Idols: Has the bible become an idol?

[shad]

Some think that because they have a bible to read and understand that on this basis they know God, know what pleases Him, what He wants from them, that it is His voice to them. This makes the bible an idol.

Because of this, the bible has replaced the leading of the Spirit. That makes the bible an idol.

Because of this, some convict others with unjust judgment.

Because of this, more harm has been done in the world than good.

Because of this, the bible has lost its authority in much of the church. (The written word has authority.)

Because of this, people who believe in God have no thought for Jesus Christ, either as Lord or as Savior.

Because of this, the unity of the Spirit is not.

Because of this, the Spirit is grieved.

The spoken word became the written word under the inspiration of God. The Spirit testifies as a witness of the written word that is inspired of God and guides the believer into the truth of the written word. Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted of the devil and guided Christ in His humanity as a man into the truth of the written word that was used against the devil / Mt 4. Jesus did not say, I am the word and you have no right to tempt me. He said, 'it is written, thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.' Jesus Christ was the word made flesh but He submitted to the written word in His humanity. He used the written word to resist the devil and the devil left Him. This is also how we resist the devil.

We submit to the written word in our humanity by faith and the Spirit testifies, as a witness, of the truth that we are submitting to. Example: The written word tells us as a mandate to go into all the world and preach the gospel and it produces the faith to do it. We as believers begin to obey that mandate by mixing faith with what Christ told us to do. The Spirit, who witnesses that we are the Sons of God, also bears witness that we are obeying the truth and fills us with the fulness of God to equip us with everything needed in obedience to that mandate. But we have to take that step of faith and go, so that the Holy Spirit can lead us and we can walk in the Spirit and not fulfill the lust of the flesh. We live in the Spirit but we live by every word of God. The Spirit is submitted to the written word that reveals Christ and the will of God for the believer. Without the spoken or written word the Spirit would have nothing to guide us with concerning the truth.

All things were created through the spoken word and nothing was created without it. The Father spoke it, the Son lived it as the God-man and the Holy Spirit reveals it to our hearts. We hear the Word, it produces faith in us so that we can live by it and the Holy Spirit guides us every step of the way. The Word of God is uncreated life because it came from God just as did the Holy Spirit. When we heard the Word of the gospel that was the power of God unto salvation. We believed in the name of Christ by faith and were saved. The Word produced faith and the Holy Spirit brought conviction to our heart through the Word to help us believe by that same faith. We were saved by grace through that faith and not of ourself, it is a gift of God. Salvation is the gift and it took the Word and the Spirit to save and regenerate us. It took the Word and the Spirit to reveal the work of the cross and produce the faith that we needed in order to believe. We could have rejected that work and turned from it in unbelief and not been regenerated.

If anyone thinks that we can make the scriptures or God's word an idol by excluding the Spirit, then it is also possible to make the Spirit an image of an idol by excluding the Word, God's incorruptible seed.

 

[VW]

The spoken word became the written word under the inspiration of God. The Spirit testifies as a witness of the written word that is inspired of God and guides the believer into the truth of the written word. Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted of the devil and guided Christ in His humanity as a man into the truth of the written word that was used against the devil / Mt 4. Jesus did not say, I am the word and you have no right to tempt me. He said, 'it is written, thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.' Jesus Christ was the word made flesh but He submitted to the written word in His humanity. He used the written word to resist the devil and the devil left Him. This is also how we resist the devil.

We submit to the written word in our humanity by faith and the Spirit testifies, as a witness, of the truth that we are submitting to. Example: The written word tells us as a mandate to go into all the world and preach the gospel and it produces the faith to do it. We as believers begin to obey that mandate by mixing faith with what Christ told us to do. The Spirit, who witnesses that we are the Sons of God, also bears witness that we are obeying the truth and fills us with the fulness of God to equip us with everything needed in obedience to that mandate. But we have to take that step of faith and go, so that the Holy Spirit can lead us and we can walk in the Spirit and not fulfill the lust of the flesh. We live in the Spirit but we live by every word of God. The Spirit is submitted to the written word that reveals Christ and the will of God for the believer. Without the spoken or written word the Spirit would have nothing to guide us with concerning the truth.

All things were created through the spoken word and nothing was created without it. The Father spoke it, the Son lived it as the God-man and the Holy Spirit reveals it to our hearts. We hear the Word, it produces faith in us so that we can live by it and the Holy Spirit guides us every step of the way. The Word of God is uncreated life because it came from God just as did the Holy Spirit. When we heard the Word of the gospel that was the power of God unto salvation. We believed in the name of Christ by faith and were saved. The Word produced faith and the Holy Spirit brought conviction to our heart through the Word to help us believe by that same faith. We were saved by grace through that faith and not of ourself, it is a gift of God. Salvation is the gift and it took the Word and the Spirit to save and regenerate us. It took the Word and the Spirit to reveal the work of the cross and produce the faith that we needed in order to believe. We could have rejected that work and turned from it in unbelief and not been regenerated.

If anyone thinks that we can make the scriptures or God's word an idol by excluding the Spirit, then it is also possible to make the Spirit an image of an idol by excluding the Word, God's incorruptible seed.

I understand what you are saying, but I won't rebut it now. I will ask this question though, "How can you make God an idol? The Holy Spirit is God, and He is worthy to receive worship and praise and glory. The bible is not God, and as such not worthy to receive worship and praise and glory.

In His peace my friend,

 

[superdave5221]

Acts 17: 2 As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

Unbelievers have not the Holy Spirit within them. Evidently Luke is saying that it IS possible to teach salvation using only intellectual reasoning from the scriptures. Certainly God's Spirit works on the hearts of the listeners, but without the scriptures there would be no call to Jesus.

Acts 17: 11 Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

They didn't ask the Spirit to reveal the truthfulness of Paul's words, they EXAMINED THE SCRIPTURES.

Acts 18:28 For he vigorously refuted the Jews in public debate, proving from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.

Romans 15: 4 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope

1 Corinthians 15: 3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,

1 Corinthians 15: 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

2 Timothy 3: 15 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

I will use the same argument you used above. If you cannot idolize the Holy Spirit because He is God, how can you idolize the scriptures, when they are HOLY!!!!!

 

[VW]

Acts 17: 2 As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

Unbelievers have not the Holy Spirit within them. Evidently Luke is saying that it IS possible to teach salvation using only intellectual reasoning from the scriptures. Certainly God's Spirit works on the hearts of the listeners, but without the scriptures there would be no call to Jesus.

Acts 17: 11 Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

They didn't ask the Spirit to reveal the truthfulness of Paul's words, they EXAMINED THE SCRIPTURES.

Acts 18:28 For he vigorously refuted the Jews in public debate, proving from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.

Romans 15: 4 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope

1 Corinthians 15: 3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,

1 Corinthians 15: 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

2 Timothy 3: 15 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

I will use the same argument you used above. If you cannot idolize the Holy Spirit because He is God, how can you idolize the scriptures, when they are HOLY!!!!!

Do you think that these people were understanding what was in the scriptures without the Spirit? Can one come to God unless he be drawn? Jesus said that we did not choose Him, but He chose us.

Jesus was buried and raised again to fulfill prophecy. Do I believe in Him because of prophecy? Not any more, but I used to. And while I knew that He had to be the Christ, until I knew Him, I was not His. When I became His, I could hear His voice.

Paul is talking to Timothy, who has known the scriptures from childhood. Your translation is strange. The NASB says it this way: "You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."

Knowing from whom you have learned them. It is not hard to use the scriptures to prove a point. A person can use it to say almost anything. I do not like taking one verse, or part of a sentence, actually, I don't like to take any less than a paragraph when I am trying to understand something from the scriptures.

I am not saying that the scriptures are not holy. I am not saying that they are not to be used. I am saying that most all the time if we have an understanding that is not from the Spirit that is out of the scriptures, that we should suspect that understanding, and seek the Spirit's wisdom in this, as in all things.

 

[superdave5221]

Maybe it is possible to idolize something that is holy. No need to answer that. However,

An addition to the above. To misuse the scriptures for one's own purposes is NOT Idolatry. The examples that you use, where people use the scriptures to judge one another is not idolatry. Paul says that we ARE to judge one another in the body of Christ. And the standard of that judgement is THE SCRIPTURES. We ARE NOT to judge the world however. Those in the past who have used the scriptures to murder and steal are intentionally misinterpretating it because the Bible is clear that we are not to judge unbelievers.

Perhaps it is just semantics. You are using an overly broad definition of idolatry.

I guess the reason I have taken such an interest in this thread is because your arguments seem to be secular in nature. Your argument is the same one I hear from the world all of the time. The bible has historically been misused to murder and commit other atrocities, they say. And this is used as an argument to discount the bible as nothing but propaganda and fiction. I take great offense at this argument because I truly believe that the bible is the Word of God, and interpreted correctly will not only lead us to Jesus, but also bring us much happiness and contentment on earth as well. I don't think that we need brothers in Christ making the world's argument for them. Is it not better to just say that we need to repent, pray to God for wisdom and forgiveness of our sins, obey him, love one another, and preach the Word of God to all people everywhere?

It is interesting that polls show that the majority of people are favorable in their opinions of Jesus Christ.

And yet those same polls show that the majority of people have unfavorable opinions of Christians.

 

[superdave5221]

Do you think that these people were understanding what was in the scriptures without the Spirit? Can one come to God unless he be drawn? Jesus said that we did not choose Him, but He chose us.

Jesus was buried and raised again to fulfill prophecy. Do I believe in Him because of prophecy? Not any more, but I used to. And while I knew that He had to be the Christ, until I knew Him, I was not His. When I became His, I could hear His voice.

Paul is talking to Timothy, who has known the scriptures from childhood. Your translation is strange.

I use the NIV.

Knowing from whom you have learned them. It is not hard to use the scriptures to prove a point. A person can use it to say almost anything. I do not like taking one verse, or part of a sentence, actually, I don't like to take any less than a paragraph when I am trying to understand something from the scriptures.

Exactly. I have seen many people in CC use verses taken out of context to prove points. That is why it is necessary to go back and read more than just the verse that comes up when searching a topic. When taken IN context, many things CAN be proven RELIABLY, with scriptures.

I am not saying that the scriptures are not holy. I am not saying that they are not to be used. I am saying that most all the time if we have an understanding that is not from the Spirit that is out of the scriptures, that we should suspect that understanding, and seek the Spirit's wisdom in this, as in all things.

Agreed.

Praise God!

 

[VW]

Agreed.

Praise God!

Yes, praise God.

You know, I agree that many things can be proven using the scriptures, but I really do wonder what good it has ever done. I believe that God uses the scriptures. I really try not to use them myself to prove anything. I have seen many arguments in which the scriptures are used as proof of both sides, and no one wins. Well, the devil maybe. But when the Spirit uses the scriptures, nothing but good can come of it. There will be no error found in what He says by the scriptures, and I take real comfort in that.

In His love and peace,
vic

 

[shad]

I understand what you are saying, but I won't rebut it now. I will ask this question though, "How can you make God an idol? The Holy Spirit is God, and He is worthy to receive worship and praise and glory. The bible is not God, and as such not worthy to receive worship and praise and glory.

In His peace my friend,

You know that there is nothing in the scriptures that instructs us to worship, praise or glorify the Holy Spirit. It has nothing to do with the Spirit not being worthy of these things, it's because of the Spirit's function in the Godhead and in the believer's life, which is to be the revealer of the written word that instructs us to worship, praise and glorify the Father and the Son, who sits at the right hand of the Father. We can't use John 4:23,24 to justify that we are to worship the Spirit because God is a Spirit. The same way that we are to worship God in spirit and truth we were born of God by water (water of God's word Eph 5:26) and the Spirit / Jn 3:5,6.

 

[VW]

You know that there is nothing in the scriptures that instructs us to worship, praise or glorify the Holy Spirit. It has nothing to do with the Spirit not being worthy of these things, it's because of the Spirit's function in the Godhead and in the believer's life, which is to be the revealer of the written word that instructs us to worship, praise and glorify the Father and the Son, who sits at the right hand of the Father. We can't use John 4:23,24 to justify that we are to worship the Spirit because God is a Spirit. The same way that we are to worship God in spirit and truth we were born of God by water (water of God's word Eph 5:26) and the Spirit / Jn 3:5,6.

So you are saying that we are not to worship the Spirit? When He is given to us so that we can worship in truth? I will say that I love the Spirit, just as I love God the Father and God the Son.

But, my meaning was, are we to worship the bible? You did not answer that.

 

[shad]

So you are saying that we are not to worship the Spirit? When He is given to us so that we can worship in truth? I will say that I love the Spirit, just as I love God the Father and God the Son.

But, my meaning was, are we to worship the bible? You did not answer that.

We don't worship the Bible (the written word) anymore than we worship the Spirit. We are thankful to God for sending us His Spirit but we are not commanded to love the Spirit because it is the Spirit that bears the fruit of love and sheds the love of God in our hearts to love the Father, to love the Son, to love ourselves, to love our neighbor and to love one another.

 

[VW]

We don't worship the Bible (the written word) anymore than we worship the Spirit. We are thankful to God for sending us His Spirit but we are not commanded to love the Spirit because it is the Spirit that bears the fruit of love and sheds the love of God in our hearts to love the Father, to love the Son, to love ourselves, to love our neighbor and to love one another.

Well, I will tell you something, the Spirit loves us! He is jealous for us, His love for us is a bright and burning fire. I can't conceive of not loving the Spirit of God. There are some things which are not written down, which the Spirit teaches us. But even in this, David loved the Spirit of God, and begged that it not be taken away from him. I hope that it does not make you think I am a heretic for loving the Spirit of God, but if it does, so be it, I will still love Him and seek to love Him more each day.

 

[shad]

Well, I will tell you something, the Spirit loves us! He is jealous for us, His love for us is a bright and burning fire. I can't conceive of not loving the Spirit of God. There are some things which are not written down, which the Spirit teaches us. But even in this, David loved the Spirit of God, and begged that it not be taken away from him. I hope that it does not make you think I am a heretic for loving the Spirit of God, but if it does, so be it, I will still love Him and seek to love Him more each day.

No I do not think you are a heretic in your heart, nor in your mind nor in the love that you have for God.

 

[VW]

No I do not think you are a heretic in your heart, nor in your mind nor in the love that you have for God.

I know you don't, I just sometimes am answering to strongly.

In His peace,

 

[kujo313]

Every physical gift that has been given to people by God has become an idol. One of the first was the ark of the covenant. At one point, the people of Israel actually took the ark and placed it out in front of themselves in battle, with the priests who tended the ark, saying to themselves that since it was from God, then God would fight for them, just because the ark which He had given them was in from of them, between them and their enemies. Of course, God is not bribed, nor is He forced into doing something. The priests were killed, and the ark was carried off by the Philistines.

Another idol was the tree which was lifted up in the wilderness with the serpent on it. The temple itself became an idol. The land itself became an idol. The heritage of Jacob who became Israel became an idol.

These things, some of them had spiritual qualities, the ark actually was and if it still exist, is holy. I mean, you could not even touch it or you died. The temple was the dwelling place for the glory of God, until He left because of all the idols of the people.

People will have idols, it is the nature of the fallen man.

The bible is inspired by God, breathed by His Spirit. It is of God, a gift given in His love. And yet, Peter writing about Paul's contribution to the scripture by the Spirit says that some twist his words to their own destruction. What place does the bible hold in your heart?

The new covenant is that God will write His laws upon our hearts and in our minds. He will write them in us. I cannot write His laws in my heart, only He can do this for me and in me. When God writes His words in our hearts, it then becomes alive to us.

Where do we look for our truth?

There are 3 choices:

1.)The science and tecknowledgy of the world
2)The bible and the teachers of the bible
3)The revelation of God, through the bible, or whatever means He chooses. (He chose an ass once to reveal His truth.)

I beg that any answers be in His peace,

When my dad passed away in 1999, my union gave me a Bible. I used it for Bible Study at work and even marked some things with highlighter markers and pens. Another version of the Bible I gave away to a friend.
If we keep it on display and never open it , it can become an idol.

A friend of mine who'd mock me for being a Christian came into work one day with a very old Bible. He wanted me to look at it just to see if it was valuable enough to sell at an antique store.
Carefully I opened the pages to see that there was no red letters. (red letter versions didn't appear until the 1930s or so). I went to the front to see what the copywrite date was.

1867!!

I told him I'd give him $5.00 and I proceeded to open my wallet. He went nuts.

"ARE YOU CRAZY?! IT'S VERY OLD AND NEVER BEEN USED!!"
"Exactly", I replied. "The owner of this Bible NEVER read how God so loved her that He gave His only begotten Son to die for her and give her everlasting life!'
Then I picked up my duct-taped, pages folded, marked in many places Bible, and said, "THIS Bible is worth its weight in gold!"

Nuff said.

 

[VW]

When my dad passed away in 1999, my union gave me a Bible. I used it for Bible Study at work and even marked some things with highlighter markers and pens. Another version of the Bible I gave away to a friend.
If we keep it on display and never open it , it can become an idol.

A friend of mine who'd mock me for being a Christian came into work one day with a very old Bible. He wanted me to look at it just to see if it was valuable enough to sell at an antique store.
Carefully I opened the pages to see that there was no red letters. (red letter versions didn't appear until the 1930s or so). I went to the front to see what the copywrite date was.

1867!!

I told him I'd give him $5.00 and I proceeded to open my wallet. He went nuts.

"ARE YOU CRAZY?! IT'S VERY OLD AND NEVER BEEN USED!!"
"Exactly", I replied. "The owner of this Bible NEVER read how God so loved her that He gave His only begotten Son to die for her and give her everlasting life!'
Then I picked up my duct-taped, pages folded, marked in many places Bible, and said, "THIS Bible is worth its weight in gold!"

Nuff said.

If you think so.