How Do We Reconcile Sinning Weekly With Excommunication?

[BenFTW]

Many Christians will admit they sin all the time, daily or weekly. This is peculiar when we consider verses that speak of correcting fellow believers of their sin and even going to the extreme of excommunicating them from the fellowship. So, if we all are sinning all of the time, on a weekly basis, shouldn't we be getting excommunicated? haha

I just find it something to be pondered when we look at scripture and how believers are dealt with who sin, and then we state of ourselves that we sin often. How do we reconcile the two? Our sin and the confronting of sin, either in encouragement or in excommunication?

I suppose this might be a dig at the concept that we sin daily, weekly, or monthly, but it does make an interesting point. Should we all be excommunicated? Handed over to satan? Why does scripture seem to speak of us being set free from sin's dominion and yet we claim daily sin, and if that be the case, doesn't scripture speak of addressing such sin in a number of ways?

 

[zone]

interesting approach

 

[truthhurts]

This is because of the push of Sin Consciousness doctrine and not Righteousness conscious truth....We also do not teach that SIN is a CHOICE and not an ACTION....You tell a group of sin-conscious believers they are not a poor old sinner saved by grace and tell them they are now a saint and they will stone you....I usually show them that Paul never addressed the sinner he always addressed the saints...I also show them that the Psalms always contrast the wicked from the blessed....

More to your ? its a very good one and glad you asked.....I never saw this before and will think about it...but it is a very valid truth.

 

[Grace777x70]

There seems to be some behavior that Paul steps in and hands these people over to satan. How that looks like - I don't know. No more fellowship with them until there is a change in order to keep the other members from being defiled by their foul behavior?

It takes a spiritual person who has true spiritual authority to so such a thing and Paul only mentions it 2x times.

I am a firm believer in church discipline but only if it is done by "spiritually mature Christians".

I don't mean someone that has necessary been a pastor for 30 years because they could still be a baby Christian. Time being a Christian does not equate to being spiritually mature - nor does being a pastor for 30 years, nor does knowing the Greek and Hebrew, nor does it because you have memorized 1/2 of the New Testament.

 

[BenFTW]

There seems to be some behavior that Paul steps in and hands these people over to satan. How that looks like - I don't know. No more fellowship with them until there is a change in order to keep the other members from being defiled by their foul behavior?

It takes a spiritual person who has true spiritual authority to so such a thing and Paul only mentions it 2x times.

I am a firm believer in church discipline but only if it is done by "spiritually mature Christians".

I don't mean someone that has necessary been a pastor for 30 years because they could still be a baby Christian. Time being a Christian does not equate to being spiritually mature - nor does being a pastor for 30 years, nor does knowing the Greek and Hebrew, nor does it because you have memorized 1/2 of the New Testament.

Right, its always with restoration in mind. The question attempts to get people to think about their "daily sin" in accordance with scripture, and how is it they sin daily when scripture obviously shows believers being corrected and excommunicated for sin. If we are sinning all the time, then according to scripture, the church building would be empty, haha.

 

[Hungry]

Great point Ben! Perhaps the modern Church has been preaching too much forgiveness and not enough self control.

 

[wsblind]

Many Christians will admit they sin all the time, daily or weekly. This is peculiar when we consider verses that speak of correcting fellow believers of their sin and even going to the extreme of excommunicating them from the fellowship. So, if we all are sinning all of the time, on a weekly basis, shouldn't we be getting excommunicated? haha

I just find it something to be pondered when we look at scripture and how believers are dealt with who sin, and then we state of ourselves that we sin often. How do we reconcile the two? Our sin and the confronting of sin, either in encouragement or in excommunication?

I suppose this might be a dig at the concept that we sin daily, weekly, or monthly, but it does make an interesting point. Should we all be excommunicated? Handed over to satan? Why does scripture seem to speak of us being set free from sin's dominion and yet we claim daily sin, and if that be the case, doesn't scripture speak of addressing such sin in a number of ways?

We are all believer priests. We are priests over our OWN salvation and OWN sin's. This will and Does get overlooked........since we are priests over our OWN salvation and lives we have PRIVACY to operate in that priesthood.

Scripture speaks of addressing others sin's if we are personally sinned against or if it directly disrupts the local assembly.

And yes, if we were called to be fruit or sin inspectors............we would all be sleeping in on our worship/study days.

 

[BenFTW]

We are all believer priests. We are priests over our OWN salvation and OWN sin's. This will and Does get overlooked........since we are priests over our OWN salvation and lives we have PRIVACY to operate in that priesthood.

Scripture speaks of addressing others sin's if we are personally sinned against or if it directly disrupts the local assembly.

And yes, if we were called to be fruit or sin inspectors............we would all be sleeping in on our worship/study days.

Uh, what? lol Jesus is my High Priest and He is able to save me completely because He lives forever interceding on my behalf. I know there is a verse that speaks of us as being kings and priests but your take on it here is perplexing.

 

[bestbefore1973]

Many Christians will admit they sin all the time, daily or weekly. This is peculiar when we consider verses that speak of correcting fellow believers of their sin and even going to the extreme of excommunicating them from the fellowship. So, if we all are sinning all of the time, on a weekly basis, shouldn't we be getting excommunicated? haha

I just find it something to be pondered when we look at scripture and how believers are dealt with who sin, and then we state of ourselves that we sin often. How do we reconcile the two? Our sin and the confronting of sin, either in encouragement or in excommunication?

I suppose this might be a dig at the concept that we sin daily, weekly, or monthly, but it does make an interesting point. Should we all be excommunicated? Handed over to satan? Why does scripture seem to speak of us being set free from sin's dominion and yet we claim daily sin, and if that be the case, doesn't scripture speak of addressing such sin in a number of ways?

Even though it says to excommunicate a member who wilfully lives in sin, notice that it is under extreme circumstances. It also says not to leave that person all alone, but to keep in contact with them.

 

[wsblind]

Uh, what? lol Jesus is my High Priest and He is able to save me completely because He lives forever interceding on my behalf. I know there is a verse that speaks of us as being kings and priests but your take on it here is perplexing.

Work out your OWN salvation.Yes, The Lord Jesus Christ saved us completely and FOREVER. But we are free to work out our OWN salvation in time>>>>experiential sanctification.

I don't need some self righteous prig to "pick" out my faults and my sins and have them work out my salvation. Not saying you are doing this Ben. But something seems to have changed for you.

 

[limey410]

Many Christians will admit they sin all the time, daily or weekly. This is peculiar when we consider verses that speak of correcting fellow believers of their sin and even going to the extreme of excommunicating them from the fellowship. So, if we all are sinning all of the time, on a weekly basis, shouldn't we be getting excommunicated? haha

I just find it something to be pondered when we look at scripture and how believers are dealt with who sin, and then we state of ourselves that we sin often. How do we reconcile the two? Our sin and the confronting of sin, either in encouragement or in excommunication?

I suppose this might be a dig at the concept that we sin daily, weekly, or monthly, but it does make an interesting point. Should we all be excommunicated? Handed over to satan? Why does scripture seem to speak of us being set free from sin's dominion and yet we claim daily sin, and if that be the case, doesn't scripture speak of addressing such sin in a number of ways?

There is no reconciliation of sin. As far as God is concerned the sin issue between us and Him was resolved on the cross. The true reconciliation between us and Him can then occur. When we are focusing on Him and trusting in what was accomplished for us on the cross we certainly sin less. But we are Saints that sin. We will never be able to stop sinning until we shed our fleshly bodies. We cannot be excommunicated from the Holy Spirit as a result of our sin. I am not excusing sin, for it is evil and it took the death of Jesus to overcome it. But it HAS been overcome, so now we focus on our relationship with Him.

 

[Pemican]

I find it very hard to believe anyone who claims to go very long without sin. We all sin and quite a lot, especially as baby Christians. Our sins are against the righteousness of God (Psm 51:4) and we can confess them to the Father and be forgiven instantly (1Jn 1:9). As a believer matures he recognizes and says no to sin more often because he wants to please God, not come under divine discipline, and because he has learned that it is the best way to live, in the filling of the Holy Spirit. In addition as he matures he learns about all the subtle sins and recognizes in himself weaknesses he didn't even know he had. He learns to guard his soul and check his attitude.

There are private sins (mental attitude for example), and sins that become publicly known. Publicly known sins and offenses can cause division in a local church if they are not dealt with properly.
Mat 18:15-17 outlines a four step process for dealing with an offensive believer. If none of the first three step handle the situation, the extreme measure of kicking a believer out of the local church may be necessary because he refuses to be corrected, and rejects the authority of the local church (deacons/elders and pastor). This does not mean he has lost his salvation or that he can no longer grow spiritually and correct his ways. But he has to be removed for the sake of maintaining the peace within the local body of believers.

 

[wsblind]

There is no reconciliation of sin. As far as God is concerned the sin issue between us and Him was resolved on the cross. The true reconciliation between us and Him can then occur. When we are focusing on Him and trusting in what was accomplished for us on the cross we certainly sin less. But we are Saints that sin. We will never be able to stop sinning until we shed our fleshly bodies. We cannot be excommunicated from the Holy Spirit as a result of our sin. I am not excusing sin, for it is evil and it took the death of Jesus to overcome it. But it HAS been overcome, so now we focus on our relationship with Him.

Great post. Did Jesus Christ pay for ALL sin or not? It seems that many don't believe it. Sin is THE topic for most believers.

 

[BenFTW]

Work out your OWN salvation.Yes, The Lord Jesus Christ saved us completely and FOREVER. But we are free to work out our OWN salvation in time>>>>experiential sanctification.

I don't need some self righteous prig to "pick" out my faults and my sins and have them work out my salvation. Not saying you are doing this Ben. But something seems to have changed for you.

I am simply presenting a question that makes one come face to face with their belief system on sin and its quantifiable occurrence. Someone claims they sin daily, and the crowd cheers, "We all do!" Yet, lets then consider what scripture says about those people sinning blatantly, and even confessing before all that they do so.

Scripture speaks of correcting a brother or sister in Christ, and even going so far as to excommunicate them from the fellowship of the brethren (for a time until restoration). It speaks of such sinning as needing to be addressed, and even in your example of working out your own salvation, I understand your point on privacy and not being a fruit inspector of others, but the precedent is given in scripture. I agree with self-examination as opposed to cross examination, other people inquiring about your faith as opposed to you, yourself, confirming it.

The point isn't about me, or anyone else examining another's walk but the disconnect in our minds that we sin daily, often, or weekly (however you want to word it) and yet scripture plainly states consequences for this, and we don't reconcile this with scripture. How is it that we sin so often having yet been sanctified and set free from sin's dominion and then according to the Word, such sinning should lead to correction or excommunication?

The question address the premise that believers sin all the time. If this is the case, we'd better start excommunicating and correcting (being a tad facetious)! This thread, in particular, isn't about fruit inspection so much so as reconciling daily sin with excommunication. According to scripture, if people really are this active in sin it needs to be addressed. The question sort of reveals the absurdity of such claims that all Christians sin all the time (every day, day in and day out), because if they do, we'd all be excommunicated.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Many Christians will admit they sin all the time, daily or weekly. This is peculiar when we consider verses that speak of correcting fellow believers of their sin and even going to the extreme of excommunicating them from the fellowship. So, if we all are sinning all of the time, on a weekly basis, shouldn't we be getting excommunicated? haha

I just find it something to be pondered when we look at scripture and how believers are dealt with who sin, and then we state of ourselves that we sin often. How do we reconcile the two? Our sin and the confronting of sin, either in encouragement or in excommunication?

I suppose this might be a dig at the concept that we sin daily, weekly, or monthly, but it does make an interesting point. Should we all be excommunicated? Handed over to satan? Why does scripture seem to speak of us being set free from sin's dominion and yet we claim daily sin, and if that be the case, doesn't scripture speak of addressing such sin in a number of ways?

The excommunication was for people in the church living in sin after being corrected multiple times but persisted in the sin only hurting the body of the church.

And so they live back into the world hoping that trials of the world and consequences of sin will guide them back to life in Christ.

Thats one way God is able to use satin to bring believers back who fall away.

We must also remember God gave the apostles some kind of apostle authority that allowed them to do things we cant. Like what Peter did with the 2 stealing and lying to the Spirit.

 

[wsblind]

I am simply presenting a question that makes one come face to face with their belief system on sin and its quantifiable occurrence. Someone claims they sin daily, and the crowd cheers, "We all do!" Yet, lets then consider what scripture says about those people sinning blatantly, and even confessing before all that they do so.

Scripture speaks of correcting a brother or sister in Christ, and even going so far as to excommunicate them from the fellowship of the brethren (for a time until restoration). It speaks of such sinning as needing to be addressed, and even in your example of working out your own salvation, I understand your point on privacy and not being a fruit inspector of others, but the precedent is given in scripture. I agree with self-examination as opposed to cross examination, other people inquiring about your faith as opposed to you, yourself, confirming it.

The point isn't about me, or anyone else examining another's walk but the disconnect in our minds that we sin daily, often, or weekly (however you want to word it) and yet scripture plainly states consequences for this, and we don't reconcile this with scripture. How is it that we sin so often having yet been sanctified and set free from sin's dominion and then according to the Word, such sinning should lead to correction or excommunication?

The question address the premise that believers sin all the time. If this is the case, we'd better start excommunicating and correcting (being a tad facetious)! This thread, in particular, isn't about fruit inspection so much so as reconciling daily sin with excommunication. According to scripture, if people really are this active in sin it needs to be addressed. The question sort of reveals the absurdity of such claims that all Christians sin all the time (every day, day in and day out), because if they do, we'd all be excommunicated.

For me It is pretty simple. My flesh sins about every nano second. The new creation in Christ CANNOT sin.

So how much do we live in the flesh rather than the new creation? Because we can CHOOSE which one we want to live in.

And the more I study.......I believe I live in the flesh more often than my new creation. As I grow in His grace and knowledge and mature in Christ, that will change. But it takes study,study and more study of His mind(growing in His grace and knowledge) for that to become possible. If I just study once or twice a week.....I can count on living in my flesh more than my new creation in Christ.

 

[limey410]

Great post. Did Jesus Christ pay for ALL sin or not? It seems that many don't believe it. Sin is THE topic for most believers.

I went for years, trying to please God, stop Sin, repent, obey, sin, repent, obey, sin.
But that sacrifice means nothing to God.
The only sacrifice worth anything is His (Jesus) for us. Jesus is the High Priest who shed His own blood for the complete forgiveness of our sin. Ultimate sacrifice.
God wants us to embrace that, trust that, rely on that. Then we can truly know Him. Understand his Love and acceptance for us, that is truly based on Him and all on Him.
Not any of our machinations or empty sacrifices that prove nothing. If they did, then we could boast, and compare, and tell everyone else how they are to live by our evaluation of what is righteous. If our sacrifices mean anything then Christs sacrifice is diminished.

Problem: Sin and death was the bad news.
Solution: The Gospel, forgiveness of sins and life everlasting is the good news.

 

[Crustyone]

The idea of sinning often every day is misleading. God wants us to pray continually, so I would assume that when we don't offer a prayer for something He did for us, a plate fell on the floor and didn't break, for instance, or something that went wrong and we need His help for, then I suspect He may consider that a sin, minimal, but sin nonetheless. The single sin that is repeated without desire to stop is most likely the ones referred to by Paul. Unless a person has a desire to stop, friends and church members won't be able to help him or her, but that person may be causing undue pull on other members to do something similar, hence the excommunication.

 

[Crustyone]

How come I don't have any "like"s to click on from post #15 on?

 

[Sully]

For me It is pretty simple. My flesh sins about every nano second. The new creation in Christ CANNOT sin.

So how much do we live in the flesh rather than the new creation? Because we can CHOOSE which one we want to live in.

And the more I study.......I believe I live in the flesh more often than my new creation. As I grow in His grace and knowledge and mature in Christ, that will change. But it takes study,study and more study of His mind(growing in His grace and knowledge) for that to become possible. If I just study once or twice a week.....I can count on living in my flesh more than my new creation in Christ.

Kudos man! That's church.