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A
No. That doesn't fit the biblical model. God didn't send Nineveh to Jonah, for example, but the other way around. They are coming for the $$$ and "free" benefits but those won't be available for anyone like they are today within twenty years. The skyrocketing national debt and interest that has to be paid each year will soon dominate the federal budget pushing out the welfare and entitlements Americans have become used to.
When that happens, it's going to get very ugly from a socio-economic perspective. Immigration is a primary driver as are other factors which include "free" trade, monopoly capitalism, costly U.S. imperialism, costly liberal socialism, the decline of the family (resulting in material increases in welfare, etc...), etc...
The colossal systemic failure occurring in the U.S. is epic across the bard. It's sweeping in scope and only ends in poverty, social upheaval, deep immorality, etc...
It happens incrementally over time and it's enablers are ignorance, deception, and slothfulness.
When that happens, it's going to get very ugly from a socio-economic perspective. Immigration is a primary driver as are other factors which include "free" trade, monopoly capitalism, costly U.S. imperialism, costly liberal socialism, the decline of the family (resulting in material increases in welfare, etc...), etc...
The colossal systemic failure occurring in the U.S. is epic across the bard. It's sweeping in scope and only ends in poverty, social upheaval, deep immorality, etc...
It happens incrementally over time and it's enablers are ignorance, deception, and slothfulness.
pardon me for directly repeating exactly what you posted in order to establish that your accusation of "libel" is a patently false lie.
i was unaware that establishing the truth is "wicked"
i guess let's get back to scaring up fear, mistrust and hostility towards a class of people, and forget all about your open scorn for Christ's commandments.
hunky dory.
(why isn't this in the "news" section?)
in the future please treat the word of God with more respect.
i was unaware that establishing the truth is "wicked"
i guess let's get back to scaring up fear, mistrust and hostility towards a class of people, and forget all about your open scorn for Christ's commandments.
hunky dory.
(why isn't this in the "news" section?)
in the future please treat the word of God with more respect.
you mean like Onesimus?
For this perhaps is why he was parted from you for a while, that you might have him back forever, no longer as a bondservant but more than a bondservant, as a beloved brother—especially to me, but how much more to you, both in the flesh and in the Lord.
(Philemon 1:14-15)
Middle America is overwhelmingly Catholic. like, 70% or greater by polls. it is interesting that here they are on the doorstep of a largely Protestant nation, even coming up from the South into the "Bible Belt"
For this perhaps is why he was parted from you for a while, that you might have him back forever, no longer as a bondservant but more than a bondservant, as a beloved brother—especially to me, but how much more to you, both in the flesh and in the Lord.
(Philemon 1:14-15)
Middle America is overwhelmingly Catholic. like, 70% or greater by polls. it is interesting that here they are on the doorstep of a largely Protestant nation, even coming up from the South into the "Bible Belt"
This is a blatant, personal attack against a brother in Christ because you disagree with his position that illegal (criminal) aliens, who flout our law, should be prosecuted and deported. Show us where he said he hated someone. It is a despicable tactic to label someone in that fashion. Further, your'e pride has refused to let the matter just pass, but continue to keep your attacks coming. Shame on you.
F
As a naturalized citizen, originally an immigrant, I remember what sacrifices my father made to bring us here. How he, having an elevated Engineering position in the communist country of our origin, swept floors for $1/hr (back in the mid 60's, but still), while going to school to learn english. Yes, we came here legally. We waited. We were pursued by the KGB (although our country of origin wasn't Russia). We ran from country to country, waiting for our turn. It came and here I am now for 50 years. Grateful, and a die hard patriot.
I lived in Miami during the Mariel boatlift. It wasn't fun and seriously curbed everyone's life for a while because of all the crime that came with it. Miami was never the same after that, and not in a good way either.
Those who come here illegally, even if they are salt of the earth, wonderful people, hard working, wanting better for their families (which is thoroughly understandable) are still, entering illegally. Illegally being the operative word.
I have great compassion, but I still wouldn't steal because I was hungry. It's illegal. Period.
And that's my strong stand.
Guess I don't have many opinons, now do I?
I lived in Miami during the Mariel boatlift. It wasn't fun and seriously curbed everyone's life for a while because of all the crime that came with it. Miami was never the same after that, and not in a good way either.
Those who come here illegally, even if they are salt of the earth, wonderful people, hard working, wanting better for their families (which is thoroughly understandable) are still, entering illegally. Illegally being the operative word.
I have great compassion, but I still wouldn't steal because I was hungry. It's illegal. Period.
And that's my strong stand.
Guess I don't have many opinons, now do I?
A
Indeed. Great discernment PennEd. And have some positive rep for your courage. Now back to the problem at hand: Examples of Serious Crimes of Illegal Aliens
A
What happened in the UK when mass immigration and modern "progressive" liberalism mixed together?
A new report says the sexual grooming of children by immigrants is now "normal" due to a bizarre combination of the immigrants preying on the children and the liberal establishment turning a blind eye to the predatory crimes against their nation's children because they didn't want to put their government careers in jeopardy by being perceived as "racist.": Child sexual exploitation ‘now normal in parts of Greater Manchester’: report | Society | The Guardian
Video: Child Grooming 'Normal' In Parts Of Manchester
^ How utterly immoral, negligent, and sickening.
A new report says the sexual grooming of children by immigrants is now "normal" due to a bizarre combination of the immigrants preying on the children and the liberal establishment turning a blind eye to the predatory crimes against their nation's children because they didn't want to put their government careers in jeopardy by being perceived as "racist.": Child sexual exploitation ‘now normal in parts of Greater Manchester’: report | Society | The Guardian
Video: Child Grooming 'Normal' In Parts Of Manchester
^ How utterly immoral, negligent, and sickening.
because i am offended by someone treating the command of Christ - to love our neighbors - like it's an antiquated, uneducated, out-of-touch and outdated sentiment not worthy of any respect, you assume i don't think people who cross the border illegally should be deported?
show me where i ever said that...?
you yourself can have a look back at the thread, and see that i never posted any such opinion.
i posted scripture and asked how we can show love to these people, whether they are here legally or not.
AOK also assumed an awful lot about my political position, derided a strawman, and challenged the applicability of scripture to this present & real situation in our lives. i replied with more scripture showing that his dismissal of the commands in Moses' law were unfounded. he replied saying i was "spouting nonsense" and "playing reindeer games" and literally held Christ's words in scorn.
here's the larger problem:
this is not a political news forum. this is a bible discussion forum.
we're not on earth to push and preach the Republican party's agenda. we're here to do the work of God, and to bring Him glory. the command of God is to love our enemies, to feed the poor, to show no partiality to rich or poor, American or Honduran, white or hispanic. our loyalty is to heaven, not the USA, and our treasure is there, not in fiscal economy. when a thief takes our shirt we're to give him our cloak. when the world encourages us to fear, mistrust and hold in contempt a class of people, we're supposed to respond with compassion and charity. blessings should come from our mouths, not curses.
it "does not fit the biblical model" to immerse ourselves in worldly politics, daily repeating godless carnal news about how some class of people is ruining our economy and responsible for every cultural evil imaginable. what's the end result of that? what happens to our hearts when every day we further embitter ourselves, not by any spiritual cause, but entirely earthly, towards a racial & cultural profile? what was the 1st century attitude of the world towards Samaritans, and what was Christ's attitude toward them?
here's it's progressed so far that AOK feels confident calling Christ's command "a crock" - and you feel confident rebuking me for taking offense at this open derision.
if my brother is so entangled in worldly thinking that he can call Christian compassion "a crock" then i have every right, and indeed a duty to rebuke him in God's name. he's playing at politics, not at righteousness, and the fruit of it is crying "libel" when i directly quote his exact words. a lie.
if scripture is not to be applied to this discussion, it's in the wrong section of the forum, and if scripture is not to be applied to our lives, you're in the wrong community.
show me where i ever said that...?
you yourself can have a look back at the thread, and see that i never posted any such opinion.
i posted scripture and asked how we can show love to these people, whether they are here legally or not.
AOK also assumed an awful lot about my political position, derided a strawman, and challenged the applicability of scripture to this present & real situation in our lives. i replied with more scripture showing that his dismissal of the commands in Moses' law were unfounded. he replied saying i was "spouting nonsense" and "playing reindeer games" and literally held Christ's words in scorn.
here's the larger problem:
this is not a political news forum. this is a bible discussion forum.
we're not on earth to push and preach the Republican party's agenda. we're here to do the work of God, and to bring Him glory. the command of God is to love our enemies, to feed the poor, to show no partiality to rich or poor, American or Honduran, white or hispanic. our loyalty is to heaven, not the USA, and our treasure is there, not in fiscal economy. when a thief takes our shirt we're to give him our cloak. when the world encourages us to fear, mistrust and hold in contempt a class of people, we're supposed to respond with compassion and charity. blessings should come from our mouths, not curses.
it "does not fit the biblical model" to immerse ourselves in worldly politics, daily repeating godless carnal news about how some class of people is ruining our economy and responsible for every cultural evil imaginable. what's the end result of that? what happens to our hearts when every day we further embitter ourselves, not by any spiritual cause, but entirely earthly, towards a racial & cultural profile? what was the 1st century attitude of the world towards Samaritans, and what was Christ's attitude toward them?
here's it's progressed so far that AOK feels confident calling Christ's command "a crock" - and you feel confident rebuking me for taking offense at this open derision.
if my brother is so entangled in worldly thinking that he can call Christian compassion "a crock" then i have every right, and indeed a duty to rebuke him in God's name. he's playing at politics, not at righteousness, and the fruit of it is crying "libel" when i directly quote his exact words. a lie.
if scripture is not to be applied to this discussion, it's in the wrong section of the forum, and if scripture is not to be applied to our lives, you're in the wrong community.
I believe everything happen in the world is in God control. Specially for Christian country like America.
Yes Illegal cause problem, but it will not hurt the people of God as long as it depend on God.
Problem will come no matter what if we turn away from the Lord.
About Economy, I blame more for monopoly than illegal.
According to Alberto Rivera, Illegal in America is by design. Jesuit want make America catholic country by bring in south american to america. So blame the system The poor just follow the flow.
What Alberto said seem to confirmed by Article like this bellow
[h=3]CHA-CHING!: Catholic Church Gets Multi-Millions from US ...[/h]www.debbieschlussel.com/.../cha-ching-catholic-church-gets-multi-millio...
The Catholic Church in America has long been a proponent of illegal aliens,
as it has been at the forefront of far-left “liberation theology” (something that faux-conservative Glenn Beck also espouses along with the illegal alien “kids”). And it pays off to purport to care about the poor illegals: it makes you rich! The U.S. government announced it will give the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, Catholic Charities, and the Catholic Legal Immigration Network millions to pay for legal help for the illegal alien kiddies to stay here. But, don’t worry, these Catholic “charities” will [COLOR=#FF6633 !important]take their cut.
Yes, you pay for the lawyers for illegal alien “youths” to fight the other lawyers you pay for (in the U.S. government) who are purporting to fight to deport them. And in the process you get to fund a church that you might not even be a member of. Only in America. I can just hear the imams bumming out that they, too, didn’t get in on the action.
The Obama Administration Santa Clauses are handing out the dough. And don’t forget that the Bush Administration Willy Wonkas lobbied for and signed the law that gave the golden ticket of entry to these illegal alien kids and made it nearly impossible to deport them. (Congress unanimously passed that law.) So, remind me again how [COLOR=#FF6633 !important]Republicans[/COLOR]and Democrats are different? They both screw us.
Federal law requires that custody of the children from non-contiguous states — in other words, those who are not from Mexico or Canada — be transferred from the border patrol to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services within 72 hours.
Yes, that fabulous law the Bushies bragged about lobbying for and passing and for which George W. Bush held a grinning, gushing signing ceremony!
If you are Catholic, you might wanna hold back the next time the collection plate is passed around in church. After all, you already gave in your taxes. And they took the money to help destroy your country slowly and painfully.
You might also like:
Yes Illegal cause problem, but it will not hurt the people of God as long as it depend on God.
Problem will come no matter what if we turn away from the Lord.
About Economy, I blame more for monopoly than illegal.
According to Alberto Rivera, Illegal in America is by design. Jesuit want make America catholic country by bring in south american to america. So blame the system The poor just follow the flow.
What Alberto said seem to confirmed by Article like this bellow
[h=3]CHA-CHING!: Catholic Church Gets Multi-Millions from US ...[/h]www.debbieschlussel.com/.../cha-ching-catholic-church-gets-multi-millio...
The Catholic Church in America has long been a proponent of illegal aliens,
as it has been at the forefront of far-left “liberation theology” (something that faux-conservative Glenn Beck also espouses along with the illegal alien “kids”). And it pays off to purport to care about the poor illegals: it makes you rich! The U.S. government announced it will give the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, Catholic Charities, and the Catholic Legal Immigration Network millions to pay for legal help for the illegal alien kiddies to stay here. But, don’t worry, these Catholic “charities” will [COLOR=#FF6633 !important]take their cut.
Yes, you pay for the lawyers for illegal alien “youths” to fight the other lawyers you pay for (in the U.S. government) who are purporting to fight to deport them. And in the process you get to fund a church that you might not even be a member of. Only in America. I can just hear the imams bumming out that they, too, didn’t get in on the action.
The Obama Administration Santa Clauses are handing out the dough. And don’t forget that the Bush Administration Willy Wonkas lobbied for and signed the law that gave the golden ticket of entry to these illegal alien kids and made it nearly impossible to deport them. (Congress unanimously passed that law.) So, remind me again how [COLOR=#FF6633 !important]Republicans[/COLOR]and Democrats are different? They both screw us.
The Obama Administration announced Tuesday that it will pick up the bill for immigration attorneys who will be assigned to unaccompanied children from Central America and elsewhere who are stopped at the U.S. border. . . . The program starts today and will be funded with $9 million over the next two years. In all, the funds are estimated to be enough to pay for lawyers for more than 2,600 children. . . .
Federal law requires that custody of the children from non-contiguous states — in other words, those who are not from Mexico or Canada — be transferred from the border patrol to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services within 72 hours.
Yes, that fabulous law the Bushies bragged about lobbying for and passing and for which George W. Bush held a grinning, gushing signing ceremony!
But few of those children have the funds to pay for attorneys, and there is no right to public counsel for non-citizens in immigration hearings. The Catholic Church and other advocates for immigrants have urged lawyers to volunteer, and many have done so throughout the country. The $9 million in funding will pay for legal representation for about 1,222 children this year, and the balance in the coming year, spokesman Kenneth Wolfe said Tuesday.
The money will be added to existing [COLOR=#FF6633 !important]grants[/COLOR] for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops and the Virginia-based U.S. Committee for Refugees and Immigrants. Those organizations work with Catholic Charities and the Catholic Legal Immigration Network, on the one hand, and the Immigrant[COLOR=#FF6633 !important]Child[/COLOR] Network, on the other.
Wolfe said those agencies in turn will draw down the money on a first-come, first-come basis as they represent children in immigration proceedings. The cities where the money will be available are Los Angeles, Houston, Miami, Memphis, New Orleans, Phoenix, Dallas and the greater Washington, D.C. area, including Arlington, Va., and Baltimore.
America . . . we pay for our long-term suicide. Thank you, Catholic Church for helping us down that road.The money will be added to existing [COLOR=#FF6633 !important]grants[/COLOR] for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops and the Virginia-based U.S. Committee for Refugees and Immigrants. Those organizations work with Catholic Charities and the Catholic Legal Immigration Network, on the one hand, and the Immigrant[COLOR=#FF6633 !important]Child[/COLOR] Network, on the other.
Wolfe said those agencies in turn will draw down the money on a first-come, first-come basis as they represent children in immigration proceedings. The cities where the money will be available are Los Angeles, Houston, Miami, Memphis, New Orleans, Phoenix, Dallas and the greater Washington, D.C. area, including Arlington, Va., and Baltimore.
If you are Catholic, you might wanna hold back the next time the collection plate is passed around in church. After all, you already gave in your taxes. And they took the money to help destroy your country slowly and painfully.
You might also like:
A
Non-Citizens Are Voting <--James O’Keefe documents the problem in North Carolina, where the Senate race is close.
[video=youtube_share;NMkEgeFkT9k]http://youtu.be/NMkEgeFkT9k[/video]
[video=youtube_share;NMkEgeFkT9k]http://youtu.be/NMkEgeFkT9k[/video]
A
False. I have been applying scripture; only doing so accurately unlike another poster in this discussion. Specifically, I stated:
"First you do it by not pulling verses out of context. Jewish scholar Dr Stephen Steinlight says that the word for lives is literally sojourns or a temporary stay. While the Old Testament does confer rights on immigrants who sojourn with Israel (Deut. 23:3; 24: 14-21: 25:5; 26:10-13), these were still temporary visitors who held residence but were not citizens (Lev. 22:10; Psalm 19:12)
So right away, you're creating a false illusion that Israel was wide open for any non-Israelite to come and live in when nothing could be further from the truth. Ancient Israel took national security very seriously as they were locked in mortal combat throughout most of their history with the wicked pagan nations surrounding them. They did not allow the surrounding pagan nation's inhabitants to simply rush into Israel by the millions, using a verse in Deuteronomy as a justification, and destroy Israel in that way.
Of course, they would tolerate a foreign slave who was being harshly mistreated for a period of time until arrangements could be made but this was not wholesale immigration into Israel by non-slaves. How many illegal immigrants are slaves being harshly mistreated by their owner? Zero, that's how many."
Source: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/98295-illegal-aliens-8.html#post1735437
The other poster then introduced a red herring into the discussion... lol. You two can hug, cosign each other's false assertions, engage in ad hominem, introduce red herrings, etc... all day long for all I care but what you can't is stop me from telling the truth. That, I will NOT allow. Get back on topic. Peace.
"First you do it by not pulling verses out of context. Jewish scholar Dr Stephen Steinlight says that the word for lives is literally sojourns or a temporary stay. While the Old Testament does confer rights on immigrants who sojourn with Israel (Deut. 23:3; 24: 14-21: 25:5; 26:10-13), these were still temporary visitors who held residence but were not citizens (Lev. 22:10; Psalm 19:12)
So right away, you're creating a false illusion that Israel was wide open for any non-Israelite to come and live in when nothing could be further from the truth. Ancient Israel took national security very seriously as they were locked in mortal combat throughout most of their history with the wicked pagan nations surrounding them. They did not allow the surrounding pagan nation's inhabitants to simply rush into Israel by the millions, using a verse in Deuteronomy as a justification, and destroy Israel in that way.
Of course, they would tolerate a foreign slave who was being harshly mistreated for a period of time until arrangements could be made but this was not wholesale immigration into Israel by non-slaves. How many illegal immigrants are slaves being harshly mistreated by their owner? Zero, that's how many."
Source: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/98295-illegal-aliens-8.html#post1735437
The other poster then introduced a red herring into the discussion... lol. You two can hug, cosign each other's false assertions, engage in ad hominem, introduce red herrings, etc... all day long for all I care but what you can't is stop me from telling the truth. That, I will NOT allow. Get back on topic. Peace.
A
New article worth reading: What Bible says about illegal immigration
Exodus 2:22 Zipporah gave birth to a son, and Moses named him Gershom, saying, “I have become a foreigner in a foreign land.”
Exodus 6:4 I also established my covenant with them to give them the land of Canaan, where they resided as foreigners.
Exodus 22:21 “Do not mistreat or oppress a foreigner, for you were foreigners in Egypt.
Exodus 6:4 I also established my covenant with them to give them the land of Canaan, where they resided as foreigners.
Exodus 22:21 “Do not mistreat or oppress a foreigner, for you were foreigners in Egypt.
A
You obviously never read the argument but instead engaged in exactly the behavior the author talks about in the article. I'll quote him:
"...seizing on one or two out-of-context verses in the Bible does not make for the kind of comprehensive moral case you would expect of those urging “'comprehensive immigration reform.'”
^ Exactly what you just did. Let's try this again. Actually READ the article and then comment on what the author is saying rather than simply engage in the exact negative behavior he's describing.
"...seizing on one or two out-of-context verses in the Bible does not make for the kind of comprehensive moral case you would expect of those urging “'comprehensive immigration reform.'”
^ Exactly what you just did. Let's try this again. Actually READ the article and then comment on what the author is saying rather than simply engage in the exact negative behavior he's describing.
let's talk about "taking a few verses out of context"
Let me conclude with one last relevant verse – Deuteronomy 27:17: “Cursed be he that removeth his neighbour’s landmark. And all the people shall say, Amen.”
when tired, poor, huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of some teeming shore show up at our doorstep, is that equivalent to "moving an ancient boundary stone" ?
to me, this seems more relevant to the Mexican-American war, wherein our nation moved the boundary of the nation of Mexico, and took the state of Texas from them.
That’s the clear message of the Bible – treat law-abiding foreigners and aliens with love and compassion.
actually the clear message of Christ is to treat even your enemies with compassion, to do good to them even while they hate you and despitefully use you. to give your cloak also to the thief that takes your shirt -- this is to love lawbreakers as well as the lawful. and it's not human love, human thought, or human reasoning - it's a divine compassion beyond all that, that we are called to.
besides misapplication, there's some contradictory thought process going on in this article too:
they were still expected to fully assimilate into the Hebrew religion and culture before they could receive all the blessings and all the responsibility of full citizenship.
right on, anyone looking to become a part of this country should seek a lawful path to full citizenship.
We shouldn’t be mean to those lawbreakers, either. We shouldn’t mistreat them. We should even forgive them. But they have to leave...
"they have to leave"? OK, this sentiment is biblical too, but not in the pious sense the author means it.
and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,”
without giving them the things needed for the body,
what good is that?
(James 2:16)
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I've already refuted your nonsense posthuman. All anyone need do is read the thread. Here's a fact for everyone else: Most of the people the U.S. Border Patrol stopped from sneaking into the country last year were from countries other than Mexico and Middle Eastern ISIS members appear to have been among them.
And I quote:
"The statistics kept by ICE to measure interior enforcement activity reveal that it is in a state of collapse, with declining arrests and deportations, tens of thousands of criminal aliens being released back to American communities, and many more illegal residents who have been declared immune from enforcement. Such a state of affairs will continue to attract new illegal settlement, further increasing the burden that illegal immigration imposes on the nation. In addition, it serves as an invitation to foreign groups and individuals who wish to inflict harm on Americans to take advantage of our lax policies."
ICE Enforcement Collapses Further in 2014 | Center for Immigration Studies
And I quote:
"The statistics kept by ICE to measure interior enforcement activity reveal that it is in a state of collapse, with declining arrests and deportations, tens of thousands of criminal aliens being released back to American communities, and many more illegal residents who have been declared immune from enforcement. Such a state of affairs will continue to attract new illegal settlement, further increasing the burden that illegal immigration imposes on the nation. In addition, it serves as an invitation to foreign groups and individuals who wish to inflict harm on Americans to take advantage of our lax policies."
ICE Enforcement Collapses Further in 2014 | Center for Immigration Studies
