If we're saved by faith

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,890
26,050
113
#21
"Does Mark 16:16 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?" As with any single verse or passage, we discern what it teaches through careful consideration of the language and context of the verse. We also filter it through what we know the Bible teaches elsewhere on the subject. In the case of baptism and salvation, the Bible is clear that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works of any kind, including baptism (Ephesians 2:8-9). Any interpretation which comes to the conclusion that baptism, or any other act, is necessary for salvation is a faulty interpretation.

Regarding Mark 16:16, it is important to remember that there are some textual problems with Mark chapter 16, verses 9-20. There is some question as to whether these verses were originally part of the Gospel of Mark or whether they were added later by a scribe. As a result, it is best not to base a key doctrine on anything from Mark 16:9-20, such as snake handling, unless it is also supported by other passages of Scripture.

Assuming that verse 16 is original to Mark, does it teach that baptism is required for salvation? The short answer is, no, it does not. In order to make it teach that baptism is required for salvation, one must go beyond what the verse actually says. What this verse does teach is that belief is necessary for salvation, which is consistent with the countless verses where only belief is mentioned (e.g., John 3:18; John 5:24; John 12:44; John 20:31; 1 John 5:13).“He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned” (Mark 16:16). This verse is composed of two basic statements.

1—He who believes and is baptized will be saved.

2—He who does not believe will be condemned.

While this verse tells us something about believers who have been baptized (they are saved), it does not say anything about believers who have not been baptized. In order for this verse to teach that baptism is necessary for salvation , a third statement would be necessary, viz., “He who believes and is not baptized will be condemned” or “He who is not baptized will be condemned.” But, of course, neither of these statements is found in the verse.

Consider this example: "Whoever believes and lives in Kansas will be saved, but those that do not believe are condemned." This statement is strictly true; Kansans who believe in Jesus will be saved. However, to say that only those believers who live in Kansas are saved is an illogical and false assumption. The statement does not say a believer must live in Kansas in order to go to heaven.

Similarly, Mark 16:16 does not say a believer must be baptized. The verse states a fact about baptized believers (they will be saved), but it says exactly nothing about believers who have not been baptized. There may be believers who do not dwell in Kansas, yet they are still saved; and there may be believers who have not been baptized, yet they, too, are still saved.

The one specific condition required for salvation is stated in the second part of Mark 16:16: “Whoever does not believe will be condemned.” In essence, Jesus has given both the positive condition of belief (whoever believes will be saved) and the negative condition of unbelief (whoever does not believe will be condemned).

Therefore, we can say with absolute certainty that belief is the requirement for salvation. More importantly, we see this condition restated positively and negatively throughout Scripture (John 3:16; John 3:18; John 3:36; John 5:24; John 6:53-54; John 8:24; Acts 16:31).

Jesus mentions a condition related to salvation (baptism) in Mark 16:16. But a related condition should not be confused with a requirement. For example, having a fever is related to being ill, but a fever is not required for illness to be present. Nowhere in the Bible do we find a statement such as “whoever is not baptized will be condemned.” Therefore, we cannot say that baptism is necessary for salvation based on Mark 16:16 or any other verse.

Does Mark 16:16 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation? No, it does not. It clearly establishes that belief is required for salvation, but it does not prove or disprove the idea of baptism being a requirement. How can we know, then, if one must be baptized in order to be saved? We must look to the full counsel of God’s Word.

Here is a summary of the evidence:

1—The Bible is clear that we are saved by faith alone. Abraham was saved by faith, and we are saved by faith (Romans 4:1-25; Galatians 3:6-22).

2—Throughout the Bible, in every dispensation, people have been saved without being baptized. Every believer in the Old Testament (e.g., Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon) was saved but not baptized. The thief on the cross was saved but not baptized. Cornelius was saved before he was baptized (Acts 10:44-46).

3—Baptism is a testimony of our faith and a public declaration that we believe in Jesus Christ. The Scriptures tell us that we have eternal life the moment we believe (John 5:24), and belief always comes before being baptized. Baptism does not save us any more than walking an aisle or saying a prayer saves us. We are saved when we believe.

4—The Bible never says that if one is not baptized then he is not saved.

5—If baptism were required for salvation, then no one could be saved without another party being present. Someone must be there to baptize a person before he can be saved. This effectively limits who can be saved and when he can be saved. The consequences of this doctrine, when carried to a logical conclusion, are devastating. For example, a soldier who believes on the battlefield but is killed before he can be baptized would go to hell.

6—Throughout the Bible we see that at the point of faith a believer possesses all the promises and blessings of salvation (John 1:12; 3:16; 5:24; 6:47; 20:31; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31). When one believes, he has eternal life, does not come under judgment, and has passed from death into life (John 5:24)—all before he or she is baptized.

If you believe in baptismal regeneration, you would do well to prayerfully consider whom or what you are really putting your trust in. Is your faith in a physical act (being baptized) or in the finished work of Christ on the cross? Whom or what are you trusting for salvation? Is it the shadow (baptism) or the substance (Jesus Christ)? Our faith must rest in Christ alone. “We have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace” (Ephesians 1:7).
https://www.gotquestions.org/baptism-Mark-16-16.html
 
Sep 14, 2017
900
23
0
#22
ASV
38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

My bad, it was the America’s standard. And it does say so in the greek. The word ye is not there. Ye is the translation of the word used.

Repent - 2nd person plural.

Baptize. Third person singular.

he told everyone to repent

He only told select people to be baptized. He did not tell everyone to repent and be baptized.
New International Version
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

New Living Translation
Peter replied, "Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

English Standard Version
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Berean Study Bible
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
And Peter says to them, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

New American Standard Bible
Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The ASV has been revised twice: once in 1977, & the other in 1995.
Why would you bother using the 1st, written in 1901?

Methinks there's an agenda somewheres.
 
Sep 14, 2017
900
23
0
#23
REPENT

Thayer's Greek Lexicon

STRONGS NT 3340: μετανοέω

μετανοέω, μετάνω; future μετανοήσω; 1 aorist μετενόησα; from (Antiphon), Xenophondown; the Sept. several times for נִחַם; to change one's mind, i. e. to repent (to feel sorry that one has done this or that, Jonah 3:9), of having offended someone, Luke 17:3f; with ἐπίτίνι added (the dative of the wrong, Hebrew עַל, Amos 7:3; Joel 2:13; Jonah 3:10; Jonah 4:2), of (on account of) something (so Latinme paenitet alicujus rei), 2 Corinthians 12:21; used especially of those who, conscious of their sins and with manifest tokens of sorrow, are intent; on obtaining God's pardon; to repent (Latinpaenitentiam agere): μετανοῶἐνσάκκῳκαίσποδῷ, clothed in sackcloth and besprinkled with ashes, Matthew 11:21; Luke 10:13. to change one's mind for the better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins: Matthew 3:2; Matthew 4:17; Mark 1:15 (cf. Matthew 3:6ἐξομολογούμενοιτάςἁμαρτίαςαὐτῶν; Matthew 3:8 and Luke 3:8καρπούςἀξίουςτῆςμετανοίας, i. e. conduct worthy of a heart changed and abhorring sin); (Matthew 11:20; Mark 6:12); Luke 13:3, 5; Luke 15:7, 10; Luke 16:30; Acts 2:38; Acts 3:19; Acts 17:30; Revelation 2:5, 16; Revelation 3:3, 19; on the phrase μετανοεῖνεἰςτόκήρυγματίνος, Matthew 12:41 and Luke 11:32, see εἰς, B. II. 2 d.; (Winer's Grammar, 397 (371)). Since τόμετανοεῖν expresses mental direction, the termini from which and to which may be specified: ἀπότῆςκακίας, to withdraw or turn one's soul from, etc. (cf. Winers Grammar, 622 (577); especially Buttmann, 322 (277)), Acts 8:22; ἐκτίνος, Revelation 2:21; Revelation 9:20; Revelation 16:11 (see ἐκ, I. 6; (cf. Buttmann, 327 (281), and Winer's Grammar, as above)); μετανοεῖνκαίἐπιστρέφεινἐπίτόνΘεόν, Acts 26:20; followed by an infinitive indicating purpose (Winer's Grammar, 318 (298)), Revelation 16:9. (Synonym: see μεταμέλομαι.)

Contextual scripture:
Job 42:6
therefore I despise myself, and repent in dust and ashes.”

Jeremiah 31:19
For after I turned back, I repented; And after I was instructed, I smote on my thigh; I was ashamed and also humiliated Because I bore the reproach of my youth.'

2 Corinthians 7:
9I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to the point of repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to the will of God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us. 10For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.11For behold what earnestness this very thing, this godly sorrow, has produced in you: what vindication of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what longing, what zeal, what avenging of wrong! In everything you demonstrated yourselves to be innocent in the matter.

I think it's shameful & deceitful to make repent something that God never intended it to be.

Dirty nasty eisegesis!
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,313
16,301
113
69
Tennessee
#24
why does the Bible say we have to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. Acts 2:38
Baptism is not a requirement for salvation but rather a public act proclaiming your salvation in Jesus dying for your sins and becoming a new creation in Christ.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
#25
Well in technicality one doesn't have to be water baptized for it is better to be baptized of the spirit,but I myself believe both spirit and water baptism are "Best" because both represent a form of "accepting of Jesus" Water baptism represents us being baptized into Jesus's death and thereby receiving remission of sins,where as spirit acceptance represents that you "wholly believe" humbly and sincerely that Jesus can save your soul and did all the bible says he did.
both spirit and water baptism
Anyone wanting the gift of the Holy Spirit cannot ignore Acts 2:38 - "and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit".

Water baptism is our promise of the Holy Spirit, Peter is clear on this.
 
Apr 15, 2017
2,867
653
113
#27
Baptism is not a requirement for salvation but rather a public act proclaiming your salvation in Jesus dying for your sins and becoming a new creation in Christ.
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
 
Dec 9, 2011
13,727
1,725
113
#28
Why then does Peter make a big deal out Noah and his family being saved by water in 1Peter 3:20?
Being saved physically Is not the same as being saved Spiritually,I'm sure you agree that this does not need to be discussed unless you are going to make a case for being saved physically and Spiritually are the same.:)
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#29
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us
Because their baptism called Mikvah was a cleansing from impurity. It's a ritual of cleansing to be able to participate again in the synagogues activities. Women did this monthly, but men also, for different reasons. It's was called being born again.

Its why Jesus questioned Nicodemus who was a Pharisee, and teacher in Israel why he didn't understand what Jesus meant when he said they must be born again. Born of water. Born of Spirit now.

They also did Mikvah if they had stopped going to synagogue or rebelled in some way, then repented. They went through Mikvah to be cleansed and free again.
 
Last edited:

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#30
Anyone wanting the gift of the Holy Spirit cannot ignore Acts 2:38 - "and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit".

Water baptism is our promise of the Holy Spirit, Peter is clear on this.
We aren't Jews for one thing. But, if you have the desire to be baptized and believe you should, then for your own conscience, it would be best to do so.

I was confused for a time because I ran into those that said I had to be baptized in the name of Jesus. So I did again, but my first baptism was a sprinkling in the Reformed church, the church of my husbands parents. And it felt like rain on me. Newly born again, I loved everything, even saying the creed every morning.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
#32
Just a thought here----
What if a person could not be baptized because of medical reasons?
If baptism is necessary for salvation, that person has no chance for eternal life.
Think about that for a moment.
Just a thought here-----
Does a person's circumstance bear any weight to the Word of God? If God is not a respecter of person, is He a respecter of situation? Does our peculiar situation change what is required by God?
Think about that for a moment.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
#33
We aren't Jews for one thing. But, if you have the desire to be baptized and believe you should, then for your own conscience, it would be best to do so.

I was confused for a time because I ran into those that said I had to be baptized in the name of Jesus. So I did again, but my first baptism was a sprinkling in the Reformed church, the church of my husbands parents. And it felt like rain on me. Newly born again, I loved everything, even saying the creed every morning.
We aren't Jews for one thing.
I don't see what this has to do with anything. "This promise is to you. It is for your children and for the people who are far away. It is for everyone the Lord our God has called." Acts 2:39

Baptism is not an option to be done to satisfy a conscience but for the forgiveness of sins.
 
Nov 26, 2012
3,095
1,050
113
#34
Faith in what do you think saves you? If you believe that the shedding of blood forgives sins, then you will remain in your sins without the shedding of blood. Believing that Christ is the Son of the Most High and that His blood was shed for your sins, does what? It allows you to accept that your sins are forever forgiven, which does what? Eliminates guilt! The knowledge of good and evil causes guilt. Guilt gone, restored to God. Once you are at this point you are saved but we are to become followers of Christ instead of followers of our flesh. What other event did we submerge from water to start life? Birth. Baptism is a symbol of beginning your new life following the Spirit. Rebirth!
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
#35
Being saved physically Is not the same as being saved Spiritually,I'm sure you agree that this does not need to be discussed unless you are going to make a case for being saved physically and Spiritually are the same.:)
Being saved physically Is not the same as being saved Spiritually
Okay...but Peter states "which now saves us". This saving is spiritual. You agree?
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#36
I don't see what this has to do with anything. "This promise is to you. It is for your children and for the people who are far away. It is for everyone the Lord our God has called." Acts 2:39

Baptism is not an option to be done to satisfy a conscience but for the forgiveness of sins.
Thats why I said to do it for your conscience sake. You would be sinning against it if you didn't. Many churches teach water baptism. I wanted it.

We need to understand Jewish thought. It would help us greatly to separate tradition from being birthed into the body of Jesus, Messiah.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
#37
Thats why I said to do it for your conscience sake. You would be sinning against it if you didn't. Many churches teach water baptism. I wanted it.

We need to understand Jewish thought. It would help us greatly to separate tradition from being birthed into the body of Jesus, Messiah.
Conscience or not, baptism is for the forgiveness of sins.

Your clear conscience does not offer forgiveness of sins.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#38
Conscience or not, baptism is for the forgiveness of sins.

Your clear conscience does not offer forgiveness of sins.
Well, I differ. The blood of Jesus is our salvation, and new life in Him is His resurrection. He is our foundation.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
#39
Well, I differ. The blood of Jesus is our salvation, and new life in Him is His resurrection. He is our foundation.
If He truly is your foundation I suggest you listen to His words.

"Who ever believes and is baptized will be saved, whoever does not believe will be condemned." Mark 16:16