HELL

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C

chesser

Guest
I rest my case with you. Someone else will hopefully take this up with you.
3 hours later:
What makes you so sure that the website you referred to is the absolute truth? Why do you have so much blind faith in it? what a biased attitude to start with! -- I told you. Listen: I have done the same study on Sheol, Hades, Hell, etc.. and came up with the same. I see that Hades is used in the NT. I see that Sheol is used in the OT. I see where Jesus went to Abraham's Bosom. I see where He who ascended also descended. The bias started when it was said that the wicked dead received salvation. But, yet, we the living, must make that choice now.


If you studied 1 Pet 3:18-19 you would realize that Jesus preached in hell to disobedient spirits and disobedient spirits must be wicked people -- Did He preach (evangelize) the Gospel or did He go and make a proclamation (heralded) to the disobedient? Knowing that the righteous were in Paradise, could He have not proclaim the message He had while in Paradise? Suppose the wicked received the Gospel along with the righteous dead, what then was the purpose of the Law? Why even fulfill it when one knew that they were going to receive a Messiah one way or another? This then leads one to ask, why then believe in Christ now as a Christian, when the wicked dead are given the Gospel as their deliverance from condemnation? Was the Gospel also preached to the wicked dead from Sodom and Gomorrah, seeing that they were there when Jesus was to have preached the Gospel to those wicked from Noah's time? Would it not be a fool who would have denied a Messiah from their averse sentencing? If the Gospel was preached to the wicked dead, I can rest assured that not one would have said they would want to stay behind in outer darkness voided of any goodness if they were offered deliverance. Would one turn down a pardon from prison?


If you studied in Greek the parable about rich man and Lazarus you would realize that Abraham Bosom and Hades are two separate entities -- yes and they were separated by a gulf. Did He release the righteous dead from the Law or the wicked dead who walked as Cain in the land of Nun? You see: salvation is a possession of the righteous, not the wicked.

But because you don’t study any of it you prefer to utter religious statements -- and are you here behind me while I study? How do you know what I have or have not done? Is this deflection?

That’s a typical example of baseless brainwashed religious statement from you -- says who? I have told all that Sheol is Hebrew and Hades is Greek and they both mean: the abode of the dead. I am not the one trying to deliver salvation to the wicked and give hope of future deliverance to the living wicked. Second death means exactly what it says: EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD. If it is everlasting, then there shall be no end to it. If it is a destruction, then that ability to be presented before the Lord has been destroyed (ruined).

How then is it possible for the wicked dead to receive salvation, if it is not even in reach for the living wicked:

Psa 119:155 Salvation is far from the wicked: for they seek not thy statutes.
 

tek

Banned
Sep 25, 2012
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Let’s not write long posts.
Let’s go through parable about Lazarus and rich man

Can you see that rich man is in Hades?

Can you see that Hades is not Abraham’s bosom?

Can you see that Abraham’s bosom is not Hades?

So how can Abraham's Bosom be in Hades?
 

tek

Banned
Sep 25, 2012
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Originally Posted by WolfInOxHide

Heheh.
But as a serious answer, I would say no, because the grave and the concept of death are both cast into the lake of fire before anything else except the beast and false prophet.
that's really good point and the next verse that follows is


Rev20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

And this could be predominately about angels being thrown into the lake of fire as they attend the judgement day also

Jude 1:6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home--these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day
 
Jul 12, 2012
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And this could be predominately about angels being thrown into the lake of fire as they attend the judgement day also
I wonder. The book of Enoch (which I hold as divinely inspired, but do not read as if it is about aliens an such)
It mentions punishments for the angels, but as far as I remember only specifically mentions one of them being cast into a fiery furnace. Not as if to contradict what you suggest, but just for mentioning.
That particular fallen angel mentioned is "Azazel" which means "separated" which I take to mean that he was being called "opposite of Holy", or "already cast out".
I glean from this that it is one of several fallen angel names used in the book to refer to satan, different names being used in different contexts, to match the particular aspect of satan that we should be considering when we read that particular part of the text, in this case for example, the scene when he is cast into the furnace, for the reader to take note that it is his unique state of fallen-ness that is the reason for his role in the scene.
 

tek

Banned
Sep 25, 2012
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Wolf: The book of Enoch (which I hold as divinely inspired, but do not read as if it is about aliens an such
It’s interesting that you mentioned apocryphal books. Orthodox Old Testament for example includes about 11 books that Protestant Old Testament does not include. Some of those apocryphal books give some insight into Hell
 

tek

Banned
Sep 25, 2012
283
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Let’s talk about FIRE.

Hebrew 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

Is God Fire? Not really


Also according to the verse below every Christian will be tested by Fire

Cor 3:11-15 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss : but he himself shall be saved ; yet so as by fire.

Will every Christian be in fire? I don’t think so

So Lake of Fire must be a metaphor too
 
C

chesser

Guest
then do you take it uip?
No, I'm an annihilationist, so I'm not really going to get involved for fear of being sucked in and adding a 3rd thing(btw, if u try and debate with me, I won't reply)
 
Jul 12, 2012
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Let’s talk about FIRE.
Fire means: a witness to one's wrongs

Let us be immersed in it now while we still have control over it.
 

tek

Banned
Sep 25, 2012
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Is Fire in the Lake of Fire a real Fire? God is Fire. How is Divine Fire different from the Fire in the Lake of Fire?
 

tek

Banned
Sep 25, 2012
283
2
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Is Fire in the "Lake of Fire" a real Fire?

God is Fire.

How is Divine Fire different from the Fire in the Lake of Fire?
Who can answer that one
 
Jul 12, 2012
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Only two types of fire. Neither waivers in it's traits and "definition" from cover to cover.

Spiritual fire affects your spirit the same way physical fire affects the physical.

"Dividing" the "word".
The "word" being the act of manifesting something inward as an outward example.
All of creation is His word, a representation of Him, culminating in Jesus.
Our mis-assignment of meaning is graven imagery.
For example, saying that "fire" is "the Holy Spirit" based on the 7 flames before the throne passage, then
reading fire elsewhere as meaning simply "the Holy Spirit"...
When really it's just telling us that the Holy Spirit is a witness to our wrongs, among it's other traits.

Or for that matter, using that passage to somehow claim that He has 7 literal Spirits instead of seeing it as a complete validator (7) of the real Holy Spirit.

Peace.
 
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