for people to take advantage of this and start reading their bibles.Those people who have been to doctrate school and colleges and have received all kinds of phds,dd,etc etc need to try and not be wise in their own eyes because Jesus himself thanked the father for hiding the hidden mysteries of the bible from the eyes of the wise and the prudent and revealing it to babes and the humble.the common people heard him gladly.praise God
Click to expand...
tht's gonna be very hard.. some people grow up in a religious spirit these people and very proud in their own conceit and will not listen to anyone
 
D

directline2iam

Banned
#29
Jul 25, 2013
1,329
19
0
#29
Acts 4:12 And there is salvation IN no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men BY which we must be saved."
Why do you sapose the words ,"in and by" aren't switched around?
So are we baptized in the Word or by the Word, or maybe both?
IN and BY funny little words aren't they. I think one has to look beyond funny little words and go for the meaning! We hear the Father BY his Word!
 
D

directline2iam

Banned
#30
Jul 25, 2013
1,329
19
0
#30
Acts 4:12 And there is salvation IN no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men BY which we must be saved."
Why do you sapose the words ,"in and by" aren't switched around?
So are we baptized in the Word or by the Word, or maybe both?
IN and BY funny little words aren't they. I think one has to look beyond funny little words and go for the meaning! We hear the Father BY his Word!

Also if I said to you, " What name do you go in", you wouldn't have a clue what I'm saying. But if I said,"what name do you go BY", you'd surly know what I'm communicating to you, yes?
 
D

directline2iam

Banned
#31
Jul 25, 2013
1,329
19
0
#31
Acts 4:12 And there is salvation IN no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men BY which we must be saved."
Why do you sapose the words ,"in and by" aren't switched around?
So are we baptized in the Word or by the Word, or maybe both?
IN and BY funny little words aren't they. I think one has to look beyond funny little words and go for the meaning! We hear the Father BY his Word!

Also if I said to you, " What name do you go in", you wouldn't have a clue what I'm saying. But if I said,"what name do you go BY", you'd surly know what I'm communicating to you, yes?
 
D

directline2iam

Banned
#32
Jul 25, 2013
1,329
19
0
#32
When you are baptized BY His Word, or IN the name of Jesus, it's all the same understanding. And to add the Father and Holy Spirit to the Word never stopped anyone from getting into Heaven. For they are all one God.
 
J

josh123

Guest
#33
#33
directline2iam said:
When you are baptized BY His Word, or IN the name of Jesus, it's all the same understanding. And to add the Father and Holy Spirit to the Word never stopped anyone from getting into Heaven. For they are all one God.
Click to expand...
if something starts wrong it will continue to go wrong unless the start has been corrected
 
D

directline2iam

Banned
#34
Jul 25, 2013
1,329
19
0
#34
marrion said:
directline2iam, Paul himself REBAPTIZED the disciples of John the Baptist (Acts 19:1-5) in this same manner, saying, “Have ye received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed? They said, ‘We know not whether there be any Holy Ghost.’ Paul said, “How was you baptized?” They said,’ We’ve been baptized unto John.’ Then said Paul, “John verily baptized with baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him that should come after him, that is on CHRIST JESUS.” WHEN THEY HEARD THIS, they were baptized in the NAME of the LORD JESUS” .
PETER AND JOHN did the same to the SAMARITANS as well in Acts 10:48,” And he commanded them to be BAPTIZED in the NAME of the LORD JESUS” .

The GENTILES who were in the house of Cornelius who first received the Gospel were also baptized in this same manner (Acts 10:46-48) , “For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnified God. Then answered PETER, “Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? AND HE COMMANDED them to be BAPTIZED in the NAME of the LORD JESUS” (NIV).
Click to expand...


The GENTILES who were in the house of Cornelius who first received the Gospel were also baptized in this same manner (Acts 10:46-48) , “For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnified God. Then answered PETER, “Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? AND HE COMMANDED them to be BAPTIZED in the NAME of the LORD JESUS” (NIV)./Q

This last part you put in about the gentiles is interesting IN that the Holy Spirit was given to people sometimes after water baptizem and sometimes before. And I would have to say that the ones who had the HS before they were baptized by water in, and, or by the Word, They received the baptizem of the Holy Spirit BY,IN, the Word of the Father. The Word is the Fathers Word. And the Spirit is the Power of the Father and the Word.

If someone came along baptizing in the name of the Father would we consider them to be baptized? no that's why the Apostles specifically used the name Jesus. For clarification.
 
D

directline2iam

Banned
#35
Jul 25, 2013
1,329
19
0
#35
josh123 said:
if something starts wrong it will continue to go wrong unless the start has been corrected
Click to expand...
Yes and that is why we need to correct people into proper understanding of the message, not the human made words.
 
C

Cino

Guest
#37
#37
The disciples were baptized in the Lord Jesus Christ, and Paul "laid his hands" on the disciples to received the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is a "seal" of the truth of Christ's doctrine within yourself. There are graces of the spirit that are given to all believers, but there are also "pretenders" to the gifts of the Holy Ghost. We can examine ourselves and ask if we received the Holy Spirit since we believed? The tree will be known by it's fruits. Do we bring forth the fruits of the Spirit? The "fruit" of the spirit is told to us in Corinthians. Do we walk in the Spirit? This is how we will see the true actions and living of the Holy Spirit in us, if we "walk" in the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is our "witness" of true believers. You can see the fruit on the branches, and you can the Holy Spirit truly living in someone if you see the fruit of the spirit within them.

If you study Acts 19:6, it talks about speaking in tongues and prophesying. They had the Spirit of prophecy that they might understand the mysteries of the kingdom of God themselves, and the gift of tongues, that they might preach them to every nation and "language". These men had a sudden "change" after they were "filled" with the Holy Ghost. The tongues here, if you study the Bible, will refer to them being able to speak the word of Jesus Christ in all "languages".... not jibber. It was so that every man and all nations could know the salvation through Jesus Christ.

This is why baptism with water and spirit is important. The water symbolizes the grave and burial of the old man dying to sin. You arise a new creature in your heart. Your heart is repented and clean. Why water? Because when Jesus died on the cross, and they pierced his side, water and blood both came flowing out. This is the blood he shed for us and the new testament of remission of sins, and the water to symbolize the death of the old man washed away. The Holy Spirit is also needed, to be "filled" with the spirit to "walk" in the spirit. If one has received gifts of the spirit, that is between him and God, but the important thing is for every Christian to "walk" in the spirit.

In our church we have water baptism, and after that, we have the elders lay their hands on the heads of the converts. The elders pray out loud while laying their hands on the heads of the converts, asking the Holy Spirit to come into that person and "fill" that person with the Spirit, as a "seal" of their baptism and covenant with the Lord. As the elder prays, of course, the convert or converts, silently prays and the church prays silently as well. Only believers are present. This is our practice in our church.

I want to say that of course, the Holy Spirit must work in our hearts to convict us of sin BEFORE we are even baptized. The Bible says faith comes by hearing, and hearing the word of God. So when we hear the word of God, it is that spirit that convicts us that we are sinners and need to repent and be baptized in Christ. But after the water baptism, the "seal" needs to be "complete", and this is where we have the laying on of the hands on the convert, as Apostle Paul did to the disciples in Acts. Acts 19:6 says "And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them". This is our practice in our church. Paul baptized the disciples with water and spirit.
 
C

CoooCaw

Guest
#38
#38
oldmanbill said:
Have you ever changed your mind about baptism being essential to salvation?
If so, what led to the change.
Click to expand...
no; i never believed it in the first place
 
J

john832

Senior Member
#39
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#39
clarkthompson said:
While i believe in baptism, I disagree with the verse you picked because evryoneis born of the water but, not all are born of the Spirit. I believe baptism shows other believers are commitment to the Lord.
Click to expand...
Well disagree with Christ all you want, but He says that one must be born of water AND the Holy Spirit.

Again I say, opinions vary but Christ is the final authority.
 
C

CoooCaw

Guest
#40
#40
john832 said:
Well disagree with Christ all you want, but He says that one must be born of water AND the Holy Spirit.

Again I say, opinions vary but Christ is the final authority.
Click to expand...
the verse you quote has nothing to do with baptism
 
You must log in or register to reply here.