In Matthew ch 7 good Christians go to Hell? Let's talk.

[Jonteel]

Ok. We see that in John God "knows these.. In Matt God doesn't know them. Samuel23 mentioned this as critical and it is. This, John 10: 27, is the answer to the question "How can I be known?" Now, you will see in Matt 7 that the people did a few good things. As was mentioned by Grace777, there are tares mixed with good. The key seems to be in 10:27 that the sheep hear the lords voice.

I will use Phillip now, as I said that I would. Phillip could have gone anywhere on the day he met the eunuch, However, he obeyed that tiny voice and me a man. Did you ever consider that the eunuch worked for the king of Ethiopia? That man went back to the king with a message that Phillip had given. The entire country was under the rule of what I imagine was a king who knew the "message.' Phillip may have started a "revival" in ethiopia.

Now back to 10:27. We see that the sheep hear the voice They are not off doing useless stuff. I could spend endless hours trying to help people who will never accept Christ. Believe me, I have spent years wasting God's time. After we sleep, travel, shop, and work, there are only a few hours remaining in every day. I sherish every free minute and my nightmare is wasting them.

I believe that if I wanted to, I could go into town and find 1,000 people and 10,000 ways to invest time. But, are ANY of them the exact person, the exact need, the exact purpose that God needs for me to accomplish?

If I spend 40 years on the street, will i do as much as Phillip did in one day? Will I be like King Saul? He thought he was doing good deeds. God didn't. Saul ran a country, but God saw no good in his many efforts. Was Saul like the guys in Matt 7? Maybe.

Now, back to 10:27 we see that no man can pluck these sheep from God's hand. I'll bet Saul was wishing he was unpluckable on judgement day. The spiirit of God is our 24/7 365 direct line to God. Before we walk, write, or act, we need to seek God's will. Lord, did you say, "A eunuch?" "Damascus Road?" [SUP]27[/SUP] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

[SUP]28[/SUP] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.

Too many Christians are like Saul. They say, "sorry lord. I need to kill that shepherd, Davey, the son of the peasant sheepherder."

As I mentioned yesterday there is a third verse that this leads us to: John 17:3 That they might know him the only true God and him whom tou has sent, Jesus Christ.
Why do I include this verse? Well, in 10:27, it says, "and I give them eternal life." This defines eternal life. I am big on knowing what the Bible defines things as. It also pertains to Matt 7. The men that were sent away did not go to Heaven, so, it's important. AI dare say that many people are wasting God's time and will expect to get into Heaven on that day.

 

[presidente]

Jesus asked those who accused Him of casting out demons by Beelzebub 'by whom do your children cast them out.' He also called casting out demons in his own name a sign or miracle, depending on your translation.

Judas had power to perform miracles.

Balaam normally resorted to divination, but on one occasion, we see that he prophesied by the Spirit of God. We also see that he heard Yahweh speak to him. He prayed to Him as well. Caiaphas the high priest prophesied while plotting the death of Jesus.

Prophesying does not guarantee the individual who does it eternal life. But it is clear from the passage that those who are sent away are not 'good Christians.' They are workers of iniquity/lawlessness.

I think this is a good place for a greater to lesser argument. If the Lord will send away those who prophesy and heal in his name (or have reason enough to claim to do so), how much more those who do not do such things and live lawless lives.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Ok. We see that in John God "knows these.. In Matt God doesn't know them. Samuel23 mentioned this as critical and it is. This, John 10: 27, is the answer to the question "How can I be known?" Now, you will see in Matt 7 that the people did a few good things. As was mentioned by Grace777, there are tares mixed with good. The key seems to be in 10:27 that the sheep hear the lords voice.

I will use Phillip now, as I said that I would. Phillip could have gone anywhere on the day he met the eunuch, However, he obeyed that tiny voice and me a man. Did you ever consider that the eunuch worked for the king of Ethiopia? That man went back to the king with a message that Phillip had given. The entire country was under the rule of what I imagine was a king who knew the "message.' Phillip may have started a "revival" in ethiopia.

Now back to 10:27. We see that the sheep hear the voice They are not off doing useless stuff. I could spend endless hours trying to help people who will never accept Christ. Believe me, I have spent years wasting God's time. After we sleep, travel, shop, and work, there are only a few hours remaining in every day. I sherish every free minute and my nightmare is wasting them.

I believe that if I wanted to, I could go into town and find 1,000 people and 10,000 ways to invest time. But, are ANY of them the exact person, the exact need, the exact purpose that God needs for me to accomplish?

If I spend 40 years on the street, will i do as much as Phillip did in one day? Will I be like King Saul? He thought he was doing good deeds. God didn't. Saul ran a country, but God saw no good in his many efforts. Was Saul like the guys in Matt 7? Maybe.

Now, back to 10:27 we see that no man can pluck these sheep from God's hand. I'll bet Saul was wishing he was unpluckable on judgement day. The spiirit of God is our 24/7 365 direct line to God. Before we walk, write, or act, we need to seek God's will. Lord, did you say, "A eunuch?" "Damascus Road?" [SUP]27[/SUP] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

[SUP]28[/SUP] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.

Too many Christians are like Saul. They say, "sorry lord. I need to kill that shepherd, Davey, the son of the peasant sheepherder."

As I mentioned yesterday there is a third verse that this leads us to: John 17:3 That they might know him the only true God and him whom tou has sent, Jesus Christ.
Why do I include this verse? Well, in 10:27, it says, "and I give them eternal life." This defines eternal life. I am big on knowing what the Bible defines things as. It also pertains to Matt 7. The men that were sent away did not go to Heaven, so, it's important. AI dare say that many people are wasting God's time and will expect to get into Heaven on that day.

Ah...I am weary even before the attack starts. And it will start. They will take great offense because you are saying obedience to His voice matters and so they will feel threatened and will insist you are teaching "dead works." Yes, I know it makes no sense. But they will shriek about you saying obedience to His voice matters because they insist no obedience is necessary because they are secure with or without it. Strange as it sounds, you will be attacked worse for this post than you were the last few days.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Ok. We see that in John God "knows these.. In Matt God doesn't know them. Samuel23 mentioned this as critical and it is. This, John 10: 27, is the answer to the question "How can I be known?" Now, you will see in Matt 7 that the people did a few good things. As was mentioned by Grace777, there are tares mixed with good. The key seems to be in 10:27 that the sheep hear the lords voice.

I will use Phillip now, as I said that I would. Phillip could have gone anywhere on the day he met the eunuch, However, he obeyed that tiny voice and me a man. Did you ever consider that the eunuch worked for the king of Ethiopia? That man went back to the king with a message that Phillip had given. The entire country was under the rule of what I imagine was a king who knew the "message.' Phillip may have started a "revival" in ethiopia.

Now back to 10:27. We see that the sheep hear the voice They are not off doing useless stuff. I could spend endless hours trying to help people who will never accept Christ. Believe me, I have spent years wasting God's time. After we sleep, travel, shop, and work, there are only a few hours remaining in every day. I sherish every free minute and my nightmare is wasting them.

I believe that if I wanted to, I could go into town and find 1,000 people and 10,000 ways to invest time. But, are ANY of them the exact person, the exact need, the exact purpose that God needs for me to accomplish?

If I spend 40 years on the street, will i do as much as Phillip did in one day? Will I be like King Saul? He thought he was doing good deeds. God didn't. Saul ran a country, but God saw no good in his many efforts. Was Saul like the guys in Matt 7? Maybe.

Now, back to 10:27 we see that no man can pluck these sheep from God's hand. I'll bet Saul was wishing he was unpluckable on judgement day. The spiirit of God is our 24/7 365 direct line to God. Before we walk, write, or act, we need to seek God's will. Lord, did you say, "A eunuch?" "Damascus Road?" [SUP]27[/SUP] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

[SUP]28[/SUP] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.

Too many Christians are like Saul. They say, "sorry lord. I need to kill that shepherd, Davey, the son of the peasant sheepherder."

As I mentioned yesterday there is a third verse that this leads us to: John 17:3 That they might know him the only true God and him whom tou has sent, Jesus Christ.
Why do I include this verse? Well, in 10:27, it says, "and I give them eternal life." This defines eternal life. I am big on knowing what the Bible defines things as. It also pertains to Matt 7. The men that were sent away did not go to Heaven, so, it's important. AI dare say that many people are wasting God's time and will expect to get into Heaven on that day.

Good evening Jonteel,

"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, [did we not] prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’

* only he who does the will of My Father

* did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?

What is the will of the Father?

"Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

"And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us."

Were those men in the scripture above believing in the One that the Father had sent? No, they were not!
For if they had been, their reason for why they should be able to enter into the kingdom of God would not have started with "did we not." Their response demonstrates that they were not trusting in Christ for their eternal life, but their own works.

The answer is found right in the context and there is therefore no need to refer to Samuel, Philip, David, Saul, John, etc., etc. These types of people will not be denied entry into the kingdom of God for "wasting God's time" as you put it, but for not having faith in his Son. Prophesying, casting out demons and performing miracles, are the gifts of the Spirit as a result of having faith in Christ and not the performing of them. Those works that Christ mentioned are just examples. Anything else that people are trusting in can replace those:

Lord, Lord, did we not keep the Sabbath on Saturday and abstain from certain foods and did we not obey the ten commandments? And we have had plenty of these types of people come on this forum who promote works as a means of salvation.

We are not under the works of the law, but are saved by grace through faith apart from works. Good works are a result of our faith in Christ and only faith in Him is what saves us. Anyone who is trusting in their own efforts along side of what Christ did are basically saying that Christ's sacrifice was insufficient. As believers in Christ, we should all have the same attitude that Paul did:

May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ

 

[JesusRules1]

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Mat 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
Mat 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
Mat 25:3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
Mat 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
Mat 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
Mat 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
Mat 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
Mat 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
Mat 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
Mat 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Not everybody that claims Jesus as Lord and Savior receive the Spirit,and that is the problem,and without the Spirit we cannot live for God rightly,which Jesus said you shall know them by their fruits.

 

[Jonteel]

Stunned, you are right. I know . I was in the forums in the 90"s. God told me t return, and I did.

 

[Jonteel]

Ahwa, you seem pretty sharp, this brings in a discussion about chaff, tares, wheat, who is saved, and a dozen other topics that this touches. I estimate 200 pages of coment. 15 threads and 80% trolling in the 200 pages.

I'll let you decide about what the word says in regards to "every word will be judged." In regard to Christians, I am not here to address the saved, but those like Saul and others who sincerely believe they are saved.
As for the saved, we need to Hear God.

I am on a really tight schedule, or I'd have a bit more time here. Thanks. You did make me think, but I'm not sure you see what I tried to say. I may have chosen the wrong word. I've been typing for 5 hours on 3 forums and have many miles to go before I am done, but, you took the time, and I want to take a little to answer your post

 

[Jonteel]

President, I never thought of that, Judas could do miracles...Interesting....