indifference

[elf3]

A little while back my good friend, MadParrotWoman, and I were having a Biblical discussion that involved "relationships". During one discussing she brought up the word "indifferent". We began to discuss this word and what it meant concerning our relationship to God and others.

Definitions from Websters Dictionary of the English language.

Indifference; lack of interest or feeling
Indifferent; not interested || having no preference, impartial || affording no grounds or preference || rather poor, mediocre

When we look at strong words in language we think of love and hate. But, I feel, indifference is just as strong a word if not stronger. True indifference is a "neutral" word. It is a not caring one way or another. But, are we truly indifferent when we use the word? There are very few things, I believe. In which we are truly indifferent. We usually have a "leaning" towards one side or another no matter how small that may be.

But let's look at indifference, as defined, in our relationships towards God or others. Let's also look at indifference towards God's Word and how that could affect our lives. God is not indifferent towards us or anything else so should we really be indifferent?

Let's begin with a few verses, first, where God does not call us to be indifferent towards Him or others. Matthew 22:37-40 "Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind.' 'This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbors as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." NKJV.

Our discussion was based around our relationship toward God and others so I feel this is a good place to start. We each had other thoughts on the subject but I will quote those later as we progress in this discussion.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

A little while back my good friend, MadParrotWoman, and I were having a Biblical discussion that involved "relationships". During one discussing she brought up the word "indifferent". We began to discuss this word and what it meant concerning our relationship to God and others.

Definitions from Websters Dictionary of the English language.

Indifference; lack of interest or feeling
Indifferent; not interested || having no preference, impartial || affording no grounds or preference || rather poor, mediocre

When we look at strong words in language we think of love and hate. But, I feel, indifference is just as strong a word if not stronger. True indifference is a "neutral" word. It is a not caring one way or another. But, are we truly indifferent when we use the word? There are very few things, I believe. In which we are truly indifferent. We usually have a "leaning" towards one side or another no matter how small that may be.

But let's look at indifference, as defined, in our relationships towards God or others. Let's also look at indifference towards God's Word and how that could affect our lives. God is not indifferent towards us or anything else so should we really be indifferent?

Let's begin with a few verses, first, where God does not call us to be indifferent towards Him or others. Matthew 22:37-40 "Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind.' 'This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbors as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." NKJV.

Our discussion was based around our relationship toward God and others so I feel this is a good place to start. We each had other thoughts on the subject but I will quote those later as we progress in this discussion.

Could "indifference" be compared to this:

Revelation 3:16
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

 

[Magenta]

Could "indifference" be compared to this: Revelation 3:16
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Exactly the verse I thought of!

 

[dcontroversal]

I have often said there is no fence to straddle within the ranks of biblical Christianity...being indifferent is in a way trying to straddle the fence and remain in the middle...Neither for or against any one particular thing, thought, teaching, practice, doctrine etc.....

At the end of the day we must choose a side to stand on, because to not stand for that which is right, godly, biblical automatically lumps one to the side of error.....To choose not to choose or make a stand is a choice!

 

[Willie-T]

Could "indifference" be compared to this:

Revelation 3:16
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Just EXACTLY what came to my mind upon reading the OP.

 

[KennethC]

Could "indifference" be compared to this:

Revelation 3:16
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Yes this is exactly right as you either are hot and love the Lord our God and in that love continue of follow, uphold, and defend His teachings and commands given; Or you are cold and completely reject everything about God and His Son.

But if you are lukewarm and say you love Him but your actions and speech show differently then that indifference will cause you as the Lord said to be spit out. You either have to be fully for Him or you are against Him !!!

 

[Willie-T]

Yes this is exactly right as you either are hot and love the Lord our God and in that love continue of follow, uphold, and defend His teachings and commands given; Or you are cold and completely reject everything about God and His Son.

But if you are lukewarm and say you love Him but your actions and speech show differently then that indifference will cause you as the Lord said to be spit out. You either have to be fully for Him or you are against Him !!!

Stop and think about what you just said. If that verse means what you said, God is saying He will keep you in His mouth if you are entirely against Him.

Are we really sure the verse means this?

 

[secularhermit]

Adding nothing new to what is already said (but being indifferent on that subject) I´d like to mention one of those threads MadP have posted "Unfriending"... There you could see different reactions on that subject and our indifferent positions of relationships.

Each time I read about the Good Samaritan or that man Lazarus who sat in front of the rich man, I see how Jesus dealt with that subject, social differences, etc.

Since I´m not prone to be in these biblical discussions (no need to) I wanted to leave these lines, plus this:

I liked that movie!

* I saw it very interesting on how a rich man changed his stingy mind before he died (it wasn´t in his actual bucket list).

* He tried to lure his black friend away, the moment he hired a woman to cheat on the wife he has.

* Althought they were NOT real friends who had known each other BEFORE, that made-believe movie showed you don´t have to be Christian to be generous, friendly or kind, to have a partner achieving those dreams he had (forgotten) as his postposed bucket list.

* Beside, another thing I liked, shows a posible way of RACIAL integration with the plus benefit that one was rich and, the other, was a high qualified "poor" man.

I loved those subliminal working in my mind.


That also deals with that matter, although secularly.

 

[sydlit]

Just EXACTLY what came to my mind upon reading the OP.

And ditto also as well I re-iterate indubidably. Seems we're all in agreement here, I'll only add I know first hand the danger of an indifferent mindset. It's the biggest shame I have, more so than any sin, is an indifferent resonse to God. I don't mean to endorse anything here, but someone gave me a book called 'When I DON'T Desire God' by JohnPiper, maybe someone could benefit by it. But I pray no one here ever needs it. Indifference may be the worst, most empty, sin-soaked feeling one could experience. Whether towards God, or our brothers and sisters, or even un-believers or even (ourSELVES I'm trying to learn) ...love, hate, cherish, or get mad, but PLEASE don't just shrug in indifference. I'm still not where I want to be Re: this, but I did get Some consolation knowing there are others who've had a similar struggle with this. Thanks for posting this thread as a much-needed reminder/warning again today

 

[KennethC]

Stop and think about what you just said. If that verse means what you said, God is saying He will keep you in His mouth if you are entirely against Him.

Are we really sure the verse means this?

It does not say He will keep you in His mouth if you are entirely against Him, it says you are either hot and are totally with the Lord our God, you are cold and totally against Him which means you were never His to begin with, or you are lukewarm and claim to love Him and may even follow for a little but then do to disobedience and continuing to live your own way He will spit you out for trying to serve Him and flesh both.

 

[atwhatcost]

A little while back my good friend, MadParrotWoman, and I were having a Biblical discussion that involved "relationships". During one discussing she brought up the word "indifferent". We began to discuss this word and what it meant concerning our relationship to God and others.

Definitions from Websters Dictionary of the English language.

Indifference; lack of interest or feeling
Indifferent; not interested || having no preference, impartial || affording no grounds or preference || rather poor, mediocre

When we look at strong words in language we think of love and hate. But, I feel, indifference is just as strong a word if not stronger. True indifference is a "neutral" word. It is a not caring one way or another. But, are we truly indifferent when we use the word? There are very few things, I believe. In which we are truly indifferent. We usually have a "leaning" towards one side or another no matter how small that may be.

But let's look at indifference, as defined, in our relationships towards God or others. Let's also look at indifference towards God's Word and how that could affect our lives. God is not indifferent towards us or anything else so should we really be indifferent?

Let's begin with a few verses, first, where God does not call us to be indifferent towards Him or others. Matthew 22:37-40 "Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind.' 'This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbors as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." NKJV.

Our discussion was based around our relationship toward God and others so I feel this is a good place to start. We each had other thoughts on the subject but I will quote those later as we progress in this discussion.

I cannot prove this Biblical, but I think "indifferent" is the opposite of love. We know what it is to love. That's a good feeling.

We instantly jump to hate, because it is the other end of love. There's a fiery passion in hate like there is a fiery passion in love. I hate liver. I hate the dementia that is taking my father away from me. I hate what some people have done to me in my life.

But notice: it takes several forms. In truth, I don't really hate liver. I sincerely dislike the taste and feel of it. It's nothing personal. It's just a saying. I'm not indifferent to it though, because I have a strong opinion about it and it is not favorable. On the other hand, I'm not entirely against it. Sure, no way, no how you're ever going to get me to eat it unless you put a gun to my head, but that would tip the scales on how I feel about you. At that point in time, I'd hate you.

I do hate dementia. It's insidious. It steals a person's mind. It's personal.

I do hate what people have done to me too. I hate the guys who raped me because they were indifferent to me. It was nothing personal -- just a warm female body on a particular night.

That's the thing about hate. I don't hate Iranians, as I'm supposed to as a good Americans. They've done nothing against me. They've done nothing against my country, so I have nothing against them. (This is not to be confused with how I feel about the Iranian government. Them I hate, with a passion, and for viable reasons.)

Hate is when someone does something we more than merely seriously dislike in a personal way. It is caused because we care, one way or another, about that person.

Indifference is lack of care. I've long thought indifference is the opposite of love and hate. And notice the Bible talks about those who love God or hate him. Indifference isn't really something in the Bible, because God brings out the fiery for all people -- in a good way or bad way. No one is indifferent to God. We either hate him or love him, and if we aren't chosen by him, it's always hate.

 

[atwhatcost]

Could "indifference" be compared to this:

Revelation 3:16
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

I don't think so. Lukewarm is a halfhearted attempt. Indifference is not even noticing to attempt.

 

[atwhatcost]

I have often said there is no fence to straddle within the ranks of biblical Christianity...being indifferent is in a way trying to straddle the fence and remain in the middle...Neither for or against any one particular thing, thought, teaching, practice, doctrine etc.....

At the end of the day we must choose a side to stand on, because to not stand for that which is right, godly, biblical automatically lumps one to the side of error.....To choose not to choose or make a stand is a choice!

Straddling a fence takes effort. Indifference lacks effort. It even lacks the knowledge of needing effort for something. Ever see someone you don't know wearing an unremarkable hat? Our reaction to that is indifference.

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes this is exactly right as you either are hot and love the Lord our God and in that love continue of follow, uphold, and defend His teachings and commands given; Or you are cold and completely reject everything about God and His Son.

But if you are lukewarm and say you love Him but your actions and speech show differently then that indifference will cause you as the Lord said to be spit out. You either have to be fully for Him or you are against Him !!!

You need to re-evaluate that verse without your lose your salvation theology....the idea is to be refreshing like a cup of hot coffee or a glass of ice cold tea.......God would not say I wish you would reject me and be against me (cold)......and Willie's statement above is right on.......!

 

[dcontroversal]

Straddling a fence takes effort. Indifference lacks effort. It even lacks the knowledge of needing effort for something. Ever see someone you don't know wearing an unremarkable hat? Our reaction to that is indifference.

My statement was not made toward someone and a stupid hat....it was indicative of making a stand on biblical principles and it takes no effort to stand in the middle without choosing to make a stand! You are either for and with God..or you are against him...

Just like Moses and Korah's rebellion....they had to chose one side or another....there was no middle ground!

 

[KennethC]

You need to re-evaluate that verse without your lose your salvation theology....the idea is to be refreshing like a cup of hot coffee or a glass of ice cold tea.......God would not say I wish you would reject me and be against me (cold)......and Willie's statement above is right on.......!

The context their is Jesus saying you are completely in the faith and your works show it or you are completely not in the faith and your works show that, He would rather you be one way or the other instead of trying to serve both Him and flesh.

Because the lukewarm claims to be righteous and have love for God, but in truth they are wretched, evil, poor, blind, and naked because the truth is not in them. As even Paul says in Titus that there will be those who profess to know God but in works they deny Him, being disobedient and abominable, and will be disqualified for every good work.

Even Apostle John says and shows that love is to be shown in more then just words.........1 John 3:18

 

[elf3]

I cannot prove this Biblical, but I think "indifferent" is the opposite of love. We know what it is to love. That's a good feeling.

We instantly jump to hate, because it is the other end of love. There's a fiery passion in hate like there is a fiery passion in love. I hate liver. I hate the dementia that is taking my father away from me. I hate what some people have done to me in my life.

But notice: it takes several forms. In truth, I don't really hate liver. I sincerely dislike the taste and feel of it. It's nothing personal. It's just a saying. I'm not indifferent to it though, because I have a strong opinion about it and it is not favorable. On the other hand, I'm not entirely against it. Sure, no way, no how you're ever going to get me to eat it unless you put a gun to my head, but that would tip the scales on how I feel about you. At that point in time, I'd hate you.

I do hate dementia. It's insidious. It steals a person's mind. It's personal.

I do hate what people have done to me too. I hate the guys who raped me because they were indifferent to me. It was nothing personal -- just a warm female body on a particular night.

That's the thing about hate. I don't hate Iranians, as I'm supposed to as a good Americans. They've done nothing against me. They've done nothing against my country, so I have nothing against them. (This is not to be confused with how I feel about the Iranian government. Them I hate, with a passion, and for viable reasons.)

Hate is when someone does something we more than merely seriously dislike in a personal way. It is caused because we care, one way or another, about that person.

Indifference is lack of care. I've long thought indifference is the opposite of love and hate. And notice the Bible talks about those who love God or hate him. Indifference isn't really something in the Bible, because God brings out the fiery for all people -- in a good way or bad way. No one is indifferent to God. We either hate him or love him, and if we aren't chosen by him, it's always hate.

I personally believe you are correct. I think indifference is the opposite of love. Most pit hate as opposite love but I think it is indifference.

The word indifference doesn't appear in the Bible but we can find a few examples of what happens when we become indifferent. Rev 3:16 is a good example as how God views indifference. It almost seems that indifference towards God is worse than hatred of God. Hatred of God usually stems from a past experience. Indifference to God stems from a lack of cencern.

The polar opposite of Rev 3:16 is John 3:16. In my studies of this I found this quite interesting.

 

[atwhatcost]

My statement was not made toward someone and a stupid hat....it was indicative of making a stand on biblical principles and it takes no effort to stand in the middle without choosing to make a stand! You are either for and with God..or you are against him...

Just like Moses and Korah's rebellion....they had to chose one side or another....there was no middle ground!

You came in loud and clear on that. That's not where I disagreed. My disagreement was calling that "indifference." I don't think there is such a position, biblically nor with God. The only people trying to straddle the fence are people who hate God but pretend they don't just in case there is an eternal wonderland vacation plan. And they aren't really straddling. They're on the wrong side of the fence, and they hate God. They aren't indifferent even if they say they are.

 

[sydlit]

^Indifference is lack of care. I've long thought indifference is the opposite of love and hate.^-'atwhatcost' .
--- Exactly! And that's why it's so destructive. And though most might not see it this way, it's a form of bullying, and is often used to make someone hurt or feel 'less than'. What I 'hate' about myself sometimes, is even knowing how much this hurts, as I've been victim many, Many times, I still find myself having the same attitude at times, and I don't know why, except to say that maybe being treated as if you don't matter or are an outcast, even from the body of Christ, can lead to a 'who cares anyway' attitude. I hate to admit it, but when I see in the news that someone 'went postal' (sorry, Dan), whether on classmates, family, or strangers, I can sometimes understand. I would Never agree with these crimes or sins, and I thank God for His Grace to keep me from committing those acts, but I often wonder what drives a person to such hateful vengeance, and I bet it's often rooted in indifference to their feelings which manifested in bullying or violence or just plain ignorance or ostracising. The victim then may become the perpetrator, and seek satisfaction thru vengeance. It's wrong, but I think I get it , a little , maybe? It's one reason it's SO important to KNOW God loves us and will NEVER leave us or forsake us, no matter what others may think, or say, or do. And we need to somehow communicate this to others (which may lead to yet another 'assurance of salvation' debate thread). But this can be difficult to convey when the world, the enemy, our own flesh, and sometimes even the 'church' tells us otherwise. FORGIVENESS! A SAVIOUR! It's what we all need. It's what we all have, in Jesus, and none other. Let whosoever will come and partake of the water of life freely (sorry for the rough interpretation of Rev.22:17) Father in Heaven, please forgive me when I have times of indifference. When I thirst, may it be for, and satisfied by, Your love, grace, mercy, truth , peace and joy in Jesus Christ, the True and Living God our Saviour. Amen.

 

[dcontroversal]

The context their is Jesus saying you are completely in the faith and your works show it or you are completely not in the faith and your works show that, He would rather you be one way or the other instead of trying to serve both Him and flesh.

Because the lukewarm claims to be righteous and have love for God, but in truth they are wretched, evil, poor, blind, and naked because the truth is not in them. As even Paul says in Titus that there will be those who profess to know God but in works they deny Him, being disobedient and abominable, and will be disqualified for every good work.

Even Apostle John says and shows that love is to be shown in more then just words.........1 John 3:18

The bolded above in Titus is wrong and that is not what it states...it states and uses the word reprobate...which is VOID....not disqualified and what I said stands....the hot and or cold carries the idea of refreshing unto the Lord as NO WHERE does he desire someone to be evil and or void of good works......your view is in error!