If every member is ministering, who gets the paycheck?
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Paul was supported by the free will offerings of those to whom he ministered the word. Sometimes he was embarrassed at their generosity because they were in poverty yet gave generously to feed and care for him. Paul never asked for money but God saw that he had what he needed.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Just to that Paul, and Pauls words I would comment
Paul speaking as an apostle mentions leading about a wife as a minister
1 Cr 9:3 Mine answer to them that do examine me is this,
1 Cr 9:4 Have we not power to eat and to drink?
1 Cr 9:5Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles,
and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
1 Cr 9:6 Or I only and Barnabas,
have not we power to forbear working?
1 Cr 9:7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock,and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
1 Cr 9:8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
1 Cr 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care foroxen?
1 Cr 9:10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that hethat thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
1 Cr 9:11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
1 Cr 9:12 If others be partakers of this power over you,are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
1 Cr 9:13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
1 Cr 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
1 Cr 9:15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: forit were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.
1 Cr 9:16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
1 Cr 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
1 Cr 9:18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.
Paul mentions working night and day labouring as well
1 Thes 2:9 For ye remember, brethren, our labour and travail: for labouring night and day, because we would not be chargeable unto any of you, we preached unto you the gospel of God.
And in their second letter
2 Thes 3:7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;
2 Thes 3:8 Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you:
Heres the power of 1 Cr 9:22
Thes 3:9 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.
2 Thes 3:10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
Yes, Paul was unmarried 1 Cr 7:8 and a tentmaker (by craft) Acts 18:3
He speaks to their power even in 1 Cr 9:4
Paul writes, asking (again)
1 Cr 9:4 Have we not power to eat and to drink?
1 Cr 9:5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
1 Cr 9:6 Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working?
1 Cr 9:12a If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather?
Ofcourse.
Agreeing with what he said in 2 Thes 3:9 concerning such power, saying,
2 Thes 3:9 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.
And so we see the same in 1 Cr 9:12b as Paul continues concerning this power
1 Cr 9:12b Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
Even though in 1 Cr 9:14 he writes the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
Paul on the otherhand could still say,
1 Cr 9:15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.
He gloried in that, And again,
2 Thes 3:9 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.
Here also where Paul said in Acts to those at Ephesus
Acts 20:33 I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel.
Acts 20:34 Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me.
Acts 20:35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.
So it shows Paul labouring with his own hands.
2Thes 3:8 Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you:
2Thes 3:10 For even when we were with you (in person), this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
2 Thes 3:11 For we hear (being away now) that there are some which walk among you disorderly, (doing what?) working not at all, but are busybodies.
2 Thes 3:12 Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread. (1 Thes 4:11, he told them before as well)
But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing.
And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
And he also says this also concerning ones labor
Ephes 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
Paul speaking as an apostle mentions leading about a wife as a minister
1 Cr 9:3 Mine answer to them that do examine me is this,
1 Cr 9:4 Have we not power to eat and to drink?
1 Cr 9:5Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles,
and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
1 Cr 9:6 Or I only and Barnabas,
have not we power to forbear working?
1 Cr 9:7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock,and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
1 Cr 9:8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
1 Cr 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care foroxen?
1 Cr 9:10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that hethat thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
1 Cr 9:11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
1 Cr 9:12 If others be partakers of this power over you,are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
1 Cr 9:13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
1 Cr 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
1 Cr 9:15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: forit were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.
1 Cr 9:16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
1 Cr 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
1 Cr 9:18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.
Paul mentions working night and day labouring as well
1 Thes 2:9 For ye remember, brethren, our labour and travail: for labouring night and day, because we would not be chargeable unto any of you, we preached unto you the gospel of God.
And in their second letter
2 Thes 3:7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;
2 Thes 3:8 Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you:
Heres the power of 1 Cr 9:22
Thes 3:9 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.
2 Thes 3:10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
Yes, Paul was unmarried 1 Cr 7:8 and a tentmaker (by craft) Acts 18:3
He speaks to their power even in 1 Cr 9:4
Paul writes, asking (again)
1 Cr 9:4 Have we not power to eat and to drink?
1 Cr 9:5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
1 Cr 9:6 Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working?
1 Cr 9:12a If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather?
Ofcourse.
Agreeing with what he said in 2 Thes 3:9 concerning such power, saying,
2 Thes 3:9 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.
And so we see the same in 1 Cr 9:12b as Paul continues concerning this power
1 Cr 9:12b Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
Even though in 1 Cr 9:14 he writes the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
Paul on the otherhand could still say,
1 Cr 9:15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.
He gloried in that, And again,
2 Thes 3:9 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.
Here also where Paul said in Acts to those at Ephesus
Acts 20:33 I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel.
Acts 20:34 Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me.
Acts 20:35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.
So it shows Paul labouring with his own hands.
2Thes 3:8 Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you:
2Thes 3:10 For even when we were with you (in person), this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
2 Thes 3:11 For we hear (being away now) that there are some which walk among you disorderly, (doing what?) working not at all, but are busybodies.
2 Thes 3:12 Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread. (1 Thes 4:11, he told them before as well)
But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing.
And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
And he also says this also concerning ones labor
Ephes 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
I lived on the East Coast, the assemblies I ministered at were many, spanning a distance from Beaufort, SC to Grantsville, MD. I paid my own way through wages earned in a Construction job at first, then through my wages with a Paving Company.
I ministered whenever funds were available, traveled ng to Berkley Springs, WV six (6) times a year, to Grantsville, MD six (6) times a year, the many other church s were whenever I received a call from Pastors to minister,... which was quite often. I was at my home Church around two months per year.
I ministered whenever funds were available, traveled ng to Berkley Springs, WV six (6) times a year, to Grantsville, MD six (6) times a year, the many other church s were whenever I received a call from Pastors to minister,... which was quite often. I was at my home Church around two months per year.
And you know, in Acts 20:7 it shows Paul preaching to midnight on the first of the week. I dont think I have ever seen that kind of preaching in any a man who has his days free to prepare for something like that.
Might not be a good idea seeing someone falling out the window as Paul went on and on, so length of preaching is not always a plus, but I still cant help wanting to be there.
Depends on the preacher though, some you cant wait to leave off of and others you wish they would never shut up.
Might not be a good idea seeing someone falling out the window as Paul went on and on, so length of preaching is not always a plus, but I still cant help wanting to be there.
Depends on the preacher though, some you cant wait to leave off of and others you wish they would never shut up.
Okay, I believe I found your reference, do you mean 2 Cr 8 and/or 9?
Because I did not find feeding and caring for Paul if either of these here
2Cor.8
[1] Moreover, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia;
[2] How that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality.
[3] For to their power, I bear record, yea, and beyond their power they were willing of themselves;
[4] Praying us with much intreaty that we would receive the gift, and take upon us the fellowship of the ministering to the saints.
[5] And this they did, not as we hoped, but first gave their own selves to the Lord, and unto us by the will of God.
[6] Insomuch that we desired Titus, that as he had begun, so he would also finish in you the same grace also.
[7] Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also.
[8] I speak not by commandment, but by occasion of the forwardness of others, and to prove the sincerity of your love.
[9] For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.
[10] And herein I give my advice: for this is expedient for you, who have begun before, not only to do, but also to be forward a year ago.
[11] Now therefore perform the doing of it; that as there was a readiness to will, so there may be a performance also out of that which ye have.
[12] For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.
[13] For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:
[14] But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality:
[15] As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack.
[16] But thanks be to God, which put the same earnest care into the heart of Titus for you.
[17] For indeed he accepted the exhortation; but being more forward, of his own accord he went unto you.
[18] And we have sent with him the brother, whose praise is in the gospel throughout all the churches;
[19] And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:
[20] Avoiding this, that no man should blame us in this abundance which is administered by us:
[21] Providing for honest things, not only in the sight of the Lord, but also in the sight of men.
[22] And we have sent with them our brother, whom we have oftentimes proved diligent in many things, but now much more diligent, upon the great confidence which I have in you.
[23] Whether any do inquire of Titus, he is my partner and fellowhelper concerning you: or our brethren be inquired of, they are the messengers of the churches, and the glory of Christ.
[24] Wherefore shew ye to them, and before the churches, the proof of your love, and of our boasting on your behalf.
2Cor.9
[1] For as touching the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you:
[2] For I know the forwardness of your mind, for which I boast of you to them of Macedonia, that Achaia was ready a year ago; and your zeal hath provoked very many.
[3] Yet have I sent the brethren, lest our boasting of you should be in vain in this behalf; that, as I said, ye may be ready:
[4] Lest haply if they of Macedonia come with me, and find you unprepared, we (that we say not, ye) should be ashamed in this same confident boasting.
[5] Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness.
[6] But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
[7] Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
[8] And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
[9] (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
[10] Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness
[11] Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.
[12] For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;
[13] Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men;
[14] And by their prayer for you, which long after you for the exceeding grace of God in you.
[15] Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.
This was the same church he wrote 1 Cr 9:15 to also.
Because I did not find feeding and caring for Paul if either of these here
2Cor.8
[1] Moreover, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia;
[2] How that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality.
[3] For to their power, I bear record, yea, and beyond their power they were willing of themselves;
[4] Praying us with much intreaty that we would receive the gift, and take upon us the fellowship of the ministering to the saints.
[5] And this they did, not as we hoped, but first gave their own selves to the Lord, and unto us by the will of God.
[6] Insomuch that we desired Titus, that as he had begun, so he would also finish in you the same grace also.
[7] Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also.
[8] I speak not by commandment, but by occasion of the forwardness of others, and to prove the sincerity of your love.
[9] For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.
[10] And herein I give my advice: for this is expedient for you, who have begun before, not only to do, but also to be forward a year ago.
[11] Now therefore perform the doing of it; that as there was a readiness to will, so there may be a performance also out of that which ye have.
[12] For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.
[13] For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:
[14] But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality:
[15] As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack.
[16] But thanks be to God, which put the same earnest care into the heart of Titus for you.
[17] For indeed he accepted the exhortation; but being more forward, of his own accord he went unto you.
[18] And we have sent with him the brother, whose praise is in the gospel throughout all the churches;
[19] And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:
[20] Avoiding this, that no man should blame us in this abundance which is administered by us:
[21] Providing for honest things, not only in the sight of the Lord, but also in the sight of men.
[22] And we have sent with them our brother, whom we have oftentimes proved diligent in many things, but now much more diligent, upon the great confidence which I have in you.
[23] Whether any do inquire of Titus, he is my partner and fellowhelper concerning you: or our brethren be inquired of, they are the messengers of the churches, and the glory of Christ.
[24] Wherefore shew ye to them, and before the churches, the proof of your love, and of our boasting on your behalf.
2Cor.9
[1] For as touching the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you:
[2] For I know the forwardness of your mind, for which I boast of you to them of Macedonia, that Achaia was ready a year ago; and your zeal hath provoked very many.
[3] Yet have I sent the brethren, lest our boasting of you should be in vain in this behalf; that, as I said, ye may be ready:
[4] Lest haply if they of Macedonia come with me, and find you unprepared, we (that we say not, ye) should be ashamed in this same confident boasting.
[5] Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness.
[6] But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
[7] Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
[8] And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
[9] (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
[10] Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness
[11] Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.
[12] For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;
[13] Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men;
[14] And by their prayer for you, which long after you for the exceeding grace of God in you.
[15] Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.
This was the same church he wrote 1 Cr 9:15 to also.
C
They worked a bit harder then. Smith Wigglesworth said: those preachers nowadays are so lazy. Well we have one in Holland. He's old and he goes on and on, got a heart attack because he did nothing else. He was then almost the only one in the whole country that everyone went to to get prayer when they were sick. Now the regular believers are stepping out, much better for him. I think it's weird to have extremely high standards for pastors and evangelists and pay them nothing, yet the rest sits in the pew and have a good income with their part time job. If we want revival everyone has to work that hard.
The grace given to Paul is what laboured more then all of them, not him.
There are no preachers who preach this and mean this for themselves (but for Paul only)
1 Cr 9:15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.
So probably there are some pew sitters who might bring this up curious as to where such preachers might be.
Paul did labour more then all of them, and he did so without more green but with more grace.
It wouldnt be a matter of expecting a man, it would be a matter of beholding such a man and the grace of God in him to do the same. Not all men but a man of that kind of grace.
To see him preach that, not just about Paul (in history) but about himself (in real time)
There are no preachers who preach this and mean this for themselves (but for Paul only)
1 Cr 9:15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.
So probably there are some pew sitters who might bring this up curious as to where such preachers might be.
Paul did labour more then all of them, and he did so without more green but with more grace.
It wouldnt be a matter of expecting a man, it would be a matter of beholding such a man and the grace of God in him to do the same. Not all men but a man of that kind of grace.
To see him preach that, not just about Paul (in history) but about himself (in real time)
