How To Be Un-Saved

[NoNameMcgee]

And if somehow I did, according to your theology I'm still going where yer going, right?

to have a partial and broken assurance doesn't mean youre not born again....

today i havent seen you push works salvation

ive only seen you say that even after your born again
a child of God
a new creature
with a new heart and spirit
sealed by the power of God

you can still fall into unbelief and lose salvation

this is not true

the same way you can not convince a man to not believe he have a father in earth who he has seen evidence of

you cannot convince any born again believer his Father in heaven is not who He says


His sheep hear His voice


____________

Aaaaagain, God will do all these things to them that trust in Him. But not even God can make us love & trust Him.

again.......
i never said He will force anyone to do anything
or save unbelievers

i said a genuine faith lasts

He starts in His children
makes them new

and continues in them

we dont stop believing in Him after He places a new heart and spirit in us

we LIVE by faith

 

[NoNameMcgee]

ephesians 1

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

1 peter 1

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 John 2:19
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Hebrews 10:39
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

final bump

i need to go

i hope none of my posts offended you speaktome

that wasnt my goal here

im trying to show the truth about what it means to be born again...

 

[Ralph-]

This explains your error pretty well.


You are in such a works mindset you cannot fathom anything else. Even when scriptures in the bible contradict you.

Hebrews 7:18-19

[SUP]18 [/SUP]For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Its actually REALLY common to find people that think they have to work to earn Salvation. But then when you show them scripture they start getting really slippery in their twisting of meanings and interpretations.


​

If you say you are saved but do not keep God's commandments you are liar. I didn't say it, John said it.


"4The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him"-1 John 2:4


Now what was this about a "disannulling of the commandment"? Apparently, it doesn't mean what you and the church thinks it means. You owe it to yourself so you won't be turned away when Jesus comes back to find out what it means for the law to be annulled at the same time that Christians who know him keep his commandments or else they show themselves to not be saved.

But don't bother asking your church. They don't know the answer. They will comfort you and encourage you to continue in NOT keeping the commandments of God and will just keep telling you to tell yourself that you know him, even though John plainly said you are a LIAR and the truth is not in you if you do that.

 

[FlyingDove]

. This is equally applicable to Hebrews, and from the verses quoted Paul is admonishing the Hebrew Christians to make sure that there are no unbelievers among them. [/SIZE]

Nehemiah6, You say, QUOTE """Paul is admonishing""". Scripture doesn't reveal who wrote Hebrews. Therefore, you've misspoken once again. Not interested in reading another one of your BECAUSE YOU SAY SO - spin theories. A simple I WAS WRONG retraction should be placed. However, I won't hold my breath.

 

[Speak2Me]

final bump

i need to go

i hope none of my posts offended you speaktome

that wasnt my goal here

im trying to show the truth about what it means to be born again...

Naaw, not offended or angry at all.

 

[Chester]

Why do some "want" Salvation to be loseable so strongly?

LOL! Why do some "want" salvation to be unloseable so strongly?

 

[jimd]

This was on my Disqus this morning by CS Berean, and it was so good, I thought I'd share it here.


If a Born-Again Christian willingly chooses to lose their salvation, after receiving Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior and repenting of their sin (Acts 2:38, 16:31; Rom 10:9-10), the common-sense, logical reality is that God, the Father, would have to ask Jesus, God the Son, to give back His gift of love to Him and fail to honor His promise to never cast them out (Jn 6:37) and ask God, the Holy Spirit to disobey the Father's commands and permanently withdraw His presence. The person would have to un-drink the water of eternal life given by Jesus and so that they will be thirsty again (Jn 4:14).

Jesus would have to do the following:

Quit as their defense attorney (1 Jn 2:1)
No longer protect or keep them safe (Jn 17:9-12)
Divorce them (Rev 19:7)
Rescind their citizenship of Heaven (Jn 15:16; Eph 2:12-13,19)
Put them back into the world (Jn 17:16)
Blot out their names from the book of life (Rev 3:5)
Allow death and life, angels and rulers, things present and things to come, powers, height, and depth, and anything else in all creation, to separate them from the love of God found in Him (Rom 8:38-39)
No longer be their advocate before the Father (1 John 2:1)
Make them an un-new creation (2 Cor 5:17);
Make them un-near to Him (Eph 2:12-13,19)
Un-bury them and un-baptize them so that they will no longer walk in newness of life(Rom 6:4)
Un-crucify their old nature (Gal 2:20)
Un-adopt them (Rom 8:23)
Un-circumcise them (Col 2:11)
Un-complete them (Col 2:9-10)
Un-author their faith (Heb 12:2)
Un-finish their faith (Heb 12:2)
Un-hold them from the firm grasp of His hand (John 10:28-29)
Un-buy and refund the payment He made by His blood
Un-predestine them so they can no longer be conformed to His image
Un-sanctify them (John 17:17; Heb 10:14)
Un-deliver them from the domain of darkness (Col 1:13)
Un-transfer them out of His kingdom, where they were once conditionally sanctified daily (Rom 8:28-31; Eph 1:11)
Un-call them (Rom 8:30,9:24,; 1 Cor 1:2,9; Gal 5:13; Eph 1:18)
Un-justify them (Rom 3:24,28,5:9,10:10; 1 Cor 6:11; Titus 3:7)
Un-glorify them (Rom 8:25, 28-31)
Un-cancel all their spiritual debts (Col 2:13-14)
Un-seal them (2 Cor 1:22, 5:5; Eph 1:13, 4:30)
Un-wash them (Tutus 3:5)
Un-forgive them of all their sins (1 Cor 6:11)
Un-forget their sins (Heb 10:17)
Un-consider them holy (Eph 1:4)
Un-consider them blameless in His sight (Eph 1:4, 2:8; Rom 8:9,11:6)
Un-buy them (1 Cor: 6:19-20, 7:23-24)
Un-born them (1 Jn 2:29, 3:9, 4:7, 5:1,4,18)
Move out from living within them as the new Holy of Holies (1 John 2:19, 3:6,9; Rom 8:9)
Revoke their position of no longer living in His new nature (Rom 8:9)
Rescind and fail to honor His promise to never leave and forsake them (Heb 13:5)
Go back on and fail to honor His promise to never cast them out (Jn 6:37).
God, the Holy Spirit, who was given as a guarantee (2 Cor 5:5) would have to do the following:
Cut them out of His Will as co-heirs with Jesus (Rom 8:17).
Un-fill them (becoming un-Born-Again) (Col 2:9-10);
Un-anoint them (1 John 2:27)
Stop and undo His good work begun in them (Phil 1:6, 2:13)
Fail to honor His promise to keep them from stumbling until the end when Jesus comes again (1 Cor 1:8; Jude 1:24-25).

To say that an individual could be separated from the love of God or remove themselves from His firm grasp, and His promise to NEVER leave them, after He bought and paid for them, and they are His possession, as well as His dwelling place, the Holy of Holies, is at the very least, illogical and intellectually incongruous.

When God makes a promise, He NEVER reneges on, or breaks, His word.

Just saying...

Jesus does not have to do anything, it is the person who removes them self from His love.

 

[Grandpa]

If you say you are saved but do not keep God's commandments you are liar. I didn't say it, John said it.


"4The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him"-1 John 2:4


Now what was this about a "disannulling of the commandment"? Apparently, it doesn't mean what you and the church thinks it means. You owe it to yourself so you won't be turned away when Jesus comes back to find out what it means for the law to be annulled at the same time that Christians who know him keep his commandments or else they show themselves to not be saved.

But don't bother asking your church. They don't know the answer. They will comfort you and encourage you to continue in NOT keeping the commandments of God and will just keep telling you to tell yourself that you know him, even though John plainly said you are a LIAR and the truth is not in you if you do that.

It really does mean exactly what it says.

1 John 3:22-24

[SUP]22 [/SUP]And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.


Hebrews 7:15-19
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
​

 

[Budman]

You tell us, teacher.


"As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. 5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing."-John 15:4-5


What is the fruit that Jesus says a person can not bear unless they abide in the vine?

Jesus is talking about spiritual fruit, i.e., our treasure in heaven. I asked you, and you didn't answer, is what good work can a saved person do that a lost person can't.

And btw, even the lost can produce works that will have benefits in the hereafter. Jesus spoke of those who will suffer less in hell, than those of Sodom and Gomorrah, based on their works.

 

[Budman]

If you say you are saved but do not keep God's commandments you are liar. I didn't say it, John said it.

Then you have condemned yourself as a liar and as one unsaved, because you certainly don't keep His commandments. The Bible says no one can, not even the Jews to whom they were given.

They can't be kept because they were never meant to be. They removed no sins. They are merely a mirror to show the lost their sinfulness, and to point them to the Messiah.

Hypocrites are great at pointing out how others don't measure up while trying to hide the very same faults in themselves.

You love to thunder on about those who are "living in sin" while you yourself live in sin. You love to condemn those who don't "obey the commandments" while you yourself don't obey them.

You do this because of your arrogance and pride. You love the praise of men for your "holy" life and stance. Like the Pharisees who prayed loudly in public for the attention and adoration of those they kept in bondage to the Law.

You keep yourself in chains and desire little but to help forge chains for others to bear.

 

[notuptome]

LOL! Why do some "want" salvation to be unloseable so strongly?

They understand the severity of Gods wrath on sin. Eternity in the lake of fire is a fate worse than any man can imagine and fit only for the devil and his angels.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Budman]

Jesus does not have to do anything, it is the person who removes them self from His love.

Scripture says nothing in all creation can separate us from God's love, or remove us from God's hand. (Romans 8:38-39, John 10:28-29)

Are you a created being?

Then not even you can do it.

 

[RickyZ]

It's not that anyone wants salvation to be loseable. It's that some need a warning that it is, not a free pass to do whatever they want without consequence. Of course, the only way to lose it is to stop believing. And I think part of the problem is our inability to juxtapose our finite world with the infinite spiritual realm. In our physical world, one can accept and then later deny. In that way they are with us for a while. But by denying, they become as if they were never saved at all in the spiritual. That's how in this world the can be with us but in the spiritual they never were.

 

[notuptome]

It's not that anyone wants salvation to be loseable. It's that some need a warning that it is, not a free pass to do whatever they want without consequence. Of course, the only way to lose it is to stop believing. And I think part of the problem is our inability to juxtapose our finite world with the infinite spiritual realm. In our physical world, one can accept and then later deny. In that way they are with us for a while. But by denying, they become as if they were never saved at all in the spiritual. That's how in this world the can be with us but in the spiritual they never were.

Wandering back into shark infested water?

New creatures in Christ cannot be unconverted back into lost souls.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why do some "want" Salvation to be loseable so strongly?

because then they have control. Human nature does not want to give up control.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

LOL! Why do some "want" salvation to be unloseable so strongly?

Because they want God to have control completely

 

[BillG]

I did not say you can be obedient to attain salvation. You heard it that way because you are incapable of understanding a discussion about works and salvation any other way. You have been conditioned by a very ignorant church to only be able to hear it that way.

Obedience to the law shows that you are born again.


"3By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments."-1 John 2:3


And when you slip up Christ's blood is there to forgive.


"9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."-1 John 1:9


That's why we have to keep believing. Stop believing and you lose the effectiveness of Christ's blood ever ministering before the Father on your behalf (Hebrews 7:25).


If the law arouses sin in you, you show yourself to still be in the flesh and not born again. If you are born again you KEEP his commandments, not get aroused to sin by the law. So it's easy to see this has nothing to do with earning your salvation by keeping the commandments of God (the only way you know how to hear works and salvation in the same sentence). It has everything to do with keeping his commandments if you are born again.

What law is it that we are to be obedient to that shows we are born again?

How many times does one have to slip up for God to say "Enough is enough?

What is it we have to keep believing and why?
What is it we have to stop believing to lose the effectiveness of Christs blood?

I find it interesting that you say "If the law arouses sin in you, you show yourself to still be in the flesh and not born again and if you are born again you KEEP his commandments, not get aroused to sin by the law"

I'm hoping I have misread that.

Are saying that any notion to sin means that you are not saved?
Does not sin reside in the flesh that battles with the Spirit, our new nature?
If so then sin will be aroused.

So to me I'm reading you as saying.

"If you ever think about sinning then you are not born again"

If I read that correctly then posting 1 John 1:9 is totally irrelevant.

What church do you go to that is not ignorant to the very ignorant church that the person you responded to goes to.
I would be interested to know.

Does it have a website?

I would also ask that to the person you responded to.

 

[notuptome]

Because they want God to have control completely

Really doesn't matter because God has control whether they want Him to or not.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[jimd]

Scripture says nothing in all creation can separate us from God's love, or remove us from God's hand. (Romans 8:38-39, John 10:28-29)

Are you a created being?

Then not even you can do it.

Many are ignoring a lot of scripture that indicates we can but it is not a critical issue unless we become careless and wander back into a worldly lifestyle, rebelling against God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Many are ignoring a lot of scripture that indicates we can but it is not a critical issue unless we become careless and wander back into a worldly lifestyle, rebelling against God.

Is it that, or is it those who ignore scripture that says we can’t because they want to maintain control? They find it to difficult to give control to a God you can not see.