Some could do with a new chip installed...
So we're all robots....and we get to have some control over our "programming".
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Be transformed by the renewing of your mind. When people start identifying errors in their thinking they begin to build new neural pathways in their brains. Emotional reactions to pain or stress can be short circuited and new "highways" can be made into the prefrontal cortex. Its science man....and God new it long before we did. Interestingly, the old pathways shrivel up and die when new ones are built around them....and this has been visually confirmed with brain scanning equipment.
So we're all robots....and we get to have some control over our "programming".
So we're all robots....and we get to have some control over our "programming".
"Just because I understand my side never means I understand the other side."
Exactly.
Yet you argue your side pedantically, and unmovably, as if you actually understand everything.
If you don't understand what you're arguing about, you shouldn't be arguing as if you do.
1. First, Clarification:
When I said, "You should understand what you're talking about before you speak", anyone could tell, by simple context, I was specifically referring to Depleted, here and now, in this particular thread.
It was obvious I did not intend that as a general rule covering all speech at all times... and that I only meant it within the CONTEXT of my answer, referring to THIS situation, and my discussion with DEPLETED.
This is easily understood from the context, or from simply asking me what I meant.
2. What is reasonable:
It is reasonable, and fine, to have opinions, and make comments, and freely discuss any topic.
There's nothing wrong with open discussion.
It's reasonable to have a very low level of understanding on a topic, and still want to discuss it.
That's perfectly fine.
3 What is not reasonable.
It is NOT reasonable to be pedantic and immovable on a subject, when you admit you don't even know much about it.
It is wrong to be UNYIELDING, and PEDANTIC on issues we're ignorant about.
That's not ok.
It IS wrong if you take an IMMOVABLE RESOLUTE STAND, against a DIFFERENT POSITION... when you don't even know what that different position really believes.
That's not ok.
It's like saying you hate broccoli... and you haven't bothered to find out what broccoli is.
4. Did this unreasonable thing occur?
YES.
Depleted said clearly, "I'm still trying to figure out what the other side believes."
And yet, she is willing to take an IMMOVABLE STAND against their beliefs... without even know what they really are.
You cannot take a stand against something if you don't really understand what it is.
She freely admitted she has no idea what she's talking about...
yet she's willing to take an immovable stand on this thing she knows nothing about.
5. Was this thread really asking a sincere question, to seek enlightenment... or was the question just posed as an EXCUSE to argue?
The "robot question" was nothing but a thinly veiled excuse to start a fight... proof is below.
A. Depleted admitted she already had an immovable position on Calvinism.
B. She ridiculed the other side making the "robot claim"... showing she had preconceived opinions about the claim.
C. To break it down, we have this:
c1) She already had an IMMOVABLE POSITION on Calvinism,
c2) She already had PRECONCEIVED FEELINGS about the "robot" claim
c3) She immediately RIDICULED the robot claim, BEFORE the other side could address her question about it.
c4) She did not even WAIT FOR AN ANSWER TO HER QUESTION, before ridiculing the other side
D. THEREFORE:
We can conclude from her own words, that her "opening question" was NOT A SINCERE QUESTION SEEKING ENLIGHTENMENT... but only an EXCUSE TO START A FIGHT.... we know this because she admitted her preconceived opinions... and because she RIDICULED the robot claim before people even addressed it.
Depleted started this thread just to start a fight.
That is a logical conclusion from her own statements and actions.
She did all of this just to start a fight.
Conclusion:
This topic was just a "fake question" to start a fight, and then... Depleted admitted she didn't even understand the other side which she was adamantly arguing against.
* I don't know how this could be any more disingenuous, unintelligent, or contentious.
* The next time Depleted wants to fight, it would be more honest to just say, "I'm bored and looking for a fight."
Last edited:
S
"Completely sovereign" is a strict non ambiguous characteristic. However, it also offers a lot of flexibility. More than we can imagine considering God's ways are not our way's and His thoughts are not our thoughts. What if He could set the bookends of beginning (Adam) and the end (Revelation) on our reality and dimension and still have the power described within complete sovereignty to allow His creation to roam free? He could also have full knowledge of what we will do without assisting or inhibiting any action, until we cry out which He also has full foresight. He could allow this possibly because we can't individually effect the outcome, only the part we play. He could hypothetically know whether or not we'll receive salvation before we do or don't based on who we are.
Also, you can learn a lot from spying the enemy. The demon that whispered the words "Do as thou wilt will be the whole of the law" into Aleister Crowleys ear who in turn infected the psyche of the west and which is the philosophy that most conduct themselves, wouldn't have done so if it weren't possible for people to actually "do as thou wilt..."
This mystery is pretty elaborate.
Also, you can learn a lot from spying the enemy. The demon that whispered the words "Do as thou wilt will be the whole of the law" into Aleister Crowleys ear who in turn infected the psyche of the west and which is the philosophy that most conduct themselves, wouldn't have done so if it weren't possible for people to actually "do as thou wilt..."
This mystery is pretty elaborate.
Like you, Lynn, God saved me. I never said a sinner's prayer, or exercised some kind of imaginary "free will" which i do not find anywhere in the Bible.
God moved from being an atheist to an agnostic. The from agnosticism to deism. He kept giving me these "ahaha" moments, when he drew me closer and closer.
Then, one surprising night, in the back seat of a '75 Chev Blazer, my future husband talked to me about repenting from sin. Then God told me I would serve Him, and that He was the Saviour of the world.
It was not a voice one could choose. It was not a request. It just was! I wasn't saved, and then I was.
I somehow jumped all the hurdles about who Jesus was, whether he was God or not, and I just knew the truth. God did all that. And he has continued to walk with me, and transform me from that wonderful day over 37 years ago. And teach and guide me.
I think some people do get saved when they say a sinner's prayer. It is not the prayer that saves them, but God, completing the deal when he called them. So they confuse things, and think they made the choice, not God. I think that would be a hard struggle to be free from. The thought that we need to make all these decisions and choices to be saved.
People get saved who have never read the bible. They just heard the gospel, and God saved them. I remember long ago, reading a story of a man in China. He wanted badly to get into university. So he prayed, if there was a God, that he would get into University, and he promised to serve God the rest of his days.
Well, he was walking by a street corner evangelist soon after, and he heard the name of Jesus, being preached. The minute he heard that name, he knew that was who he prayed to. He did get into university, and continued to serve God. Now, how did he know it was Jesus? Because Jesus told him! He told him who he was, through the preaching of the gospel by a street evangelist, and then God saved him.
Sorry, I cannot tell you the other side, either!
God moved from being an atheist to an agnostic. The from agnosticism to deism. He kept giving me these "ahaha" moments, when he drew me closer and closer.
Then, one surprising night, in the back seat of a '75 Chev Blazer, my future husband talked to me about repenting from sin. Then God told me I would serve Him, and that He was the Saviour of the world.
It was not a voice one could choose. It was not a request. It just was! I wasn't saved, and then I was.
I somehow jumped all the hurdles about who Jesus was, whether he was God or not, and I just knew the truth. God did all that. And he has continued to walk with me, and transform me from that wonderful day over 37 years ago. And teach and guide me.
I think some people do get saved when they say a sinner's prayer. It is not the prayer that saves them, but God, completing the deal when he called them. So they confuse things, and think they made the choice, not God. I think that would be a hard struggle to be free from. The thought that we need to make all these decisions and choices to be saved.
People get saved who have never read the bible. They just heard the gospel, and God saved them. I remember long ago, reading a story of a man in China. He wanted badly to get into university. So he prayed, if there was a God, that he would get into University, and he promised to serve God the rest of his days.
Well, he was walking by a street corner evangelist soon after, and he heard the name of Jesus, being preached. The minute he heard that name, he knew that was who he prayed to. He did get into university, and continued to serve God. Now, how did he know it was Jesus? Because Jesus told him! He told him who he was, through the preaching of the gospel by a street evangelist, and then God saved him.
Sorry, I cannot tell you the other side, either!
To repent is an act of the will, it means you are walking south and you chose to turn around and begin to walk north. You did not have to make that choice, you could have chosen to remain walking south. You exercised your God given free will to chose God, the Lord did not make you make that choice or else that would be forced salvation. Anyway, I liked your story, it demonstrates the desire of God to save someone.
D
You have no skills whatsoever in mind reading or telepathy. This is no more that someone understanding basic football and yet not getting the difference in motion between a punter and a kicker.
Boy, you sure like to talk a lot. Too bad you have no clue what your talking about. And so many words just to prove yourself, and glowing because you think your understanding is superior.
Fake fight? I can fight if I want. You're sure itching for one now. This isn't a fight. Someone actually has to think I am a robot before they can answer my question (or at least understand where they're coming from and what they mean.) Meanwhile, you're all about proving how good you are at discerning. You're not. You're not even in the right city, once more the right ball park.
I'd be embarrassed for you, except your so proud of saying a big pile of manure. If you're not embarrassed, why should I be embarrassed for you?
So, only think you're left to do is keep on coming up with this huge layer of compost from the barn of many bulls, and call it something special, while everyone else knows it's just a big pile of cow patties.
While don't you play this game on other posts. I'm sure you think 99% of people here are so inferior to you anyway. Share the silliness/wealth.
(Next time I'll dissect you like a frog too.)
Boy, you sure like to talk a lot. Too bad you have no clue what your talking about. And so many words just to prove yourself, and glowing because you think your understanding is superior.
Fake fight? I can fight if I want. You're sure itching for one now. This isn't a fight. Someone actually has to think I am a robot before they can answer my question (or at least understand where they're coming from and what they mean.) Meanwhile, you're all about proving how good you are at discerning. You're not. You're not even in the right city, once more the right ball park.
I'd be embarrassed for you, except your so proud of saying a big pile of manure. If you're not embarrassed, why should I be embarrassed for you?
So, only think you're left to do is keep on coming up with this huge layer of compost from the barn of many bulls, and call it something special, while everyone else knows it's just a big pile of cow patties.
While don't you play this game on other posts. I'm sure you think 99% of people here are so inferior to you anyway. Share the silliness/wealth.
(Next time I'll dissect you like a frog too.)
D
Repent isn't salvation. If it was, it would be called salvation.
Repent is what happens after salvation. God changed us, so we want to repent to get right with him, because, poof, suddenly we know that's the right thing to do. That wasn't our brain having that thought. That's up there with me suddenly knowing how to install plumbing pipes -- a miracle.
Repent is what happens after salvation. God changed us, so we want to repent to get right with him, because, poof, suddenly we know that's the right thing to do. That wasn't our brain having that thought. That's up there with me suddenly knowing how to install plumbing pipes -- a miracle.
I've actually talked to maxwell via pm. Pretty humble nice fella if you ask me. Really smart too. I have a lot of respect for him. If you would shut your giant yap once in awhile you might learn something. I'm guessing this will likely start another lengthy diatribe describing all kinds of different animals fecal matter. Anyway...sleep tight I guess.
M
All I know is if God hadn't revealed himself to me (both via Sunday school, church,
and a direct revelation. See my earlier post with a link to my testimony). I would not
have chosen God for myself.
We are all atheists until God reveals himself to us and the unction of the Holy Spirit,
turns that heart of stone into a heart of flesh.
The emotional touchy feely type of personality, may vocalise this more as an experience.
While the more practical logical personality may describe it as a deliberate choice.
But it's all God. He does the calling. I like one of the earlier posts which said God aligns us to
Himself.
Another way of putting it is it's like falling in love. You don't make a
conscious decision to fall in love with someone do you, it just happens doesn't it.
PS Lynn did not attack anyone on this thread so I don't know why max would
suddenly interrupt a great conversation with an attack. Lynn was merely expressing
an opinion.
For the record there are millions of Christians the world over who agree with her. So it's
not pedantic, obtuse or a fringe belief. (Just exploring my vocabulary a little, I have one
sometimes).
I realise others have a different view but that's why it's called a discussion. Discuss the
subject not the other people who are replying please.
and a direct revelation. See my earlier post with a link to my testimony). I would not
have chosen God for myself.
We are all atheists until God reveals himself to us and the unction of the Holy Spirit,
turns that heart of stone into a heart of flesh.
The emotional touchy feely type of personality, may vocalise this more as an experience.
While the more practical logical personality may describe it as a deliberate choice.
But it's all God. He does the calling. I like one of the earlier posts which said God aligns us to
Himself.
Another way of putting it is it's like falling in love. You don't make a
conscious decision to fall in love with someone do you, it just happens doesn't it.
PS Lynn did not attack anyone on this thread so I don't know why max would
suddenly interrupt a great conversation with an attack. Lynn was merely expressing
an opinion.
For the record there are millions of Christians the world over who agree with her. So it's
not pedantic, obtuse or a fringe belief. (Just exploring my vocabulary a little, I have one
sometimes
).I realise others have a different view but that's why it's called a discussion. Discuss the
subject not the other people who are replying please.
G
There is a difference between 'force' and 'persuade'...
God did not 'force' Jonah to do anything. Jonah could have refused God to the point that God might have decided to just kill him. Rather, God 'persuaded' Jonah to do His will.
To 'repent' - in biblical terms - is to "turn away from sin and the world - to God"; it does not mean "ask forgiveness for / of sins", as we like to use the word in modern parlance. It is the one-time "original" decision that we make to follow God. It is a necessary requirement of salvation. The thing itself is not salvation. It accomplishes all of the following "at the point of decision":
~ We acknowledge God as Supreme and ourself as inferior to God.
~ We acknowledge God as 'right' and ourself as 'wrong' ( in His eyes ).
~ We determine to no longer "continue" in the ways of sin and the world.
~ We determine to "continue" in the ways of God - to "follow after Him"...
It is a 'decision' of the mind and an 'act' of the heart.
If our 'repentance' is real ( if we are sincere ), then God - "knowing our heart" - saves us.
The Bible indicates that we can only make this decision if-when-and-as God draws us to Him.
The Bible also indicates that at-some-point-in-our-lives - at least once - God gives us this opportunity.
That is to say -- no one dies lost without having had at least one opportunity to "choose God"...
To "accept Christ" is to:
~ Acknowledge that God is Who He says He is.
~ Acknowledge that we are who-and-what God says we are.
~ Acknowledge that He is Holy and Righteous, and that we have sinned against Him.
~ Acknowledge that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, and that He died for our sins that we might live.
~ Believe "upon" the Word of God and the Work of Jesus Christ to save us.
This is to say -- believe that Jesus died our sacrifice, was buried, and rose from the grave victorious.
~ Accept the "free gift" of salvation from God, because of what Jesus did for us.
To "reject Christ" is to reject God altogether. ( The Bible says that if we reject the Son, we reject the Father, also. )
Knowing that we need to "get right with Him" because "it is the right thing to do" is not salvation; that comes from - and, is 'evidence' of - Him "drawing" us to Him. It is by / under the 'conviction' / 'persuasion' of the Holy Spirit of God - as He "draws" us to Him - that we 'decide' to follow Him. The actual decision itself only takes a moment. It is at that moment that we "give ourselves over to God" in 'acceptance' of Him. And, it is at that moment that He 'seals' us and 'saves' us.
'repentance' - then - 'salvation' - then - 'spiritual' growth
We "ask forgiveness for / of sins" as / when / after we realize we have failed Him. This is strictly about 'restoring' our relationship with Him -- 'salvation' having already been accomplished.
God did not 'force' Jonah to do anything. Jonah could have refused God to the point that God might have decided to just kill him. Rather, God 'persuaded' Jonah to do His will.
To 'repent' - in biblical terms - is to "turn away from sin and the world - to God"; it does not mean "ask forgiveness for / of sins", as we like to use the word in modern parlance. It is the one-time "original" decision that we make to follow God. It is a necessary requirement of salvation. The thing itself is not salvation. It accomplishes all of the following "at the point of decision":
~ We acknowledge God as Supreme and ourself as inferior to God.
~ We acknowledge God as 'right' and ourself as 'wrong' ( in His eyes ).
~ We determine to no longer "continue" in the ways of sin and the world.
~ We determine to "continue" in the ways of God - to "follow after Him"...
It is a 'decision' of the mind and an 'act' of the heart.
If our 'repentance' is real ( if we are sincere ), then God - "knowing our heart" - saves us.
The Bible indicates that we can only make this decision if-when-and-as God draws us to Him.
The Bible also indicates that at-some-point-in-our-lives - at least once - God gives us this opportunity.
That is to say -- no one dies lost without having had at least one opportunity to "choose God"...
To "accept Christ" is to:
~ Acknowledge that God is Who He says He is.
~ Acknowledge that we are who-and-what God says we are.
~ Acknowledge that He is Holy and Righteous, and that we have sinned against Him.
~ Acknowledge that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, and that He died for our sins that we might live.
~ Believe "upon" the Word of God and the Work of Jesus Christ to save us.
This is to say -- believe that Jesus died our sacrifice, was buried, and rose from the grave victorious.
~ Accept the "free gift" of salvation from God, because of what Jesus did for us.
To "reject Christ" is to reject God altogether. ( The Bible says that if we reject the Son, we reject the Father, also. )
Knowing that we need to "get right with Him" because "it is the right thing to do" is not salvation; that comes from - and, is 'evidence' of - Him "drawing" us to Him. It is by / under the 'conviction' / 'persuasion' of the Holy Spirit of God - as He "draws" us to Him - that we 'decide' to follow Him. The actual decision itself only takes a moment. It is at that moment that we "give ourselves over to God" in 'acceptance' of Him. And, it is at that moment that He 'seals' us and 'saves' us.
'repentance' - then - 'salvation' - then - 'spiritual' growth
We "ask forgiveness for / of sins" as / when / after we realize we have failed Him. This is strictly about 'restoring' our relationship with Him -- 'salvation' having already been accomplished.
D
On the fifth day, God created fish. They did their fishy thing -- ate, multiplied, migrated, and such. But out of his creation he worked it out that there "happened to be" one gigantic fish below one particular boat right smack in the middle of a storm God also put into action, all so one man, when tossed overboard (to appease God because the people on that boat truly understood God created that storm) was swallowed up. And then, it just "happened," that three days later when the guy in that fish was finally willing to go where God wanted him to go and do what God wanted him to do, that same fish puked him up onto the shores of Nineveh. Nineveh was the opposite direction that boat was going.
To me, that is God's complete sovereignty. I'm pretty sure that fish was just acting like a fish. I think we have as much free will as fish.
To me, that is God's complete sovereignty. I'm pretty sure that fish was just acting like a fish. I think we have as much free will as fish.
D
There is a difference between 'force' and 'persuade'...
God did not 'force' Jonah to do anything. Jonah could have refused God to the point that God might have decided to just kill him. Rather, God 'persuaded' Jonah to do His will.
To 'repent' - in biblical terms - is to "turn away from sin and the world - to God"; it does not mean "ask forgiveness for / of sins", as we like to use the word in modern parlance. It is the one-time "original" decision that we make to follow God. It is a necessary requirement of salvation. The thing itself is not salvation. It accomplishes all of the following "at the point of decision":
~ We acknowledge God as Supreme and ourself as inferior to God.
~ We acknowledge God as 'right' and ourself as 'wrong' ( in His eyes ).
~ We determine to no longer "continue" in the ways of sin and the world.
~ We determine to "continue" in the ways of God - to "follow after Him"...
It is a 'decision' of the mind and an 'act' of the heart.
If our 'repentance' is real ( if we are sincere ), then God - "knowing our heart" - saves us.
The Bible indicates that we can only make this decision if-when-and-as God draws us to Him.
The Bible also indicates that at-some-point-in-our-lives - at least once - God gives us this opportunity.
That is to say -- no one dies lost without having had at least one opportunity to "choose God"...
To "accept Christ" is to:
~ Acknowledge that God is Who He says He is.
~ Acknowledge that we are who-and-what God says we are.
~ Acknowledge that He is Holy and Righteous, and that we have sinned against Him.
~ Acknowledge that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, and that He died for our sins that we might live.
~ Believe "upon" the Word of God and the Work of Jesus Christ to save us.
This is to say -- believe that Jesus died our sacrifice, was buried, and rose from the grave victorious.
~ Accept the "free gift" of salvation from God, because of what Jesus did for us.
To "reject Christ" is to reject God altogether. ( The Bible says that if we reject the Son, we reject the Father, also. )
Knowing that we need to "get right with Him" because "it is the right thing to do" is not salvation; that comes from - and, is 'evidence' of - Him "drawing" us to Him. It is by / under the 'conviction' / 'persuasion' of the Holy Spirit of God - as He "draws" us to Him - that we 'decide' to follow Him. The actual decision itself only takes a moment. It is at that moment that we "give ourselves over to God" in 'acceptance' of Him. And, it is at that moment that He 'seals' us and 'saves' us.
'repentance' - then - 'salvation' - then - 'spiritual' growth
We "ask forgiveness for / of sins" as / when / after we realize we have failed Him. This is strictly about 'restoring' our relationship with Him -- 'salvation' having already been accomplished.
God did not 'force' Jonah to do anything. Jonah could have refused God to the point that God might have decided to just kill him. Rather, God 'persuaded' Jonah to do His will.
To 'repent' - in biblical terms - is to "turn away from sin and the world - to God"; it does not mean "ask forgiveness for / of sins", as we like to use the word in modern parlance. It is the one-time "original" decision that we make to follow God. It is a necessary requirement of salvation. The thing itself is not salvation. It accomplishes all of the following "at the point of decision":
~ We acknowledge God as Supreme and ourself as inferior to God.
~ We acknowledge God as 'right' and ourself as 'wrong' ( in His eyes ).
~ We determine to no longer "continue" in the ways of sin and the world.
~ We determine to "continue" in the ways of God - to "follow after Him"...
It is a 'decision' of the mind and an 'act' of the heart.
If our 'repentance' is real ( if we are sincere ), then God - "knowing our heart" - saves us.
The Bible indicates that we can only make this decision if-when-and-as God draws us to Him.
The Bible also indicates that at-some-point-in-our-lives - at least once - God gives us this opportunity.
That is to say -- no one dies lost without having had at least one opportunity to "choose God"...
To "accept Christ" is to:
~ Acknowledge that God is Who He says He is.
~ Acknowledge that we are who-and-what God says we are.
~ Acknowledge that He is Holy and Righteous, and that we have sinned against Him.
~ Acknowledge that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, and that He died for our sins that we might live.
~ Believe "upon" the Word of God and the Work of Jesus Christ to save us.
This is to say -- believe that Jesus died our sacrifice, was buried, and rose from the grave victorious.
~ Accept the "free gift" of salvation from God, because of what Jesus did for us.
To "reject Christ" is to reject God altogether. ( The Bible says that if we reject the Son, we reject the Father, also. )
Knowing that we need to "get right with Him" because "it is the right thing to do" is not salvation; that comes from - and, is 'evidence' of - Him "drawing" us to Him. It is by / under the 'conviction' / 'persuasion' of the Holy Spirit of God - as He "draws" us to Him - that we 'decide' to follow Him. The actual decision itself only takes a moment. It is at that moment that we "give ourselves over to God" in 'acceptance' of Him. And, it is at that moment that He 'seals' us and 'saves' us.
'repentance' - then - 'salvation' - then - 'spiritual' growth
We "ask forgiveness for / of sins" as / when / after we realize we have failed Him. This is strictly about 'restoring' our relationship with Him -- 'salvation' having already been accomplished.
- Predestination
- Election
- Calling
- Regeneration
- Faith
- Repentance
- Justification
- Adoption
- Sanctification
- Perseverance
- Glorification
Because repent comes after calling, regeneration, and faith.
R
Depleted,
I say this with respect, but what do you think you were doing to Maxwel? You put him down continually claiming you know him when in reality you never took the opportunity to know him and Sirk is right, he is a good guy just as Sirk is a good guy. Just do me a favor and get to know people before you jump to conclusions. For the record I think you are a good person who has been blessed with wisdom and that has helped me with certain situations, but God has also blessed Sirk and Max with knowledge and wisdom. Just because they are younger than you does not mean they cant show you a little something, just open your heart and eyes and you will be surprised into what you learn
I say this with respect, but what do you think you were doing to Maxwel? You put him down continually claiming you know him when in reality you never took the opportunity to know him and Sirk is right, he is a good guy just as Sirk is a good guy. Just do me a favor and get to know people before you jump to conclusions. For the record I think you are a good person who has been blessed with wisdom and that has helped me with certain situations, but God has also blessed Sirk and Max with knowledge and wisdom. Just because they are younger than you does not mean they cant show you a little something, just open your heart and eyes and you will be surprised into what you learn