If every member is ministering, who gets the paycheck?

[ember]

Phil, have you no idea the difference between the itenerent preacher and the local body elders? I grow weary!

Yes our movie is a flop and rejected. Just like the apostles were all flops and rejected, not to mention the Savior. And prophets. Paul rejected by some churches he started.yep, a flop.

All the Apostles were flops? Jesus was a flop?

Listen, we still appreciate and learn from the floppy Apostles and Jesus is the King of Kings and fulfilled his mission for which He had been sent to earth by the Father.

Say Jesus does not come back for 50 or 100 years...is anyone going to read your writing and be inspired to live for Christ ?

You would have to have a very unhealthy fleshly viewpoint on these men in order to perceive them as flops.

I think you may really want an earthly success and I pray God give it to you already so you have your reward.

Unbelievable

 

[Yet]

People crap on about grossly wealthy pastors, but I've only ever met pastors who have rather humble homes and lives. Some are lower-middle class, at the very most. Maybe it's more of an American thing.

It does not matter even if the guy doesn't take a dime. The fact that he has adorned his name with a title and lords it over His heritage is still in play.

 

[Mitspa]

Phil, have you no idea the difference between the itenerent preacher and the local body elders? I grow weary!

Yes our movie is a flop and rejected. Just like the apostles were all flops and rejected, not to mention the Savior. And prophets. Paul rejected by some churches he started.yep, a flop.

whats the movie...got a link? Maybe it was just early

 

[Yet]

I don't answer every stone thrown. I write only those things that I'm directed to. Jesus didn't answer every foolish accusation, only what the Father told Him to say.
Much of what I'm blasted for, I have already put forth many times using the word of God. Few there be that will speak to the scriptures I've presented so why should I get entangled in a one on one joust? What I teach from the word is for those who are still teachable and have, for a long time, sensed something out of joint with churchianity.

 

[Mitspa]

I have a group of believing friends (we meet and have communion and bible study) and we all do prison ministry and help recovering drug addicts ...our ministries win more souls to Christ and bring more new believers into a living relationship with Christ than all the local churches around us combined ...non of us get paid for our work , but I would say that the churches often support or efforts. Gods blesses us to the point we have all that we need personally (we all work full time jobs) and for our ministry...

 

[atwhatcost]

The NT gives us a beautiful picture of the open meeting assembly. Paul lays the ground work in 1Cor. 12 and 14, Ephesians 4, and Romans 12 for the MO of the body of Christ. No one telling another 'we have no need of you' like exists today.

In the first century, they 'discerned the body of Christ' aright! It was Jesus operating through all the folks!

So if every member is a functioning vessel, who gets the salary? Please take note when you read those chapters that the executive 'pastor' is missing. Maybe he went on a much needed vacation! That could be true if he was mentioned anywhere else in the word. He is not!

Epehesians 4 is speaking clearly of the empowering Christ and His spiritual gifts He's given unto all men. Look at the Greek, and those functions are singular. But does that mean that there is only one apostle, one prophet, one evangelist, one teacher, one poimen/shepherd, pastor? Of course not. It's pointing to the Holy Spirit that imparts those functions to different individuals at different moments in the context of the participatory meeting. Some maintain said functions for certain tasks such as evangelism, etc..

In light of the scriptures that describe the assembly of the saints and their open spiritual functions, '2 or 3 at a time, everything done decently and in order', I submit that most Christians, out of ignorance of the word, are indeed 'forsaking the assembling of themselves together', not forsaking getting together but forsaking the way we are to get together. How we function once we are together.

Right is is right and wrong is wrong and the 'body of Christ' has been lulled to sleep by wrong and we think it's 'having church'.

I have rattled on....you know me by now. The main question to you is this. If every member of the body of Christ is to minister in turn, who gets the pay check? Don't lay tradition on me. Lay scripture on me. The Greek for honor means honor, not money. So don't go there please!

Someone worth paying for the service or product.

Basic marketing 101

"What the market will bear." First axiom of marketing 101.

Broken records don't sell.

I'm writing a novel. It has to be good enough to be published. If I fail getting it published, it's because I'm not good enough. For some strange reason, even at 65 years old, you automatically assume if you make it, it is worth a lot. No. Honestly. You just aren't all that good, and I'm being polite.

 

[Mitspa]

Someone worth paying for the service or product.

Basic marketing 101

"What the market will bear." First axiom of marketing 101.

Broken records don't sell.

I'm writing a novel. It has to be good enough to be published. If I fail getting it published, it's because I'm not good enough. For some strange reason, even at 65 years old, you automatically assume if you make it, it is worth a lot. No. Honestly. You just aren't all that good, and I'm being polite.

Does the scripture "they will make merchandise of you all" ring a bell?
Or you cannot serve two masters...you cannot serve God and mammon

 

[Yet]

Does the scripture "they will make merchandise of you all" ring a bell?
Or you cannot serve two masters...you cannot serve God and mammon

How about Paul in Acts 20 telling the leaders to work secular jobs, as he did, so they could take care of the poor. I've never heard that message from any pulpit....I wonder why! You'd be surprised how much NT scripture the pulpiteers never bring up. Reason? It all counters their money making agenda. Oops!! Did I say that? Perish the thought! Perish the thought!

 

[Gr8grace]

How about Paul in Acts 20 telling the leaders to work secular jobs, as he did, so they could take care of the poor. I've never heard that message from any pulpit....I wonder why! You'd be surprised how much NT scripture the pulpiteers never bring up. Reason? It all counters their money making agenda. Oops!! Did I say that? Perish the thought! Perish the thought!

Do you know why Paul brought up the gift that the Philippians gave him? Their gift to him was so large that he could quit working and devote all his time to the ministry.

While I agree with you the "dog and Pony show" that goes on in most buildings. There are some pastors out there that operate in their gift and teach according to the Word.

Don't give up, our search was a long one to find a doctrinal ministry.

Or do you really believe that one can't find a doctrinal church?

 

[Mitspa]

Do you know why Paul brought up the gift that the Philippians gave him? Their gift to him was so large that he could quit working and devote all his time to the ministry.

While I agree with you the "dog and Pony show" that goes on in most buildings. There are some pastors out there that operate in their gift and teach according to the Word.

Don't give up, our search was a long one to find a doctrinal ministry.

Or do you really believe that one can't find a doctrinal church?

Im trying to remember the gift you mentioned here...Its a honest post, but I don't recall Paul saying he would quite working to support himself? In fact that sounds contrary to his message throughout his epistles.

Ac 20:34 Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me.

1Co 4:12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:

 

[just-me]

The main question to you is this. If every member of the body of Christ is to minister in turn, who gets the pay check? Don't lay tradition on me. Lay scripture on me. The Greek for honor means honor, not money. So don't go there please!

Very good thread for contemplation and discernment!
"And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give." Matthew 10:7-8

I preached a revival once and received and offering. The next Sunday I put it back in the offering plate when it was passed. some people saw me do that and got disgusted with me. I have never been a pastor (elected once) but declined.

"Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk." Acts 3:6

The old saying lives on. "The best things in life are free."

 

[Yet]

The itenerent preachers had a right to support. But it was to be the givers idea, not the receivers. Freely give. Jesus never took up an offering let alone tithes. Folks willingly helped Him. Their idea! No begging or threatening going on like they do today.

 

[Yet]

All of that posturing and you never actually addressed my question. Let's try this again:

Hebrews chapter 7 verse 8

And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

We know that the Levitical priests are the men that die who received tithes, but Who is the He that lives Who receives them now and how does He receive them?

Come on. Be honest. It won't hurt.[/QUOTE

I let the folks marinade in the word. When I get 6 people jumping at once I draw back and let them reason through it.

You accuse me of being dishonest. Hmmm! Should I even dignify your arrogant attack...I will. The verse you pulled is out of context. Preachers do that all day long ...for fun and financial profit. Read the whole chapter. Vs.5 ...the sons of Levi receive the office of the priesthood have a commandment to take tithes.....
Your verse is in that context. Vs.18 ..there is a disannuling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

Everone knows He nailed the OT commands to the cross and brought in a new covenant with better promises.

Now my suggestion to you is try being honest...it may hurt at first but then the (whole) truth and nothing but the truth will set you free. But if you are a wolf on the demanding end of tithing, it will not end well with you. Robbing the poor and widows is not good...according to God's word. Pay day is coming!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Since we're all priests I tithe myself. With my right hand I hand my left hand the tithe behind my back, so that my right hand doesn't know what my left hand is doing.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

I ministered in many church buildings for twenty-four (24) years. I never once was salaried, nor paid for preaching. Nor did I request or requirement.

i, like YET, take to heart the words of Paul to the religious leaders in Acts 20:33-35. Those words were written for our admonition, not so we could ignore them.

 

[coby]

The NT gives us a beautiful picture of the open meeting assembly. Paul lays the ground work in 1Cor. 12 and 14, Ephesians 4, and Romans 12 for the MO of the body of Christ. No one telling another 'we have no need of you' like exists today.

In the first century, they 'discerned the body of Christ' aright! It was Jesus operating through all the folks!

So if every member is a functioning vessel, who gets the salary? Please take note when you read those chapters that the executive 'pastor' is missing. Maybe he went on a much needed vacation! That could be true if he was mentioned anywhere else in the word. He is not!

Epehesians 4 is speaking clearly of the empowering Christ and His spiritual gifts He's given unto all men. Look at the Greek, and those functions are singular. But does that mean that there is only one apostle, one prophet, one evangelist, one teacher, one poimen/shepherd, pastor? Of course not. It's pointing to the Holy Spirit that imparts those functions to different individuals at different moments in the context of the participatory meeting. Some maintain said functions for certain tasks such as evangelism, etc..

In light of the scriptures that describe the assembly of the saints and their open spiritual functions, '2 or 3 at a time, everything done decently and in order', I submit that most Christians, out of ignorance of the word, are indeed 'forsaking the assembling of themselves together', not forsaking getting together but forsaking the way we are to get together. How we function once we are together.

Right is is right and wrong is wrong and the 'body of Christ' has been lulled to sleep by wrong and we think it's 'having church'.

I have rattled on....you know me by now. The main question to you is this. If every member of the body of Christ is to minister in turn, who gets the pay check? Don't lay tradition on me. Lay scripture on me. The Greek for honor means honor, not money. So don't go there please!

Which pay check? We pay off the debts together, as anyone pleases, nothing or something. The pastor has it on his name though and if everyone would refuse he could come up with it.
Ex drugaddicts and homeless people don't have so much money that anyone gets a paycheck. They got rid of their debt though miraculously.

 

[ember]

another revival thread!

show me the money!!!

 

[coby]

I ministered in many church buildings for twenty-four (24) years. I never once was salaried, nor paid for preaching. Nor did I request or requirement.

i, like YET, take to heart the words of Paul to the religious leaders in Acts 20:33-35. Those words were written for our admonition, not so we could ignore them.

Then where did you live from? Did you minister full time? Also a job and a family?

 

[notuptome]

1Ti 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
1Ti 5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

1Ti 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
1Ti 5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Paul also quotes that same again in 1 Cr 9:9 where he goes into his own reward there in verse 9:18

Where he says,

1 Cr 9:18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

And he also speaks of each man shall recieve his reward according to his labour in 1 Cr 3:6-8

As in others things as well that of the Lord is ones rerward

Col 3:25 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.