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Ok so I think I might have created some confusion with this wrong comment here. There is a huge difference between "neglecting Gid" and being "indifferent to God". We are obviously not indifferent to God but unfortunately we do neglect God sometimes. Since we are saved by His blood we can no longer be indifferent too Him. We cannot be indifferent because we now know God. We can become so comfortable in God that we can begin to neglect Him. We can stop study or church thinking that since God has us in His hands we don't need to do all that. In fact the opposite is true...we need that even more now because forces against us will try and stop us. So yep Angela was right 
I don't know where my mind was when I wrote that lol.
I don't know where my mind was when I wrote that lol.
There have been times in my life when I was angry at God! But that was not indifference. It was because I did not understand the nature and character of God. It was because I did not get my way when I prayed. It was because life, at that point, didn't seem to be turning out the way I had been taught - with heath and wealth and finally being carried bodily into heaven instead of facing death (Like Enosh and Elijah)
Ok, I exaggerate a little! But God was able to pull me out of that, and teach me about his love, mercy and grace. I was shown Scriptures as I read the Bible that made me realize that this life was not perfect, and God was not a sugar daddy or fairy godmother - but the Lord of the universe!
I have to wonder if complacency in the Christian walk is part of the issue leading to indifference? When people sit in a church on Sunday morning, and do not check out everything the pastor says through studying the Bible themselves, when people do not pray and develop that intimate relationship with Christ, then complacency and indifference to God are the result.
S
Can I just say right now that I am getting quite a lot out of this little thread right here , even tho there's only been a few posting, it's been refreshingly edifying and thought-provoking, and I hope it continues to 'evolve', so thanks elf and mpw for starting the discussion. Btw, elf, a LITtle SYD note, I know you're an actual elf and your standing on the chair wearing your hat, but ppl don't believe me. How can I convince them?
E
Sliding off your final paragraph here is an indifference to God's Word. Like you said do we just sit and listen to a preacher or do we get into God's Word. Does God's Word really say what they spoke about? An indifference to God's Word comes in a couple different forms.
1. Complete indifference; it's just a book who cares what it says.
2. Semi indifference; the pastor said it, it must be true. No use reading because he just told me.
3. Personal indifference; this would be a study of God's Word but making it say what we want by "shallow" study. A pick and choose type of study to make God's Word conform to our own wants and needs.
Different levels of indifference to God's Word? Yes I believe so. Do we fall into one of these categories? I know I don't fall into categories 1 or 2 but I pray I do not fall into category 3. I pray that thru my study the Holy Spirit teaches me the truth not what I want the truth to be. Category 3 is a very dangerous level of indifference to be in. Not only do we need the Holy Spirit for guidance but we need other Christian friends and mentors to help us dig deep into God's Word for truth. Category 3 is a reliance upon ourselves for truth and if we want we can find others who do the same thing. We cannot take just one verse and base a theology upon it. This is the indifference of category 3 pertaining to God's Word.
1. Complete indifference; it's just a book who cares what it says.
2. Semi indifference; the pastor said it, it must be true. No use reading because he just told me.
3. Personal indifference; this would be a study of God's Word but making it say what we want by "shallow" study. A pick and choose type of study to make God's Word conform to our own wants and needs.
Different levels of indifference to God's Word? Yes I believe so. Do we fall into one of these categories? I know I don't fall into categories 1 or 2 but I pray I do not fall into category 3. I pray that thru my study the Holy Spirit teaches me the truth not what I want the truth to be. Category 3 is a very dangerous level of indifference to be in. Not only do we need the Holy Spirit for guidance but we need other Christian friends and mentors to help us dig deep into God's Word for truth. Category 3 is a reliance upon ourselves for truth and if we want we can find others who do the same thing. We cannot take just one verse and base a theology upon it. This is the indifference of category 3 pertaining to God's Word.
J
I haven't read the thread, but I have to say that one of my biggest fears in relation to myself is the fear that I'm way too indifferent towards others, especially in relation to sharing the gospel. Think about it:
Most of the world is lost and headed for eternal damnation and what am I doing about it?
Not much, I'm afraid, and that can't be a good thing.
Most of the world is lost and headed for eternal damnation and what am I doing about it?
Not much, I'm afraid, and that can't be a good thing.
A healthy-minded person can choose to "straddle the fence", or be lukewarm. Straddling is halting between two sides, perhaps simply so as not to offend friends on each side of that fence. Being lukewarm is well described like mixing hot and cold water. The next step is to keep adding hot or cold in an effort to get it just right. It's all a play on flesh.
I find there's another aspect of indifference that can be deadliest of all. Concerning the first commandment, each of us has a set of beliefs of what it means to love God and neighbor. Yours might involve unrealistic expectations that would be totally rejected by other people. Over time each of us will test our beliefs against our expectations, modifying our beliefs and/or expectations.
If what we believe proves unfruitful in our life, both negative and positive ideas are discarded, leaving neither positive or negative ideas to consider. In that case, one is left with no idea about it, clueless, and by default indifferent by default, or better, determined to hit the reset button to learn where we got off track. Indifference covers our weakness. If resetting, making effort to gain a better set of beliefs, we are no longer indifferent towards God, but until confidence builds, could easily remain indifferent about it around other people.
You've heard the phrase "I don't know enough to ask a question about that"? This is along that line. Especially men, who identify as Christian, tend to remain silent on spiritual matters in public. I'm learning that tendency is more prevalent than I thought in their marriages, too. A reason we don't engage is because we don't want to appear ignorant, wrong, inadequate in front of people. So there's often an "air" of indifference among folks that are actually very concerned about their spiritual well being. If all we've held as a basis of belief about loving God and others turns out to not be practical, surface indifference serves as a shield to avoid detection of confusion.
I find there's another aspect of indifference that can be deadliest of all. Concerning the first commandment, each of us has a set of beliefs of what it means to love God and neighbor. Yours might involve unrealistic expectations that would be totally rejected by other people. Over time each of us will test our beliefs against our expectations, modifying our beliefs and/or expectations.
If what we believe proves unfruitful in our life, both negative and positive ideas are discarded, leaving neither positive or negative ideas to consider. In that case, one is left with no idea about it, clueless, and by default indifferent by default, or better, determined to hit the reset button to learn where we got off track. Indifference covers our weakness. If resetting, making effort to gain a better set of beliefs, we are no longer indifferent towards God, but until confidence builds, could easily remain indifferent about it around other people.
You've heard the phrase "I don't know enough to ask a question about that"? This is along that line. Especially men, who identify as Christian, tend to remain silent on spiritual matters in public. I'm learning that tendency is more prevalent than I thought in their marriages, too. A reason we don't engage is because we don't want to appear ignorant, wrong, inadequate in front of people. So there's often an "air" of indifference among folks that are actually very concerned about their spiritual well being. If all we've held as a basis of belief about loving God and others turns out to not be practical, surface indifference serves as a shield to avoid detection of confusion.
E
In the sermons I preached and the Bible studies I have led I always ended on this saying. "Do not just believe what I said but, study Scripture and check my teaching". My dad, who is a pastor, said that too me years ago. We cannot be indifferent to God's Word by just believing everything we are told.
One of my favorite passages of Scripture comes from Psalms 25:4,5 "Show me your ways, O Lord, teach me your paths; guide me in your truth and teach me., for you are God my Savior, and my hope is in you all day long." NKJV. This should be our prayer every time before we begin to study God's Word.
God's Word is one of the things we should not neglect or be indifferent too. God's Word IS truth so thus should be our joy!
One of my favorite passages of Scripture comes from Psalms 25:4,5 "Show me your ways, O Lord, teach me your paths; guide me in your truth and teach me., for you are God my Savior, and my hope is in you all day long." NKJV. This should be our prayer every time before we begin to study God's Word.
God's Word is one of the things we should not neglect or be indifferent too. God's Word IS truth so thus should be our joy!
V
I like your entire OP, but this portion in particular.
Amen! I believe indifference is truly the opposite of love, as both are not emotions, but decisions. Hate is an emotion, and emotions can be without sin, though I believe this one is difficult to justify as ever being righteous.
Decisions, on the other hand, are made based on both emotion and cognition, and are easily sinful due to self-will. We can be indifferent to the Gospel, indifferent to the lost, indifferent to the stranger, but in none of those cases are we right. Our one and only command from Christ as Christians is to love -- God first, then all others. We cannot love if we are indifferent.
Decisions, on the other hand, are made based on both emotion and cognition, and are easily sinful due to self-will. We can be indifferent to the Gospel, indifferent to the lost, indifferent to the stranger, but in none of those cases are we right. Our one and only command from Christ as Christians is to love -- God first, then all others. We cannot love if we are indifferent.
E
I personally think you are correct saying "men tend to remain silent". We have to be the string rock. Any sign of us "having a question" can be seen as weakness and we don't want to be weak. We dont want to "look dumb" so we remsin silent. I have learned the hard way that remaining silent leads to confusion which leads to an incorrect understanding of God's Word. I have a saying which I rely upon myself "there are no dumb questions, only those not asked". I for sure don't know it all so I refuse to remain silent in times of my questions.
Is this indifference, or deliberately disobeying God's command as per Mat 28:18-20?
"And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” Matt 28:18-20
GO and MAKE DISCIPLES in this verse are in the imperative in Greek. That means it is a command! Sadly, very few churches preach on this passage these days, except for the occasional evanglical church. And then that has to be translated into action by believers. It is not just a command for missionaries and pastors, but for everyone who calls Jesus Lord and Saviour!
"And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” Matt 28:18-20
GO and MAKE DISCIPLES in this verse are in the imperative in Greek. That means it is a command! Sadly, very few churches preach on this passage these days, except for the occasional evanglical church. And then that has to be translated into action by believers. It is not just a command for missionaries and pastors, but for everyone who calls Jesus Lord and Saviour!
J
Don't get me wrong...
I've preached on the streets, witnessed to many different people one on one over the years, taught Bible studies, etc., etc., but sometimes I just get caught up in the affairs of this world and it seems to rob my precious time and to keep me from the things which are really important. It's not like I'm indulging in sinful pursuits or anything like that either. I have a wife and three young children and I basically have to work like a dog just to maintain them and that leaves me very little free time for anything else. To be totally honest with you, I just came back to this forum today after a few months (I think) away from here and when I read the OP I almost shut down my account again. IOW, I know (it seems that way, anyway...only God truly knows), from experience, that involvement in these types of forums rarely produces any lasting fruit, so I'm weary of involving myself in the same to begin with.
Anyhow, are you sure that the great commission applies to everybody? Just a day or two ago, for the first time ever, I was wondering if I haven't been putting too much pressure upon myself. I mean, when I read the epistles, I don't really see the Apostles instructing all of the Christians to go out and evangelize and the like. It seems more like they're constantly being admonished on how to lead godly lives. How do you suppose that the great commission is for everybody? Is everybody truly a preacher or ought we to be waiting upon the call of God in our lives in regard to the same? I'm just asking. Thank you.
I've preached on the streets, witnessed to many different people one on one over the years, taught Bible studies, etc., etc., but sometimes I just get caught up in the affairs of this world and it seems to rob my precious time and to keep me from the things which are really important. It's not like I'm indulging in sinful pursuits or anything like that either. I have a wife and three young children and I basically have to work like a dog just to maintain them and that leaves me very little free time for anything else. To be totally honest with you, I just came back to this forum today after a few months (I think) away from here and when I read the OP I almost shut down my account again. IOW, I know (it seems that way, anyway...only God truly knows), from experience, that involvement in these types of forums rarely produces any lasting fruit, so I'm weary of involving myself in the same to begin with.
Anyhow, are you sure that the great commission applies to everybody? Just a day or two ago, for the first time ever, I was wondering if I haven't been putting too much pressure upon myself. I mean, when I read the epistles, I don't really see the Apostles instructing all of the Christians to go out and evangelize and the like. It seems more like they're constantly being admonished on how to lead godly lives. How do you suppose that the great commission is for everybody? Is everybody truly a preacher or ought we to be waiting upon the call of God in our lives in regard to the same? I'm just asking. Thank you.
M
For sure we all have different gifts we should use for God's purpose, we are not all preachers or teachers. some of us have different gifts though I do believe we should all try to bring the lost to Christ when opportunity arises. Sometimes it's the preacher in need of encouragement - someone else's gift. Being part of the body of Christ is not about one person or one gift but together we can do great things. Personally I feel that if it isn't prompted by the Holy Spirit, preaching to the lost is a waste of time. When I find myself in a situation where I'm tempted to talk about Jesus I generally say a short prayer and wait for the prompting.
Jesus didn't instruct his Apostles to make disciples in Matt 28:16-20. He commanded his disciples to make disciples. So if we are not making disciples, are we disciples?
"Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” Matt 28:16-28
And just because it is not written in the epistles, it doesn't mean that people weren't evangelizing a lost world. The epistles were mostly written for correction, and private teaching to Timothy and Titus. They were correcting doctrinal error. So if the people were active in making disciples, which they obviously were, since the gospel spread like wild fire throughout the known world, then there would be no need to rebuke them for not doing it.
I truly believe that we do need to be witnessing to people. For most people, friendship evangelism is the most effective these days. So that means hanging out with the lost, instead of our Christian friends and family, and praying for those lost people. God will open doors if we make ourselves available.
As for the apostles overriding the last command of Jesus, found in both Matt 28:18-20 and Acts 1:8. It was the last command of Jesus before he was taken up to heaven. Also, read the book of Acts. It really is the story of the birth of the church, and how the gospel spread. That explosion of the gospel wasn't limited to 11 (or 12 including Paul) disciples or apostles in Acts. People were all working towards the common goal of making Christ known.
So beware of complacency, indifference and rationalizing away this command of Jesus! And no, I don't think we are to stress out over this, but pray for God to open doors to witness to the lost we meet and know.
"Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” Matt 28:16-28
And just because it is not written in the epistles, it doesn't mean that people weren't evangelizing a lost world. The epistles were mostly written for correction, and private teaching to Timothy and Titus. They were correcting doctrinal error. So if the people were active in making disciples, which they obviously were, since the gospel spread like wild fire throughout the known world, then there would be no need to rebuke them for not doing it.
I truly believe that we do need to be witnessing to people. For most people, friendship evangelism is the most effective these days. So that means hanging out with the lost, instead of our Christian friends and family, and praying for those lost people. God will open doors if we make ourselves available.
As for the apostles overriding the last command of Jesus, found in both Matt 28:18-20 and Acts 1:8. It was the last command of Jesus before he was taken up to heaven. Also, read the book of Acts. It really is the story of the birth of the church, and how the gospel spread. That explosion of the gospel wasn't limited to 11 (or 12 including Paul) disciples or apostles in Acts. People were all working towards the common goal of making Christ known.
So beware of complacency, indifference and rationalizing away this command of Jesus! And no, I don't think we are to stress out over this, but pray for God to open doors to witness to the lost we meet and know.
J
I don't mean for this to sound the least bit disrespectful, but didn't you just disprove your own intended point? I mean, the quote from Matthew clearly mentions "eleven disciples" and this certainly seems to refer to the remaining "eleven apostles", minus Judas, at that point in time.
Anyhow, I do always not only look for, but also pray for, witnessing opportunities, but my own dilemma is a bit deeper than that. IOW, I normally put in about 80 or 90 hour work weeks, driving all over the place in the process, and for what? To merely put bread on my table? I get so conflicted because I do have a genuine burden not only for the lost, but also for the saints as well, and I'm constantly pleading with God to allot more of my time towards His work than to just laboring for the wind. Believe me, I get that a married man needs to care for his family and that that is a part of doing the Lord's work, but I simply cannot fathom that I've sought God with my whole heart for 27 years now and that although my heart is for the Lord's work, I pretty much am consumed with everything but that. I just don't get it.
Anyhow, I do always not only look for, but also pray for, witnessing opportunities, but my own dilemma is a bit deeper than that. IOW, I normally put in about 80 or 90 hour work weeks, driving all over the place in the process, and for what? To merely put bread on my table? I get so conflicted because I do have a genuine burden not only for the lost, but also for the saints as well, and I'm constantly pleading with God to allot more of my time towards His work than to just laboring for the wind. Believe me, I get that a married man needs to care for his family and that that is a part of doing the Lord's work, but I simply cannot fathom that I've sought God with my whole heart for 27 years now and that although my heart is for the Lord's work, I pretty much am consumed with everything but that. I just don't get it.