Holiness Is Not Legalism

[Officermayo]

Excellent sermon by Wesley, thanks for posting!

God has also been quickening the importance of holiness lately.

"For I am the LORD who brought you up from the land of Egypt to be your God; thus you shall be holy, for I am holy.'" Lev. 11:45



"As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance,15 but as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,16 since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.” 1 Peter 1:14-16

Notice how Peter repeats these commands and tells us to grow up and not be conformed to "our former ignorance!"

Peter is addressing the "elect exiles" (v1) and this book and chapter particularly point out the importance of obedience, as a response to God and God's holiness.

"according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood:" 1 Peter 1:2

"Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere brotherly love, love one another earnestly from a pure heart, 23 since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;" 1 Peter 1:22-24

I'm not sure if this should be classified as "legalism" though, since Peter was not only an apostle, but a church leader and this book has always been considered inspired.

Probably we do need a definition for legalism - like following man made laws or writings, instead of the Word!

PS Not judging or condemning anyone! Just delighted always to discuss the Word of God, and his plans for our lives, as we walk with him by obeying him!

To me, legalism is when people in authority (pastor, deacon, pope, whatever) lay down rules that have no scriptural basis and rebuke anyone who fails to follow them. This is what Jesus fought with the Pharisees about time and time again. Basically I'm talking about "the traditions of men" vs the word of God.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[garee]

So we need to "balance" grace with legalism to keep grace from being cheap??

In one way I think might be.

Some Christians say salt preserves which it does. But as the milk of the word teaches us God is gracious. The meat which works in us to enable us to do the work as described in Philippians..... working in us to both will and do his good pleasure.

Salt is used to represent His judgement like with Lots wife turned into a pillar of salt.It is used in all the ceremonial sacrifices to represent the suffering of Christ beforehand as the Father laid on Him the inquity of us all .

So in that way not that we judge one another but remind them of God judgement when communing with each other or bringing the gospel. Some will error to the side of His written law ,that kills ,while others might over extend His mercy by which we receive His grace. But mercy in the end triumphs over judgement. In the end all things work to the good coming from God as those who do love Him.

I would think He does the balancing we do the foot work.

Walk in wisdom toward them that are without, redeeming the time.Let your speech be alway with grace, "seasoned with salt", that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.Col 4:5

 

[Gr8grace]

The balance is you cant live like hell and make it to heaven.

If this were true it would rule out the majority of believers from heaven.

The " Overtly sinning like hell" is a smoke screen. The majority of believers get saved, and get pushed right into religion and never come out of it. A sneaky snake gets a hold of them, convinces them to live a proud , self-righteous life and they never look back. In Gods eyes it is a lifestyle that is WORSE than overtly sinning and is living like hell.

Most believers that get saved and continue in sin get knocked to their knees at some point and go on to live great Godly lives.

Most believers that get saved and get caught up in religion and being moral, don't come out of it.

Thank God it is by Grace, the moment we believe. Acts 16:31

 

[kaylagrl]

Okay. How so just how much legalism is enough to balance grace with, so that we don't end up with this living like hell you see grace producing?

Ok Im done with answering your questions. You are misquoting what Im saying because you have a position you're about to hit me with. Others know what Im talking about.


The term “cheap grace” can be traced back to a book written by German theologian, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, called The Cost of Discipleship, published in 1937. In that book, Bonhoeffer defined “cheap grace” as “the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline. Communion without confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ.” Notice what is emphasized in Bonhoeffer’s definition of cheap grace and what is de-emphasized. The emphasis is on the benefits of Christianity without the costs involved; hence, the adjective cheap to describe it.

Which leads to Carnal Christianity....

The idea of carnal Christianity essentially teaches that as long as one makes a profession of faith in Christ, he or she is saved (Romans 10:9), even if there is no immediate obedience to the commands of Jesus and the apostles to live a life of holiness. It is the idea that we can have Jesus as Savior, but not necessarily as Lord. People who advocate for carnal Christianity, or “free grace” as it’s often called, do not deny the necessity of good works (i.e., holy living) for sanctification, but they distinguish the call for salvation from the call to sanctification (or discipleship).

There are many Scripture passages that free grace advocates use to support their position. It is not necessary to cite them all, but two of the most popular and forceful passages are John 3:16 and Romans 10:9.

Clearly, these passages, and others, teach that the one who believes in Jesus Christ “has eternal life” and “will be saved.” There is no disputing this. However, what people like John MacArthur and others were objecting to is not that salvation and eternal life are free gifts of God’s grace, but rather the teaching that the call to salvation does not also include a call to repentance and holy living. In other words, they were objecting that the doctrine of free grace was becoming a doctrine of cheap grace. What the proponents of Lordship Salvation assert is that salvation is a call to discipleship, that one cannot have Jesus as Savior without also acknowledging Him as Lord....Now in saying that, it is not meant to downplay or denigrate the saving work of Jesus Christ on the cross. What a glorious and gracious provision God has made for His people in providing Jesus Christ as our atoning sacrifice who thereby guarantees salvation and eternal life for those who believe in Him. Jesus Christ is most certainly our Savior, but this cannot be separated from the fact that Jesus Christ is Lord, and as Lord, He commands and we obey.

Jesus, in His Great Commission to the 11 remaining disciples, commanded them to go into all the world and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them and teaching them to observe all that He had commanded them (Matthew 28:19-20). Evangelism and discipleship go hand in hand. A disciple is one who observes (keeps, obeys) all that Jesus has commanded. There is no two-stage process in Christianity—first, be saved; then become a disciple. This arbitrary distinction is foreign to the New Testament and therefore foreign to Christianity.

Two conditions are given by Jesus in order to be His disciple. The first is to be willing to renounce family in order to follow Jesus. The second is to be willing to die, both literally and metaphorically (“die to self”) in order to follow Jesus. Jesus then gives two examples of “counting the cost.” The first is an example of a man who desires to build a tower without first counting the cost of building the tower. After realizing he cannot complete it, he gives up in shame and embarrassment. The second is that of a king preparing to go to battle and making sure he can defend against the superior foe. The point Jesus is making is that discipleship has a cost.

Furthermore, discipleship requires repentance and obedience. At the beginning of Jesus’ ministry, the message He preached was a message of repentance (Matthew 4:17). The message of the apostles after Jesus’ resurrection and ascension was also one of repentance (Acts 2:38). Along with repentance comes obedience. Jesus told a crowd of listeners that salvation and obedience go hand in hand: “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?” (Luke 6:46). Jesus then goes on to differentiate the one who builds his house on the sand from the one who builds his house on the rock, that is, the man who not only hears the words of Jesus, but does them, too.

Cheap grace seeks to hide the cost of discipleship from people. It seeks to claim that as long as we make a profession of faith, we are saved. God’s grace covers all our sins. Again, that is a wonderful truth! The apostle Paul says as much when he writes, “Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Romans 5:20-21). Yet, right after writing that, Paul follows it with this: “What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?” (Romans 6:1-2). Salvation by grace alone through faith alone is so much more than simply mouthing the words “Jesus is Lord.” We are not saved by a profession of faith. We are not saved by praying the Sinner’s Prayer. We are not saved by signing a card or walking an aisle. We are saved by a living and active faith (James 2:14-26), a faith that manifests itself in repentance, obedience and love of God and our neighbor. Salvation is not a transaction; it’s a transformation. Paul says it best when he says we are “new creations” in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17).

What is cheap grace?

 

[FreeNChrist]

Ok Im done with answering your questions. You are misquoting what Im saying because you have a position you're about to hit me with. Others know what Im talking about.


The term “cheap grace” can be traced back to a book written by German theologian, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, called The Cost of Discipleship, published in 1937. In that book, Bonhoeffer defined “cheap grace” as “the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline. Communion without confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ.” Notice what is emphasized in Bonhoeffer’s definition of cheap grace and what is de-emphasized. The emphasis is on the benefits of Christianity without the costs involved; hence, the adjective cheap to describe it.

Which leads to Carnal Christianity....

The idea of carnal Christianity essentially teaches that as long as one makes a profession of faith in Christ, he or she is saved (Romans 10:9), even if there is no immediate obedience to the commands of Jesus and the apostles to live a life of holiness. It is the idea that we can have Jesus as Savior, but not necessarily as Lord. People who advocate for carnal Christianity, or “free grace” as it’s often called, do not deny the necessity of good works (i.e., holy living) for sanctification, but they distinguish the call for salvation from the call to sanctification (or discipleship).

There are many Scripture passages that free grace advocates use to support their position. It is not necessary to cite them all, but two of the most popular and forceful passages are John 3:16 and Romans 10:9.

Clearly, these passages, and others, teach that the one who believes in Jesus Christ “has eternal life” and “will be saved.” There is no disputing this. However, what people like John MacArthur and others were objecting to is not that salvation and eternal life are free gifts of God’s grace, but rather the teaching that the call to salvation does not also include a call to repentance and holy living. In other words, they were objecting that the doctrine of free grace was becoming a doctrine of cheap grace. What the proponents of Lordship Salvation assert is that salvation is a call to discipleship, that one cannot have Jesus as Savior without also acknowledging Him as Lord....Now in saying that, it is not meant to downplay or denigrate the saving work of Jesus Christ on the cross. What a glorious and gracious provision God has made for His people in providing Jesus Christ as our atoning sacrifice who thereby guarantees salvation and eternal life for those who believe in Him. Jesus Christ is most certainly our Savior, but this cannot be separated from the fact that Jesus Christ is Lord, and as Lord, He commands and we obey.

Jesus, in His Great Commission to the 11 remaining disciples, commanded them to go into all the world and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them and teaching them to observe all that He had commanded them (Matthew 28:19-20). Evangelism and discipleship go hand in hand. A disciple is one who observes (keeps, obeys) all that Jesus has commanded. There is no two-stage process in Christianity—first, be saved; then become a disciple. This arbitrary distinction is foreign to the New Testament and therefore foreign to Christianity.

Two conditions are given by Jesus in order to be His disciple. The first is to be willing to renounce family in order to follow Jesus. The second is to be willing to die, both literally and metaphorically (“die to self”) in order to follow Jesus. Jesus then gives two examples of “counting the cost.” The first is an example of a man who desires to build a tower without first counting the cost of building the tower. After realizing he cannot complete it, he gives up in shame and embarrassment. The second is that of a king preparing to go to battle and making sure he can defend against the superior foe. The point Jesus is making is that discipleship has a cost.

Furthermore, discipleship requires repentance and obedience. At the beginning of Jesus’ ministry, the message He preached was a message of repentance (Matthew 4:17). The message of the apostles after Jesus’ resurrection and ascension was also one of repentance (Acts 2:38). Along with repentance comes obedience. Jesus told a crowd of listeners that salvation and obedience go hand in hand: “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?” (Luke 6:46). Jesus then goes on to differentiate the one who builds his house on the sand from the one who builds his house on the rock, that is, the man who not only hears the words of Jesus, but does them, too.

Cheap grace seeks to hide the cost of discipleship from people. It seeks to claim that as long as we make a profession of faith, we are saved. God’s grace covers all our sins. Again, that is a wonderful truth! The apostle Paul says as much when he writes, “Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Romans 5:20-21). Yet, right after writing that, Paul follows it with this: “What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?” (Romans 6:1-2). Salvation by grace alone through faith alone is so much more than simply mouthing the words “Jesus is Lord.” We are not saved by a profession of faith. We are not saved by praying the Sinner’s Prayer. We are not saved by signing a card or walking an aisle. We are saved by a living and active faith (James 2:14-26), a faith that manifests itself in repentance, obedience and love of God and our neighbor. Salvation is not a transaction; it’s a transformation. Paul says it best when he says we are “new creations” in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17).

What is cheap grace?

Where's the legalism there?

 

[kaylagrl]

Where's the legalism there?

Pretty sure we all know what legalism is. Cheap grace is what needed to be explained. Are we still in for a fight,or do you understand where Im coming from?

 

[Gr8grace]

Ok Im done with answering your questions. You are misquoting what Im saying because you have a position you're about to hit me with. Others know what Im talking about.


The term “cheap grace” can be traced back to a book written by German theologian, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, called The Cost of Discipleship, published in 1937. In that book, Bonhoeffer defined “cheap grace” as “the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline. Communion without confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ.” Notice what is emphasized in Bonhoeffer’s definition of cheap grace and what is de-emphasized. The emphasis is on the benefits of Christianity without the costs involved; hence, the adjective cheap to describe it.

Which leads to Carnal Christianity....

The idea of carnal Christianity essentially teaches that as long as one makes a profession of faith in Christ, he or she is saved (Romans 10:9), even if there is no immediate obedience to the commands of Jesus and the apostles to live a life of holiness. It is the idea that we can have Jesus as Savior, but not necessarily as Lord. People who advocate for carnal Christianity, or “free grace” as it’s often called, do not deny the necessity of good works (i.e., holy living) for sanctification, but they distinguish the call for salvation from the call to sanctification (or discipleship).

There are many Scripture passages that free grace advocates use to support their position. It is not necessary to cite them all, but two of the most popular and forceful passages are John 3:16 and Romans 10:9.

Clearly, these passages, and others, teach that the one who believes in Jesus Christ “has eternal life” and “will be saved.” There is no disputing this. However, what people like John MacArthur and others were objecting to is not that salvation and eternal life are free gifts of God’s grace, but rather the teaching that the call to salvation does not also include a call to repentance and holy living. In other words, they were objecting that the doctrine of free grace was becoming a doctrine of cheap grace. What the proponents of Lordship Salvation assert is that salvation is a call to discipleship, that one cannot have Jesus as Savior without also acknowledging Him as Lord....Now in saying that, it is not meant to downplay or denigrate the saving work of Jesus Christ on the cross. What a glorious and gracious provision God has made for His people in providing Jesus Christ as our atoning sacrifice who thereby guarantees salvation and eternal life for those who believe in Him. Jesus Christ is most certainly our Savior, but this cannot be separated from the fact that Jesus Christ is Lord, and as Lord, He commands and we obey.

Jesus, in His Great Commission to the 11 remaining disciples, commanded them to go into all the world and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them and teaching them to observe all that He had commanded them (Matthew 28:19-20). Evangelism and discipleship go hand in hand. A disciple is one who observes (keeps, obeys) all that Jesus has commanded. There is no two-stage process in Christianity—first, be saved; then become a disciple. This arbitrary distinction is foreign to the New Testament and therefore foreign to Christianity.

Two conditions are given by Jesus in order to be His disciple. The first is to be willing to renounce family in order to follow Jesus. The second is to be willing to die, both literally and metaphorically (“die to self”) in order to follow Jesus. Jesus then gives two examples of “counting the cost.” The first is an example of a man who desires to build a tower without first counting the cost of building the tower. After realizing he cannot complete it, he gives up in shame and embarrassment. The second is that of a king preparing to go to battle and making sure he can defend against the superior foe. The point Jesus is making is that discipleship has a cost.

Furthermore, discipleship requires repentance and obedience. At the beginning of Jesus’ ministry, the message He preached was a message of repentance (Matthew 4:17). The message of the apostles after Jesus’ resurrection and ascension was also one of repentance (Acts 2:38). Along with repentance comes obedience. Jesus told a crowd of listeners that salvation and obedience go hand in hand: “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?” (Luke 6:46). Jesus then goes on to differentiate the one who builds his house on the sand from the one who builds his house on the rock, that is, the man who not only hears the words of Jesus, but does them, too.

Cheap grace seeks to hide the cost of discipleship from people. It seeks to claim that as long as we make a profession of faith, we are saved. God’s grace covers all our sins. Again, that is a wonderful truth! The apostle Paul says as much when he writes, “Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Romans 5:20-21). Yet, right after writing that, Paul follows it with this: “What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?” (Romans 6:1-2). Salvation by grace alone through faith alone is so much more than simply mouthing the words “Jesus is Lord.” We are not saved by a profession of faith. We are not saved by praying the Sinner’s Prayer. We are not saved by signing a card or walking an aisle. We are saved by a living and active faith (James 2:14-26), a faith that manifests itself in repentance, obedience and love of God and our neighbor. Salvation is not a transaction; it’s a transformation. Paul says it best when he says we are “new creations” in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17).

What is cheap grace?

This is hogwash. lordship salvation is its name.

It cost Him everything for our salvation. And it cost us NOTHING. He simple asks us to believe.

Our discipleship is counting the cost. That is why we don't see many disciples around......they are stuck at salvation and counting the cost(to themselves) of their salvation. And they never really get beyond salvation. A life of wondering or maintain something that God signed, sealed, approved and delivered the moment we placed our trust in HIS work.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Pretty sure we all know what legalism is.

Apparently not.

 

[kaylagrl]

This is hogwash. lordship salvation is its name.

It cost Him everything for our salvation. And it cost us NOTHING. He simple asks us to believe.

Our discipleship is counting the cost. That is why we don't see many disciples around......they are stuck at salvation and counting the cost(to themselves) of their salvation. And they never really get beyond salvation. A life of wondering or maintain something that God signed, sealed, approved and delivered the moment we placed our trust in HIS work.

Please reread what it said,I think you missed a few points.

 

[kaylagrl]

Apparently not.

And thats the point. Any call to obey or follow is legalism.

 

[FreeNChrist]

And thats the point. Any call to obey or follow is legalism.

Yes, that seems to be what you are saying.

 

[kaylagrl]

Yes, that seems to be what you are saying.

Quote "cheap grace” as“the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline. Communion without confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ.” Notice what is emphasized in Bonhoeffer’s definition of cheap grace and what is de-emphasized. The emphasis is on the benefits of Christianity without the costs involved; hence, the adjective cheap to describe it."

Don't see anything there to disagree with.... Are you Christian in name only or is He Lord? That was the point. Follow,obey.

 

[JaumeJ]

In the Epistle to the Ephesians we are taught we have changed from being children of disobedience to be ing children of obedience. Is this Epistle and the teachings therin to be ignored? Is it calling to be legalistic? I cannot fathom anyone understanding this as anything other than what it says. We are become children of obedience. This is our new nature, and to say what our Father desires and has delineated for us is unwise, evil or wrong I think is out of the Holy Spirit and somewhere in the darkness. We are in grace no mater what, but to disobey deliverately is wrong, and to teach it is not is being legalistic as far as I know, for this is the argument of a self-appointed interpreter of the law. Jesus Christ has taught us how the law should be approached, and I see here in this thread and in most others where this is not acceptable to the licentiously grace only folsk are .

 

[FreeNChrist]

Quote "cheap grace” as“the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline. Communion without confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ.” Notice what is emphasized in Bonhoeffer’s definition of cheap grace and what is de-emphasized. The emphasis is on the benefits of Christianity without the costs involved; hence, the adjective cheap to describe it."

Don't see anything there to disagree with.... Are you Christian in name only or is He Lord? That was the point. Follow,obey.

None of which is the "legalism" that you assert grace needs to be "balanced" with.

 

[Gr8grace]

Please reread what it said,I think you missed a few points.

Ok. re-read~~

This is hogwash. lordship salvation is its name.

It cost Him everything for our salvation. And it cost us NOTHING. He simple asks us to believe.

Our discipleship is counting the cost. That is why we don't see many disciples around......they are stuck at salvation and counting the cost(to themselves) of their salvation. And they never really get beyond salvation. A life of wondering or maintain something that God signed, sealed, approved and delivered the moment we placed our trust in HIS work.

 

[kaylagrl]

Ok. re-read~~

This is hogwash. lordship salvation is its name.

It cost Him everything for our salvation. And it cost us NOTHING. He simple asks us to believe.

Our discipleship is counting the cost. That is why we don't see many disciples around......they are stuck at salvation and counting the cost(to themselves) of their salvation. And they never really get beyond salvation. A life of wondering or maintain something that God signed, sealed, approved and delivered the moment we placed our trust in HIS work.

You are missing the point. We are told to count the cost. Jesus said if we love Him we will keep His commandments,we will do what He says. One goes hand in hand with the other. We do it out of love,not out of legalism a list of do and dont. We walk in the Spirit and we dont live like the world. You have your mind made up,and thats fine, you wont acknowledge anything in the post,thats up to you. But its balanced with the Word of God. I dont see what there is to disagree with.

 

[FreeNChrist]

You are missing the point. We are told to count the cost. Jesus said if we love Him we will keep His commandments,we will do what He says. One goes hand in hand with the other. We do it out of love,not out of legalism a list of do and dont. We walk in the Spirit and we dont live like the world. You have your mind made up,and thats fine, you wont acknowledge anything in the post,thats up to you. But its balanced with the Word of God. I dont see what there is to disagree with.

I'm pretty sure "the point" just got changed.

 

[JaumeJ]

When we arfe saved our sin is forgiven, and as we continue in this age we are forgiven our faults for God sees His Son in us and the guilt of our sin is not imputed against us. This is said best by David in Psalm 32, and he was guilty of blood guilt, adultery and more.... He sinnedd either out of weakness or by the will of God for his blood guilt was in part counted by the battles he wond with God's nod.

Anyone who has been saved by the Blood of the Lamb of God cannot be disobedient with malice, nor would he ever just sit on his hands until the angels come for him. No, all who are truly grateful will do as Jesus teaches, and they will work, not for salvation but expressing gratitude and approval of all God wills. This is called good works. Good works do gather treasure for us in heaven, but they have nothing to do with saving us; Jesus is the only Way. God shows mercy, justice and love always towards us, and we should show mercy, justice and faith to all in our interactions remaining in this age.

If you are so stone frozen in grace-only as to bedeliberately disobedient and fruitless, you will be known by all fy what you do not produce.

 

[kaylagrl]

I'm pretty sure "the point" just got changed.

No,the point is the same if you read the post. It did not change.
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[PennEd]

Just by using the word "cheap" that implies there is a cost the recipient must bear. That's why I really don't like the in vogue use the term "cheap Grace". It's an oxymoron. In terms of what WE do to obtain Grace, neither cheap not expensive even makes sense to describe Grace.