he that is righteous is righteous and he that commiteth sin is of the devil
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E
Yahchanan 5:14 (John) 5:14, "Afterward, Yahshua found him in the sacred precincts and said to him: Behold, you are healed. Sin no more, or a worse thing will come upon you."
Not sin but dont call it sin, STOP sinning
Where did I say that?
Yahchanan 5:14 (John) 5:14, "Afterward, Yahshua found him in the sacred precincts and said to him: Behold, you are healed. Sin no more, or a worse thing will come upon you."
Not sin but dont call it sin, STOP sinning.
So?
Where in that post or any post did I say I was without sin?
I dont see an "I" or a "me" in there?
H
Hi Hizikyah,
Yes, you did understand me correctly. Our failings in regards to the law are not sin.
But remember, Christians are not under the law, Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 4:24, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9.
And whatever the law says it says t those under it, Rom 3:19.
Hence we see from scripture that we cannot be charged with transgression of the law, as we're not under the law.
I can see that you have missed my main point. Our righteousness is by faith.
Please correct me if I misunderstand you, but it seems that you are saying Christians are not righteous if they do not obey the law perfectly. Is that correct?
I agree with Rom 6:1-2. Christians have died to sin. Our old man was crucified with Christ (Rom 6:6). and he who has died has been freed from sin (Rom 6:7). So with this in mind, how can we still live in sin? As believers are in Christ we simply cannot be charged with sin. Rom 6:6 confirms what I said in my previous post.
What is this willful sin Heb 10:26 speaks of?
I spoke on this in my previous post.
Gal 2:18
For if I build again the things which I destroyed (righteousness by works of the law),I make myself a transgressor/Sinner
So Heb 10:26 refers to those who turn back to the law for righteousness, in spite of having had the knowledge of the truth of the gospel of Christ. Such are in unbelief. They are a dog returning to it's vomit (2Pet 2:22), rejecting Christ's sacrifice by turning back to the law to determine righteousness. They are willful sinners choosing the sin of unbelief (John 16:9) by choosing to be a sinner/transgressor under the law (as they will only fail to keep the law perfectly).
I agree.
Only past sin was remitted at the cross. After we receive Christ there is no more subsequent sin that can be charged against us.
I'm saying that if someone brings themselves under the law to determine their righteousness, then they will be found to be a transgressor/Sinner (James 2:10). Such people are of the devil, as they seek to be perfected by the flesh. They are in unbelief. They reject God's will that we believe on Jesus, John 6:40. They reject righteousness by faith.
Here you contradict you earlier statement.
You said: "none are saved by works of the Law"
But here you say that unless you obey the law perfectly (as that's what the law requires, James 2:10), then we're of the devil.
In other words you are in fact saying that we're saved by works of the law.
What do you think we have to do to establish the law?
Yes, you did understand me correctly. Our failings in regards to the law are not sin.
But remember, Christians are not under the law, Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 4:24, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9.
And whatever the law says it says t those under it, Rom 3:19.
Hence we see from scripture that we cannot be charged with transgression of the law, as we're not under the law.
I can see that you have missed my main point. Our righteousness is by faith.
Please correct me if I misunderstand you, but it seems that you are saying Christians are not righteous if they do not obey the law perfectly. Is that correct?
I agree with Rom 6:1-2. Christians have died to sin. Our old man was crucified with Christ (Rom 6:6). and he who has died has been freed from sin (Rom 6:7). So with this in mind, how can we still live in sin? As believers are in Christ we simply cannot be charged with sin. Rom 6:6 confirms what I said in my previous post.
What is this willful sin Heb 10:26 speaks of?
I spoke on this in my previous post.
Gal 2:18
For if I build again the things which I destroyed (righteousness by works of the law),I make myself a transgressor/Sinner
So Heb 10:26 refers to those who turn back to the law for righteousness, in spite of having had the knowledge of the truth of the gospel of Christ. Such are in unbelief. They are a dog returning to it's vomit (2Pet 2:22), rejecting Christ's sacrifice by turning back to the law to determine righteousness. They are willful sinners choosing the sin of unbelief (John 16:9) by choosing to be a sinner/transgressor under the law (as they will only fail to keep the law perfectly).
I agree.
Only past sin was remitted at the cross. After we receive Christ there is no more subsequent sin that can be charged against us.
I'm saying that if someone brings themselves under the law to determine their righteousness, then they will be found to be a transgressor/Sinner (James 2:10). Such people are of the devil, as they seek to be perfected by the flesh. They are in unbelief. They reject God's will that we believe on Jesus, John 6:40. They reject righteousness by faith.
Here you contradict you earlier statement.
You said: "none are saved by works of the Law"
But here you say that unless you obey the law perfectly (as that's what the law requires, James 2:10), then we're of the devil.
In other words you are in fact saying that we're saved by works of the law.
What do you think we have to do to establish the law?
How did I in anyway go against any of those verses by feeling responsible for my actions or wanting to evaluate myself? You see for years I (THIS IS ME NONE ELSE) was a "saved born again christian" that was a servant to sin. Until one day I said the most serious prayer I ever had, and 3 days later my life changed ( not getting into specifics but up side down changed) and realized I could not:
Yeremyah 7:10, "And then come and stand before Me in this House upon which My Name is called, and say; We are saved! to do all these abominations?"
i could not do that any longer, and this is when Yahweh began to send me truth and guidance, free will remains and if I sin I hold myself accountable, it is nobodys fault but mine if I transgress. If one dosent set their mind to obey the Spirit one will never obey the Spirit of Yahweh. Yahweh sends me strength to do what is right but dosent force me to do anything, the adversary tempts but cant force me to sin. certianly without Yahweh no man would have a chance, Romans 8:7-8 tell us one can not even subject himself to Yahweh's instruction with out Yahweh's Spirit, but that does not mean they then become an automoton, the strength is from Yahweh, the Spirit is from Yahweh but man can choose to follow its lead or reject it.I think there is a telling verses I want your view on, tell me do you think Shaul was accepting or rejecting Yahweh's Spitirt in this verse?
1 Corinthians 9:24-27, "Do you not know that those who run in a race all compete, but only one receives the prize? So run your race that you may lay hold of the prize, and make it yours. And everyone who competes conducts himself temperately in all things. Now they compete to obtain a perishable crown; but we for an imperishable crown. Therefore, I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man who beats the air. No, I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified."
1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
error is #4106
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: plané
Phonetic Spelling: (plan'-ay)
Short Definition: a wandering, error
Definition: a wandering; fig: deceit, delusion, error, sin.
Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say, then? Should we go on sinning, so that mercy and pardon may abound? By no means! How can we, who have died to sin, live in it any longer?"
1 timothy 4:1-2, "Now the Spirit speaks very plainly, that in the latter times osome will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons. Speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their conscience seared as with a hot iron."
Hebrews 6:3-6, "If indeed Yahweh permits, we will now proceed to advanced teaching. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, And the righteous, having come to know that which is spoken by Yahweh through the Law and the Prophets, the power of Yahweh, and the world to come, If they shall fall away, it is impossible for them to be renewed to repentance again. They have rejected the Son of Yahweh, and therefore are alienated from Yahweh."
Yahdah 1:4, "For there are certain men who have secretly crept in, who were before of old ordained for this condemnation, unholy men, who turn the undeserved pardon of our One Supreme Savior Yahweh into licentiousness, and deny Yahshua our Messiah."
Yeremyah 7:10, "And then come and stand before Me in this House upon which My Name is called, and say; We are saved! to do all these abominations?"
i could not do that any longer, and this is when Yahweh began to send me truth and guidance, free will remains and if I sin I hold myself accountable, it is nobodys fault but mine if I transgress. If one dosent set their mind to obey the Spirit one will never obey the Spirit of Yahweh. Yahweh sends me strength to do what is right but dosent force me to do anything, the adversary tempts but cant force me to sin. certianly without Yahweh no man would have a chance, Romans 8:7-8 tell us one can not even subject himself to Yahweh's instruction with out Yahweh's Spirit, but that does not mean they then become an automoton, the strength is from Yahweh, the Spirit is from Yahweh but man can choose to follow its lead or reject it.I think there is a telling verses I want your view on, tell me do you think Shaul was accepting or rejecting Yahweh's Spitirt in this verse?
1 Corinthians 9:24-27, "Do you not know that those who run in a race all compete, but only one receives the prize? So run your race that you may lay hold of the prize, and make it yours. And everyone who competes conducts himself temperately in all things. Now they compete to obtain a perishable crown; but we for an imperishable crown. Therefore, I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man who beats the air. No, I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified."
1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
error is #4106
plané: a wandering
Original Word: πλάνη, ης, ἡPart of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: plané
Phonetic Spelling: (plan'-ay)
Short Definition: a wandering, error
Definition: a wandering; fig: deceit, delusion, error, sin.
Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say, then? Should we go on sinning, so that mercy and pardon may abound? By no means! How can we, who have died to sin, live in it any longer?"
1 timothy 4:1-2, "Now the Spirit speaks very plainly, that in the latter times osome will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons. Speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their conscience seared as with a hot iron."
Hebrews 6:3-6, "If indeed Yahweh permits, we will now proceed to advanced teaching. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, And the righteous, having come to know that which is spoken by Yahweh through the Law and the Prophets, the power of Yahweh, and the world to come, If they shall fall away, it is impossible for them to be renewed to repentance again. They have rejected the Son of Yahweh, and therefore are alienated from Yahweh."
Yahdah 1:4, "For there are certain men who have secretly crept in, who were before of old ordained for this condemnation, unholy men, who turn the undeserved pardon of our One Supreme Savior Yahweh into licentiousness, and deny Yahshua our Messiah."
THOUGHT FOR THE DAY
Lesson our judgement of others. We never see the whole picture. Never.
there are 1,000 reasons a person can behave a particular way. We don't know what is going on in their movie that motivates them to act in that way. I never know how I'd behave if I were in the other shoes. Today little by little, it would be good to learn to be more forgiving. Learn to where we can come from a place of help, rather than Judgement.
Judgements are only based on what one sees, from their owns thoughts. From their own experiences. There is truly only one that knows all. that one would be and is the creator of all.
If one learns to listen to the creator as Jesus Christ revealed to all mankind. (Christ taught us, to do nothing or say nothing w/o Father's instruction first and foremost), we would make the right judgements, with out condemnation. ( coming from the one listening),much less likely
The ones that argued would reveal their true selves, as was done in the day of visitation from our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Steer clear from arguements, seek the truth in all things and one shall be free from the world and it's traps.
Brother Haz i am getting ready to log but if you post Yahweh willing i will reply later. OK
I disagree, in saying we cant be charged with sin any longer. If that were true this idea of "shall we continue in the sin" would be impossible and obselete.
Romans 6:1-2, "What, then, shall we say? shall we continue in the sin that the grace may abound? let it not be! we who died to the sin — how shall we still live in it?"
Also Shaul was certianly far in his walk, probably farther along then anybody we have ever met. If anything you did was no longer sin why would he say this?
1 Corinthians 9:24-27, "Do you not know that those who run in a race all compete, but only one receives the prize? So run your race that you may lay hold of the prize, and make it yours. And everyone who competes conducts himself temperately in all things. Now they compete to obtain a perishable crown; but we for an imperishable crown. Therefore, I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man who beats the air. No, I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified."
Perfectly was never a word that I wrote, and yes our faith does award us righteousness, however once we are followers of Yahshua we are to remove sin from our lives.
Yahchanan 5:14 (John) 5:14, "Afterward, Yahshua found him in the sacred precincts and said to him: Behold, you are healed. Sin no more, or a worse thing will come upon you."
Not sin but dont call it sin, STOP sinning.
1 Yahchanan 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Law is not in us."
This is post Sacrifice, and Yahshua is now high Priest and our mediator since:
Romans 3:25, "Whom Yahweh set forth as a sacrifice of atonement by His own blood, through the faith, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of Yahweh."
We can still have mercy, but we must ask forgivess, to say "If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar" clearly a sin is still a sin, but if we say its not a sin the Scriptures call us a liar. (not tryin to be mean Scriptures says that)
Acts 3:19, "Repent therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out; that times of refreshing may
come from the presence of Yahweh;"
Romans 6:6, "For we know this: that our old self was sacrificed with Him, so that the body of sin might be destroyed; in that, from now on, we would not serve sin."
This says nothing about not being charged with sin its about not having sin run your life, means we are not to and will have the strength to remove sin from our lives, by not sinning as a lifestyle. Again:"If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar" A sin is still a sin, it is that we are to stop doing these things.
What is this willful sin Heb 10:26 speaks of?
I spoke on this in my previous post.
Galation 2:17-18, " And if, seeking to be declared righteous in Christ, we ourselves also were found sinners, [is] then Christ a ministrant of sin? let it not be! for if the things I threw down, these again I build up, a transgressor I set myself forth. "
He is saying we have recieved righteousnees by the Messiah, and having recieved that if I still continue in sin I would be a transgressor and making Yahshua a minister of sin. CLEARLY THIS CAN NOT BE SO OR WE WONT GO TO THE KINGDOM.
All these verses are saying if you accept the Messiah and go back to living a sinful worldly life you will get the lake of fire, particularly Heb 10:26-31.
[/QUOTE]I'm saying that if someone brings themselves under the law to determine their righteousness, then they will be found to be a transgressor/Sinner (James 2:10). Such people are of the devil, as they seek to be perfected by the flesh. They are in unbelief. They reject God's will that we believe on Jesus, John 6:40. They reject righteousness by faith.
Here you contradict you earlier statement.
You said: "none are saved by works of the Law"
But here you say that unless you obey the law perfectly (as that's what the law requires, James 2:10), then we're of the devil.
In other words you are in fact saying that we're saved by works of the law.
What do you think we have to do to establish the law?[/QUOTE]
Again Romans 3:31, "Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"
Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! = Since we are followers of the Messiah do we riject the Law? NO
Rather, we establish the Law! We subject ourselves to the Law, which rightousness. It is not what cleanses us but it shows us what to do and what NOT to do.
Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in
Yahshua Messiah."
The saints of Yahweh keep His Laws/Commandments and have the faith of Yahshua.
Yaaqob (James) 2:26, “For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also.”
I disagree, in saying we cant be charged with sin any longer. If that were true this idea of "shall we continue in the sin" would be impossible and obselete.
Romans 6:1-2, "What, then, shall we say? shall we continue in the sin that the grace may abound? let it not be! we who died to the sin — how shall we still live in it?"
Also Shaul was certianly far in his walk, probably farther along then anybody we have ever met. If anything you did was no longer sin why would he say this?
1 Corinthians 9:24-27, "Do you not know that those who run in a race all compete, but only one receives the prize? So run your race that you may lay hold of the prize, and make it yours. And everyone who competes conducts himself temperately in all things. Now they compete to obtain a perishable crown; but we for an imperishable crown. Therefore, I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man who beats the air. No, I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified."
Perfectly was never a word that I wrote, and yes our faith does award us righteousness, however once we are followers of Yahshua we are to remove sin from our lives.
Yahchanan 5:14 (John) 5:14, "Afterward, Yahshua found him in the sacred precincts and said to him: Behold, you are healed. Sin no more, or a worse thing will come upon you."
Not sin but dont call it sin, STOP sinning.
1 Yahchanan 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Law is not in us."
This is post Sacrifice, and Yahshua is now high Priest and our mediator since:
Romans 3:25, "Whom Yahweh set forth as a sacrifice of atonement by His own blood, through the faith, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of Yahweh."
We can still have mercy, but we must ask forgivess, to say "If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar" clearly a sin is still a sin, but if we say its not a sin the Scriptures call us a liar. (not tryin to be mean Scriptures says that)
Acts 3:19, "Repent therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out; that times of refreshing may
come from the presence of Yahweh;"
Romans 6:6, "For we know this: that our old self was sacrificed with Him, so that the body of sin might be destroyed; in that, from now on, we would not serve sin."
This says nothing about not being charged with sin its about not having sin run your life, means we are not to and will have the strength to remove sin from our lives, by not sinning as a lifestyle. Again:"If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar" A sin is still a sin, it is that we are to stop doing these things.
What is this willful sin Heb 10:26 speaks of?
I spoke on this in my previous post.
Galation 2:17-18, " And if, seeking to be declared righteous in Christ, we ourselves also were found sinners, [is] then Christ a ministrant of sin? let it not be! for if the things I threw down, these again I build up, a transgressor I set myself forth. "
He is saying we have recieved righteousnees by the Messiah, and having recieved that if I still continue in sin I would be a transgressor and making Yahshua a minister of sin. CLEARLY THIS CAN NOT BE SO OR WE WONT GO TO THE KINGDOM.
All these verses are saying if you accept the Messiah and go back to living a sinful worldly life you will get the lake of fire, particularly Heb 10:26-31.
[/QUOTE]I'm saying that if someone brings themselves under the law to determine their righteousness, then they will be found to be a transgressor/Sinner (James 2:10). Such people are of the devil, as they seek to be perfected by the flesh. They are in unbelief. They reject God's will that we believe on Jesus, John 6:40. They reject righteousness by faith.
Here you contradict you earlier statement.
You said: "none are saved by works of the Law"
But here you say that unless you obey the law perfectly (as that's what the law requires, James 2:10), then we're of the devil.
In other words you are in fact saying that we're saved by works of the law.
What do you think we have to do to establish the law?[/QUOTE]
Again Romans 3:31, "Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"
Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! = Since we are followers of the Messiah do we riject the Law? NO
Rather, we establish the Law! We subject ourselves to the Law, which rightousness. It is not what cleanses us but it shows us what to do and what NOT to do.
Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in
Yahshua Messiah."
The saints of Yahweh keep His Laws/Commandments and have the faith of Yahshua.
Yaaqob (James) 2:26, “For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also.”
Spirit is willing and flesh is weak. That is truth here today and will be until the redemption of flesh.
So for now as Christ said we can nothing without him. Pentecost the Holy Ghost indwelling them and us today is of the utmost importance. Why?
Again only the Spirit of God can reveal truth. So I think we need God not only living in us, but through us. God in the drivers seat.
And 3,000 were saved that day, by God performing God works through those willing vessels, the Disciples. Now is this not for us here today, for God who knows all, and what to say if we will by our free will ask God to do in us and through us what we can't do, do you think God will do it?
[h=3]Matthew 10:16-20[/h]Living Bible (TLB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]“I am sending you out as sheep among wolves. Be as wary as serpents and harmless as doves. [SUP]17 [/SUP]But beware! For you will be arrested and tried, and whipped in the synagogues. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Yes, and you must stand trial before governors and kings for my sake. This will give you the opportunity to tell them about me, yes, to witness to the world.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]“When you are arrested, don’t worry about what to say at your trial, for you will be given the right words at the right time. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For it won’t be you doing the talking—it will be the Spirit of your heavenly Father speaking through you!
Now for me, I prefer to have God do the talking always, me the "I" out of the way and hidden in /God through Christ, make sense?
So for now as Christ said we can nothing without him. Pentecost the Holy Ghost indwelling them and us today is of the utmost importance. Why?
Again only the Spirit of God can reveal truth. So I think we need God not only living in us, but through us. God in the drivers seat.
And 3,000 were saved that day, by God performing God works through those willing vessels, the Disciples. Now is this not for us here today, for God who knows all, and what to say if we will by our free will ask God to do in us and through us what we can't do, do you think God will do it?
[h=3]Matthew 10:16-20[/h]Living Bible (TLB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]“I am sending you out as sheep among wolves. Be as wary as serpents and harmless as doves. [SUP]17 [/SUP]But beware! For you will be arrested and tried, and whipped in the synagogues. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Yes, and you must stand trial before governors and kings for my sake. This will give you the opportunity to tell them about me, yes, to witness to the world.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]“When you are arrested, don’t worry about what to say at your trial, for you will be given the right words at the right time. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For it won’t be you doing the talking—it will be the Spirit of your heavenly Father speaking through you!
Now for me, I prefer to have God do the talking always, me the "I" out of the way and hidden in /God through Christ, make sense?
Yahchanan 5:14 (John) 5:14, "Afterward, Yahshua found him in the sacred precincts and said to him: Behold, you are healed. Sin no more, or a worse thing will come upon you."
Not sin but dont call it sin, STOP sinning
Where did I say that?
Bottom line, the fight is between Flesh and Spirit of God
Ephesians 6:12 For we are not fighting against people made of flesh and blood, but against persons without bodies—the evil rulers of the unseen world, those mighty satanic beings and great evil princes of darkness who rule this world; and against huge numbers of wicked spirits in the spirit world
We are to see and understand the difference
Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
So how is it that anyone sins?
how is it that we don't?
Who gets the credit if we do not sin?
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
Now this is not for us to take for granted, rather as we are growing to understand truth, we appreciate Christ as our perfection for God to teach us how to say no to unrighteousness
Ephesians 6:12 For we are not fighting against people made of flesh and blood, but against persons without bodies—the evil rulers of the unseen world, those mighty satanic beings and great evil princes of darkness who rule this world; and against huge numbers of wicked spirits in the spirit world
We are to see and understand the difference
Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
So how is it that anyone sins?
how is it that we don't?
Who gets the credit if we do not sin?
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
Now this is not for us to take for granted, rather as we are growing to understand truth, we appreciate Christ as our perfection for God to teach us how to say no to unrighteousness
And if you say you do not sin, then I can't believe a word you ever say...
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
What I can believe is there is one who strives to obey, slips and falls occaissionally and his loving God applies grace to him and forgives him.
1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Then there is one who lives the way of sin...
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
What I can believe is there is one who strives to obey, slips and falls occaissionally and his loving God applies grace to him and forgives him.
1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Then there is one who lives the way of sin...
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
H
We disagree with each other here.
I see Rom 6:1,2 supporting the other scriptures I quoted which all testify that Christians have ceased from sin. As our old man is dead/crucified with Christ, then we clearly cannot live in sin any longer.
As Rom 6:7 says "he that is dead is freed from sin".
How can Satan, the accuser (Rev 12:9,10), charge any Christians with sin? He cannot do this anymore, as believers are in Christ and in him there is no sin (1John 3:5).
Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Thus believers have "ceased from sin", (1Pet 4:1), "cannot sin" (1John 3:9).
A believers life is hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3.
God see's Christ in us. This means a believers position in Christ is righteous, holy, perfect and sinless.
To charge a Christian with sin is like charging Jesus with sin (and remember this is not determined by our physical lifestyle. We're saved by grace).
This scripture refers to believing on Jesus (it's not referring to obeying the law).
Note here that Paul is talking about running a race for a crown.
What is that race about?
1Tim 6:12-14
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession (Rom 10:9, confess Jesus with your mouth) in the presence of many witnesses. I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate, that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing,
And Paul did succeed in that race.
2Tim 4:7,8
I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness,
So 1Cor 9:24-27 is referring to keeping your body under subjection so as not to be lured back into unbelief through the lust of the flesh with is to seek to establish self-righteousness by works of the law.
Remember it's the sin of unbelief in Jesus that the world is convicted of, John 16:9. The good fight that Christians fight is to continue to believe on Jesus and not turn back to the law to determine righteousness/sin.
Jesus dealt with our sin once and for all on the cross. After that there is no more subsequent sin, as the many scriptures I've quoted in the posts above confirm. Jesus' sacrifice was not like the yearly sacrifices of bulls/goats that could never take away sin. Jesus' sacrifice finally dealt with our sin, totally washing us clean.
You seem to be suggesting that after Christians were cleansed when we received Christ, we then became dirty with sin again immmediately after we were saved. And you base this on whether we obey the law perfectly or not.
Can you see the error of the doctrine you follow. The doctrine you follow calls unclean what God has cleansed.
You are judging someones righteousness and salvation on how well they obey the law. That is error.
Scripture confirms that in Christ we can sin no more. We should not reject what we have in Christ.
If we read 1John 1 from the beginning of the chapter you will see it's evangelical context. It's preaching the gospel to those in darkness (without Christ). Note how it declares eternal life to others so that they also may have fellowship with the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ.
Note also how the suggestion that 1John 1:8 refers to Christians, would contradict 1John 3:9 which says that Christians cannot sin.
Clearly 1John 1:8 does not refer to Christians.
This is the gospel message.
Repent of your dead works and turn to God instead.
Note Heb 6:1
Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God.
When we receive Christ we repented of dead works of self-righteousness. These dead works were sin.
Now our faith is counted for righteousness, instead.
We do not serve sin when we believe on Jesus resulting in our faith being counted for righteousness. In doing this we have submitted to God's righteousness.
To serve sin is to remain under the law to determine righteousness. This makes you a sinner. It's rebellion against God as such do not submit to God's righteousness.
It's interesting that you mention "not sinning as a lifestyle"
I've asked many who make such suggestions to show from scripture details as to what determines whether someone is sinning as a lifestyle. Nobody has been able to show anything from scripture to support such a doctrine.
But I will ask you anyway, can you explain from scripture what level of disobedience to the law determines whether someone is lost through sinning as a lifestyle? What level of disobedience to the law is considered to be habitual sin?
Here again I'll ask the same question as before. What level of disobedience to the law determines that someone will not go to the kingdom. Can you show scripture giving details on this.
This is an important question as you have indicated that our salvation is determined by how good a lifestyle we live. Therefore it's important we know what level of good lifestyle we are to live in order to be saved.
I guess another question to consider is does how long one live as a Christian also have an impact on this judgement? For example are we permitted a limited number of sins per year throughout our life? Or is our limit of forgiveness from God only 7x70 regardless of whether we live for 1 week as a Christian or a lifetime?
I hope you can now see the problem such doctrines create. Such doctrines are ambiguous at best, leaving one in doubt of their salvation based on whether they slipped up once too often over a given period of time.
Instead we see God's example of grace with the thief on the cross. That thief on the cross believed on Jesus, and his faith was counted for righteousness. That thief had no works of the law to accompany his entry into paradise. That exact same grace is available to all Christians. Hence we should not add works of the law to the gospel of grace. To mix grace with works of the law is to be lukewarm, and God will spew you out of His mouth, Rev 3:15,16.
Rom 11;6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
Again, what you are saying here is mixing grace with works of the law. Consider my points above about how we are saved by grace.
As your points earlier in your post reveal, you see that mixing grace with works of the law is how we establish the law. This is error as such a doctrine is not supported in scripture. To justify your doctrine here you would have to show from scripture what level of obedience to the law is required to establish the law.
You have already indicated that you still sin. But how would you know if you have lived a good enough lifestyle in order to establish the law? Scripture would have to give details as to what level of obedience is satisfactory to establish the law.
Our works are to believe on Jesus, John 6:29.
Anyone who is mixing works of the law with grace is showing by their works that they're in unbelief.
I see Rom 6:1,2 supporting the other scriptures I quoted which all testify that Christians have ceased from sin. As our old man is dead/crucified with Christ, then we clearly cannot live in sin any longer.
As Rom 6:7 says "he that is dead is freed from sin".
How can Satan, the accuser (Rev 12:9,10), charge any Christians with sin? He cannot do this anymore, as believers are in Christ and in him there is no sin (1John 3:5).
Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Thus believers have "ceased from sin", (1Pet 4:1), "cannot sin" (1John 3:9).
A believers life is hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3.
God see's Christ in us. This means a believers position in Christ is righteous, holy, perfect and sinless.
To charge a Christian with sin is like charging Jesus with sin (and remember this is not determined by our physical lifestyle. We're saved by grace).
This scripture refers to believing on Jesus (it's not referring to obeying the law).
Note here that Paul is talking about running a race for a crown.
What is that race about?
1Tim 6:12-14
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession (Rom 10:9, confess Jesus with your mouth) in the presence of many witnesses. I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate, that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing,
And Paul did succeed in that race.
2Tim 4:7,8
I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness,
So 1Cor 9:24-27 is referring to keeping your body under subjection so as not to be lured back into unbelief through the lust of the flesh with is to seek to establish self-righteousness by works of the law.
Remember it's the sin of unbelief in Jesus that the world is convicted of, John 16:9. The good fight that Christians fight is to continue to believe on Jesus and not turn back to the law to determine righteousness/sin.
Jesus dealt with our sin once and for all on the cross. After that there is no more subsequent sin, as the many scriptures I've quoted in the posts above confirm. Jesus' sacrifice was not like the yearly sacrifices of bulls/goats that could never take away sin. Jesus' sacrifice finally dealt with our sin, totally washing us clean.
You seem to be suggesting that after Christians were cleansed when we received Christ, we then became dirty with sin again immmediately after we were saved. And you base this on whether we obey the law perfectly or not.
Can you see the error of the doctrine you follow. The doctrine you follow calls unclean what God has cleansed.
You are judging someones righteousness and salvation on how well they obey the law. That is error.
Scripture confirms that in Christ we can sin no more. We should not reject what we have in Christ.
If we read 1John 1 from the beginning of the chapter you will see it's evangelical context. It's preaching the gospel to those in darkness (without Christ). Note how it declares eternal life to others so that they also may have fellowship with the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ.
Note also how the suggestion that 1John 1:8 refers to Christians, would contradict 1John 3:9 which says that Christians cannot sin.
Clearly 1John 1:8 does not refer to Christians.
This is the gospel message.
Repent of your dead works and turn to God instead.
Note Heb 6:1
Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God.
When we receive Christ we repented of dead works of self-righteousness. These dead works were sin.
Now our faith is counted for righteousness, instead.
We do not serve sin when we believe on Jesus resulting in our faith being counted for righteousness. In doing this we have submitted to God's righteousness.
To serve sin is to remain under the law to determine righteousness. This makes you a sinner. It's rebellion against God as such do not submit to God's righteousness.
It's interesting that you mention "not sinning as a lifestyle"
I've asked many who make such suggestions to show from scripture details as to what determines whether someone is sinning as a lifestyle. Nobody has been able to show anything from scripture to support such a doctrine.
But I will ask you anyway, can you explain from scripture what level of disobedience to the law determines whether someone is lost through sinning as a lifestyle? What level of disobedience to the law is considered to be habitual sin?
Here again I'll ask the same question as before. What level of disobedience to the law determines that someone will not go to the kingdom. Can you show scripture giving details on this.
This is an important question as you have indicated that our salvation is determined by how good a lifestyle we live. Therefore it's important we know what level of good lifestyle we are to live in order to be saved.
I guess another question to consider is does how long one live as a Christian also have an impact on this judgement? For example are we permitted a limited number of sins per year throughout our life? Or is our limit of forgiveness from God only 7x70 regardless of whether we live for 1 week as a Christian or a lifetime?
I hope you can now see the problem such doctrines create. Such doctrines are ambiguous at best, leaving one in doubt of their salvation based on whether they slipped up once too often over a given period of time.
Instead we see God's example of grace with the thief on the cross. That thief on the cross believed on Jesus, and his faith was counted for righteousness. That thief had no works of the law to accompany his entry into paradise. That exact same grace is available to all Christians. Hence we should not add works of the law to the gospel of grace. To mix grace with works of the law is to be lukewarm, and God will spew you out of His mouth, Rev 3:15,16.
Rom 11;6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
Again, what you are saying here is mixing grace with works of the law. Consider my points above about how we are saved by grace.
As your points earlier in your post reveal, you see that mixing grace with works of the law is how we establish the law. This is error as such a doctrine is not supported in scripture. To justify your doctrine here you would have to show from scripture what level of obedience to the law is required to establish the law.
You have already indicated that you still sin. But how would you know if you have lived a good enough lifestyle in order to establish the law? Scripture would have to give details as to what level of obedience is satisfactory to establish the law.
Our works are to believe on Jesus, John 6:29.
Anyone who is mixing works of the law with grace is showing by their works that they're in unbelief.