"I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

lookuptoseeJesus · Jan 28, 2014

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

God can do anything he wants.

It is really funny that you take one verse on women and then limit them from preaching because of one verse.
You don't ask yourself if you have interpreted that verse correctly (you havnt) there are other ways to interpret that verse, and you should take the other ways to be consistant with the fact Paul put Phebe in charge as pastor of a curch and God chose the lady at the well to be the first evangelist and Deborah was a prophet of all of Israel leading them

but no
one falsly interpreted Bible text due to King Jame twisting and choice of words, (the word should be WIFE not WOMEN making it obvious it was talking in church while preaching, which is a no no
and yet
one verse misinterpreted is so powerful
you ban women from praching, that is sad

yet the bible has 760 verses telling us in old and new testament
telling us to keep the Sabbath and you ignore them all.

Oh, cnsistance, thou art a jewel!

It is obvious you dont follow or believe the bible but use it to twist the truth to do what you would like it to be.
sorry
Woman are pastors, have been pastors and will be pastors and prophets, no matter how much you dont like it

tucksma · Jan 28, 2014

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

lookuptoseeJesus said:

Ok first off it isn't just king james, most say women are not to teach. (Not exact words but general message).
2nd Paul never put Phebe as a Pastor.
Its one verse, but a GIANT concept shown throughout scripture that men lead, women are care takers.

With the idea that it should be wife not women, I will agree that it COULD be that. But it doesn't have to be. The word that is translated as women here is used as women more often then wife. Many times it couldn't mean wife when it is translated like that. There is no strong evidence that it should say wife, because the word turns into both.

I have actually asked if I have interpreted incorrectly, in fact for the longest time I did! I changed my view on it recently because I realized I was adding lies to scripture. First I went this it was just for this one set of people not everyone. That doesn't work though, because why would it then be in the bible ADDRESSED TO EVERYONE. Then I thought what you are now, that it is translated wrong. I then realized that the word doesn't have to be wife, but could be either and to my knowledge ALL bibles say women, but I could be wrong because I haven't read every single version.

So then I looked for any examples of women teaching men in biblical things (because this verse is only talking about the church, not in everything). There are none.

Then I used the idea that women are prophets. Then I realized a prophet really doesn't teach, they quote God. This is why a woman can read the bible to a man and it not be "teaching". Its because they are just quoting God, just like prophets. God's the real one teaching in that scenario.

Because of all of my searching, I realized what God really DOES mean that women are not to teach men. Saying otherwise is inputing your own words and ideas in the bible.

Also this is about women preaching, not the sabbeth.

tucksma · Jan 28, 2014

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

GreenNnice said:

I told you OVER AND OVER that those two verses are basically saying to read his thoughts PRESENTED IN THE BIBLE. His ways and thoughts are GIVEN TO US. You are not listening to me.

Also even if the bible didn't say that women are not to teach, those verses prove nothing other than that God is true, and higher than us. THose verses don't say he is using woman, and you assume woman pastors are being used. There is no evidence in those two verses that God's thoughts are that women should preach. His thoughts ARE higher than ours, but that doesn't then mean his thoughts are that women should pastor.

weakness · Jan 28, 2014

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

GreenNnice said:

Ok, so that's how your church believes, great. Paul believed it best, too, bishop is to be the 'husband of one wife,' I guess, to Paul, the single man is OUT as being able to be a bishop,or, pastor, too, eh ? Now, God can use a single man to pastor a church, too; don't you think Paul knows that, too, although He did not say it

Paul states so in 1 Timothy 3 the BEST way for a person to pastor in his opinion, or, God's . Whatever, the bottom line is that it's the BEST way, not the ONLY way. And, I'll repeat myself a third time , but God's ways are not our ways and His thoughts are different than ours, per Isaiah 55. And, 1 Cor. 2, so to rightly divide Scripture, it says that we don't know 'God's mind,' we don't know what God is thinking.

But, again, let's try and keep this focus on 1 Tim. 2:11-12 because that's where we are with this thread.

What importance do those five words, 'she must be quiet' mean to you? So many gloss over them, or, never talk about them when saying that this verse, or, verses both say that a woman should NEVER teach or have authority over a man ANYWHERE and that's not what Paul's saying. He's referring back to 1 Cor. 14:34-35 and how a woman is to be silent in a church service when a man, WHO IS A PASTOR

is speaking to her.[/QUOTEI think it means the same as "study to be quiet, and do your own business.... Quick to hear slow to speak and slow to wrath". this is true for all Gods children. "for as woman is by the man so is man by the woman" and that in the kingdom there is neither male nor female but are all as angels of God .But we all have different roles and measures of the measure s of Christ in the body.

GreenNnice · Jan 28, 2014

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

tucksma said:

The bible doesn't say women are not to teach, it says they are not to ask questions of the pastor's message while the service is going on, they are to be quiet, per 1 Cor. 14:34-35, and,then, in 1 Timothy 2:11-12 Paul repeats this, albeit in a more general sense, to 'women' or 'woman' in general, not 'wives,' like 1 Cor.14 does.

In 1 Timothy 2, it states that a woman is to be 'quiet' when a man is speaking to her or teaching her something, she is to be in full submission. That's all it says, tuck,as I've repeated now a couple times, 1 Tim.2:11-12 does NOT say that a woman cannot teach a man. It's a directive by Paul for them to be quiet though when a man is speaking the Word or teaching The Word

Those fivewords, 'she is to be quiet,' are very telling, of explaining that this is not about women unable to teach men in Sunday School

tucksma · Jan 28, 2014

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

GreenNnice said:

[h=3]1 Timothy 2:12[/h]King James Version (KJV)

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Liar.

Elizabeth619 · Jan 28, 2014

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

Two different threads about the same topic and it is hilarious to see some people contradict each other. Just shows people don't know what theyre talking about. IF you want to win an argument you may want to be consistent.

GreenNnice · Jan 28, 2014

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

tucksma said:

Tuck, don't say that bro

Sorry this gets you down so much, I really am. The Lord leads.

But, yeah, 'usurp' means 'swallow up' and a woman is not supposed to teach OVER or speak over or swallow up a man's authority who is teaching them something . They are to be quiet.

Can't you see this said in the verse

Elizabeth619 · Jan 28, 2014

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

tucksma said:

No. It doesn't say that because some dont want to believe it so they twist it to fit their own ideals yet have no idea how they contradicted theirself, and of course if all else fails they can say "that was only for the early church"

tucksma · Jan 28, 2014

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

Elizabeth619 said:

Great Post!

tucksma · Jan 28, 2014

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

GreenNnice said:

1. you assume it is about the man who is teaching. It is talking about all men, not just the man who is speaking.
2.Some versions say "men" not "the man" which shows that it is talking about men in general, not just a pastor who is a man.

This verse is saying that woman are not to teach men. Crystal clear.

I say you are a liar, because you are lieing. I quoted you directly, then bolded scripture that went DIRECTLY against what you said. That is clear cut lieing.

GreenNnice · Jan 28, 2014

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

Elizabeth619 said:

It was for that certain church in Corinth, elizzy, that is who Paul was speaking to, that we can't deny. But, correct, that same principle applies today. Women should not think they are superior to men when it comes to preachnig and teaching, men are the ones that are in MOST churches. 'Course, God can CALL a woman to pastor a church, too. And , has, and, is, and, will in the future, and, she will speak and teach to men, same with women. They are able to teach men, don't be silly, of course, they can. This 1 Tim. 2:11-12 simply talks about women to be quiet when a man is teaching something. They are to learn in quietness in full submission, not speaking out, blathering that they are right and the man is wrong. They are to listen IN QUIETNESS AND FULL SUBMISSION, just in caps for emphasis, milady, that is all

tucksma · Jan 28, 2014

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

GreenNnice said:

It doesn't say that. It says they are not to teach men, not that they are not to teach a man who is teaching them. Stop adding words to the bible that are not there.

GreenNnice · Jan 28, 2014

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

tucksma said:

Tuck, bro, I am praying, hoping I can explain 1 Timothy 2:11-12 to you in a better way, but, right now, I've done my very best. It is not lying, it is taking those two verses in full, connective context, and, it's you who assumes that a woman is not to teach a man. But, it's not at all what the verse is saying, it's simply a directive at the women to sit in submission and in quietness and listen to what's being said. Paul said these things quite adamantly, first, to wives in 1 Cor. 14:34-35 and now to women in general in 1 Timothy 2:11-12.

tucksma · Jan 28, 2014

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

GreenNnice said:

It says women are no to teach men.

[h=3]1 Timothy 2:12[/h]Revised Standard Version (RSV)

12 I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent.

This isn't just men teaching, but all men. You are adding words.

It doesn't say a man who is teaching her, it just says man. Stop adding your truth to God's truth.

GreenNnice · Jan 28, 2014

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

tucksma said:

Read it however you want, it is saying that she is to be quiet, not teaching or speaking over a man when she is learning something.

It's 'over a man,' tuck. It's you who wants to add words to Scripture

English Standard Version
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

New American Standard Bible
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

King James Bible
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

"The man" or "a man," take your pick, but NOT 'the men.'

tucksma · Jan 28, 2014

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

Difference in translation. Most say "a man" so lets just go with that.

Is "a man" specific? Nope. A man is a very general term. It doesn't say a man who is teaching, it says a man. This means a man is any man, not just a teacher, or it would say otherwise.

ecchapman · Jan 28, 2014

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

Peace through christ. Christ said I send you out as sheep amoung wolves. He said least ye be a child of god ye shall in no wise enter the kingdom of heaven. Brother in these alone however i know the topic is different and i will to go to and fro but for now please beleive christ said till heaven and earth move one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law and he also said for so persecuted they the phrofits which were before you. In all truth i say none are spotless except christ in this manner: if we say we are without sin we lie and the light is not in us. We must testify unto christ. christ gave thanks broke bread said this is my body given you the remission of sins and a point to understand is he then poured glass said this is my blood shed for you a new testiment of me. the old testiment says we shall return to the dust we were strewn from by death every olde tymer like issah kept this fully and it there not of christ. Im not wanting to pursecute nor cast doubt neither lead you nor lead you astray we are born again with christ unlike with man we are born in old tyme and then a woman bares it. With christ we do not have body of this world neither are born of this world. God said whomsoever beleive in him shall not perish. Everlasting life brother elijah said we have life and fact when jesus died he said elijah elijah elijah and before his death he said to he whom can accept it john is the elijah. Even in death which he over came we have elijah he said he is our brother in tribulation. No where do we have death. Let the dead bury the dead. Now olde tyme and you have heard it said by them of old tyme an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth but christ said unto us love your enimes do good to them that would harm you bless them that curse you pray for them that abuse you and despitfully use you. Fullment is not fullfilling the phrofits you might wounder about what christ meant when he said to fullfill what the phrofit issiah said right? Well its not how the phrofit beleived but said now having a god with us the holy christ or i should say with them of the first he commanded out of his mouth the mouth of god to he whom can accept it john is the elijah absolutly know before that john answered no when questioned by heathen. He had not been created untill god with us did so . The difference issah olde time looks up to be told gods will the new god is with us we are not of sad countenance and elijah did not bri g god god made him and he is of god an angel our brother us of the second. Do i wish not of me but i ask are you able to k ow what you are given to know. Im alway available it just takes pa ients. Elijah said the time is at hand be said i was in the lords day. I say there is no other day than the lords day. Where are you?

ecchapman · Jan 28, 2014

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

Peace and grace unto grace. I beleive christ he said the hypocrites enter atop the synogogs.... pushing a woman to be there by saying going with the flow of old tyme is it sincerly not to say then a woman was not to speak and why i shall not pull my heart from my treasure to hear an waxen ear. Brother testiment unto christ is holy truth and of them of the second. Along side you say when its to teach his young women. Give nothing less for paul is given the mystholy holy holy worthy is the Lamb who was slain to receive riches in glory and power known her forever I'm aneries of the kingdom if heaven and he called timothy yoked which not of himself but as christ said take my yoke upon you.....
i feel you should holdfast what you have till christ comes as he said in revelations. Always beleive him till heaven and earth move one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law.beleive in him andvwe have fellowship which i find few for straight is the way and narrow is the path that leadeth unto the kingdom if heaven and FEW be there that find it. Christ said its not righteous for a woman to teach a man. Its exactly as the spirit of truth telk you by knowing the truth. However when your good woman teaches your young women keep that single word of young women "your" for its truth that we preferone before us who comes before us. We only love one another as he loved us when we felloship here. Again i find few. A good woman would know her husband baptising his children lets say and she would know the word of christ being as he who does and teaches that which he does by her husband practise what you preach deal. She would not be of much and listen its not zero its not much wine. Perhaps a man can partake and do in rememberence infact commanded to by christ. He cleaves to wife which as presented to him by christ a delious morsol. Riped to shreads in much zeal. Let no man take your crown christ said in revelations. The elders which we should take example from which are before his throne toss their crowns at his feet saying holy holy holy worthy is the lamb who was slain to receive richies and glory and power forever amen. What good woman is without? It takes a good man to have faith a grain of mustard seed infact a child of god. Hang me sideways for i am not worthy. Peace out.

pickles · Jan 29, 2014

Re: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

Wasnt able to read everything in this thread.
So, hopefully wont be repeating another.

But this post and scripture tells me a woman sould not be argumenitive or speak over any man at church or when a man is teaching.
Not saying she cannot be a teacher.
Scripture also speaks to, if I recall, saying a woman should wait untill at home to speak to any concern or thoughts, with her husband.
Also scripture does speak to man looking to woman as the church, and listening to her wisdom.
But Im no athority on this, Just conversing in hope to learn.

God bless
pickles

"I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET."

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