Is anyone else sick and tired of Competitive Christianity?

[Angela53510]

Woe! I had no idea we were now arguing about how many days Jesus was in the grave!

The explanation is very simple. In Hebrew tradition, ANY part of one day is considered to be a day. SO:

1. Jesus died on a Friday
2. Was in the tomb on Saturday.
3. Rose from the grave on Sunday

One, two, three days.

I had a legalistic friend who was trying to correspond Jonah being in the belly of the fish three days and three nights, with Jesus death and resurrection. Being resourceful, he actually went to a Jewish temple and asked a rabbi (who did NOT believe in Jesus) and he told him this, reassuring him that Jesus died on Friday and was raised from the dead on a Sunday.

As for me, I learned it in Seminary. Not quite as authoritative as a Jewish rabbi, but the truth, none the less!

 

[just-me]

Woe! I had no idea we were now arguing about how many days Jesus was in the grave!

The explanation is very simple. In Hebrew tradition, ANY part of one day is considered to be a day. SO:

1. Jesus died on a Friday
2. Was in the tomb on Saturday.
3. Rose from the grave on Sunday

One, two, three days.

I had a legalistic friend who was trying to correspond Jonah being in the belly of the fish three days and three nights, with Jesus death and resurrection. Being resourceful, he actually went to a Jewish temple and asked a rabbi (who did NOT believe in Jesus) and he told him this, reassuring him that Jesus died on Friday and was raised from the dead on a Sunday.

As for me, I learned it in Seminary. Not quite as authoritative as a Jewish rabbi, but the truth, none the less!

This might help, for this was the calendar year we are talking about.

John 19:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

(above)This happened on the 14th and was the day before the annual Passover Sabbath.
(below) verse 56 was the day after the Passover Sabbath

Luke 23:55-56 (KJV)
[SUP]55 [/SUP]And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.
[SUP]56 [/SUP]And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

(above) is the weekly Sabbath in which they rested. My God bless you.

Luke 24:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

 

[just-me]

But you said Jesus died on wed, not thursday, SO, why did you not count wed's night? and wed's day? That makes 4 days and 4 nights.! Am I studid? or are you fuging on the truth? (not saying the whole truth of your position to blind your readers? Let me assume your motive is not to "blind", So, then I have to say, you still are not telling the whole number of the days and nights in your wed death of Jesus position. Why? are you not telling the whole truth.? hoffco

I don't want to confuse you brother. That certainly is not my intention. Confusion is not of God. In Biblical terms the day begins at sundown. There is no night at the end of the day, there is always nighttime at he beginning of the next 24 hour period counting that as the beginning of the day. When the Bible says at even, or twilight, it is referring to the next day following the one that is mentioned.

 

[Hoffco]

But you said Jesus died on wed, not thursday, SO, why did you not count wed's night? and wed's day? That makes 4 days and 4 nights.! Am I studid? or are you fuging on the truth? (not saying the whole truth of your position to blind your readers? Let me assume your motive is not to "blind", So, then I have to say, you still are not telling the whole number of the days and nights in your wed death of Jesus position. Why? are you not telling the whole truth.? hoffco

 

[Hoffco]

My apolotogy to all, my computer ate my last post and send a previous post in its place. SORRY. My last post was a last plea with just-me, to count his days, and a thank you to angels53510 for her post on my position of Jesus death on Fri.. I will drop this issue, unless someone wants to continue it. There is no use tring to teach truth to anyone whose mind is so closed to the truth. Love to all., Hoffco

 

[JaumeJ]

When we read the expression on the third or on the second day it can be all or part of the second day, however the Lunar calendar is only lunar according to the months, while a full day is still 24 hours.

 

[just-me]

So we see how controversy shows up. I know what thread I read this on yesterday, and it was clear what this person was saying. It went like this....(quote) "The law is not the means needed as a schoolmaster to lead to Christ, for the Word became flesh and we have the record to believe and follow."

This person will refuse acknowledging that Paul wrote to Galatia after the Holy Spirit was given, and the schoolmaster was endorsed afterwards. Galatians 3:24-25

Another statement went something like this, clearly advocating that the Old Testament isn't necessary for instruction anymore because of the new covenant. They wrote this to the best of my recollection........ 'The laws of God are situational. We now have the law of liberty, and the laws are now modified according to our personal choice.'

I now see that scripture will not be able to prove the truth to people like this anymore. I appears that the truth will not suffice because it is hated. (Matthew 8:22) This is clearly a "falling away."

This is where competitive Christianity begins, and it will get worse until Jesus comes in the clouds to gather His elect. I direct attention to the professing (who are really not) Christian realm, that some have actually replaced the truth with deception, demanding others to follow suite, and if not the belittling starts by taking bits and pieces of scripture out of context. True believers are incapable to follow this path. No matter how scripture is presented, it will always be refused by this persuasion.

I truly hope that I don't see God's judgment on these people who are destined to an eternal death. It is so sad.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[JaumeJ]

Yes, experts without the benefit of the Holy Spirit have the strong belief that the Tanakh is relegated to being a bunch of hooey because the New Testament has replaced it.

The Tanakh contains the New Testament, and speaks of Yeshua throughout. I am sure anyone understanding the New Testament, I speak of the Book, and truly believes is most likely always going to be right in the sight of God, but I know that person will obey all that Yeshua teaches, including His commandments and His Example.

 

[john832]

A few minutes reading through posts in this forum reveals a spirit of competitiveness that screams "disunity". It matches the world of denominations and the secondary issues that seem to divide everyone so easily, and often produce un-Christian responses. Take the MacArthur "Strange Fire" conference a few months ago--What was the point? Wouldn't a conference on LOVE have rocked out like nobody's business? Isn't that Paul's entire point in 1 Cor 12? I'm speaking of that chapter as an extended comparison.

We will start a thread with an appearance of theological or doctrinal merit, and it will generate some discussion. But, eventually the thread morphs into our sin and it is unmasked to be a hook designed to catch someone with an opposing view swimming along. So then you have to assume that some underlying motivation inside says, "What I believe is right and I'm going to show all those out there who don't believe it that they are wrong." Three cheers for pride and self-seeking. And even now as I type this I must reckon with the "why" of my own thinking what I have, typing this and actually pressing "submit"? What am I after?

I'm tired of being critical and judgmental and I'm sick of turning everything into a competition of who knows more, believes more, etc. I fail to let love be my main focus every time a JW comes to my door and I'm always furious at myself after because I eventually show judgment instead of grace. I'm tired of it in me and in the rest of Christianity. We are constantly sinning against God and against ourselves and we rarely admit the fact that we turn God's grace into a debate war as to who "really" gets it. None of us get it...He just gives it to all of us.

I apologize for any rantish elements seen above. I'm hoping I am not the only one tired of all this competitiveness that only reveals that as we look at 2014 and the moral fabric of our world literally coming to an end in front of our eyes, we're still stuck in the same sin of the body that we were in the first church.

OK, then it is settled. Everyone here subscirbes to what I believe and we are all one. That work for you? The purpose of a board such as this is to discuss our differences of belief. If you think we should all be unified, then I will tell everyone what to believe and all will follow me. Yeah, and I rode in here on a wagon load of turnips.

 

[just-me]

A few minutes reading through posts in this forum reveals a spirit of competitiveness that screams "disunity". It matches the world of denominations and the secondary issues that seem to divide everyone so easily, and often produce un-Christian responses. Take the MacArthur "Strange Fire" conference a few months ago--What was the point? Wouldn't a conference on LOVE have rocked out like nobody's business? Isn't that Paul's entire point in 1 Cor 12? I'm speaking of that chapter as an extended comparison.

We will start a thread with an appearance of theological or doctrinal merit, and it will generate some discussion. But, eventually the thread morphs into our sin and it is unmasked to be a hook designed to catch someone with an opposing view swimming along. So then you have to assume that some underlying motivation inside says, "What I believe is right and I'm going to show all those out there who don't believe it that they are wrong." Three cheers for pride and self-seeking. And even now as I type this I must reckon with the "why" of my own thinking what I have, typing this and actually pressing "submit"? What am I after?

I'm tired of being critical and judgmental and I'm sick of turning everything into a competition of who knows more, believes more, etc. I fail to let love be my main focus every time a JW comes to my door and I'm always furious at myself after because I eventually show judgment instead of grace. I'm tired of it in me and in the rest of Christianity. We are constantly sinning against God and against ourselves and we rarely admit the fact that we turn God's grace into a debate war as to who "really" gets it. None of us get it...He just gives it to all of us.

I apologize for any rantish elements seen above. I'm hoping I am not the only one tired of all this competitiveness that only reveals that as we look at 2014 and the moral fabric of our world literally coming to an end in front of our eyes, we're still stuck in the same sin of the body that we were in the first church.

This is the OP

OK, then it is settled. Everyone here subscirbes to what I believe and we are all one. That work for you? The purpose of a board such as this is to discuss our differences of belief. If you think we should all be unified, then I will tell everyone what to believe and all will follow me. Yeah, and I rode in here on a wagon load of turnips.

And now we have a controversy in a thread that started as one being sick of controversy. I started a thread once that was called "I'm sick of Arguing" and it had to be closed down because it became argumentative over the top. This is clearly agitation. Stop it!!!!!!!

Ephesians 4:2-16 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
[SUP]5 [/SUP]One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.


Ephesians 4:2-16 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
[SUP]16 [/SUP]From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

 

[john832]

This is the OP



And now we have a controversy in a thread that started as one being sick of controversy. I started a thread once that was called "I'm sick of Arguing" and it had to be closed down because it became argumentative over the top. Stop it!!!!!!!

Ephesians 4:2-16 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
[SUP]5 [/SUP]One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.


Ephesians 4:2-16 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
[SUP]16 [/SUP]From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

The whole point of my post is whose truth do you accept? A forum like this will NEVER have 100% agreement. You did not even agree with my post, os we are in disagreement. There can never be 100% agreement in a discussion forum such as this. This is not where you come to find everyone in agreement, you come here to discuss differing views.

 

[just-me]

The whole point of my post is whose truth do you accept? A forum like this will NEVER have 100% agreement. You did not even agree with my post, os we are in disagreement. There can never be 100% agreement in a discussion forum such as this. This is not where you come to find everyone in agreement, you come here to discuss differing views.

So why does your statement advocate division? That's what I read. So there won't be 100% agreement, I agree. That's true, but as a believer in the Word of God why not separate yourself from controversy? There is nothing saying you have to participate.

2 Corinthians 6:16-18 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Isaiah 52:11 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean thing; go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the LORD.

Isaiah 43:8-9 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth.

 

[john832]

So why does your statement advocate division? That's what I read. So there won't be 100% agreement, I agree. That's true, but as a believer in the Word of God why not separate yourself from controversy? There is nothing saying you have to participate.

2 Corinthians 6:16-18 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Isaiah 52:11 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean thing; go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the LORD.

Isaiah 43:8-9 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth.

Explain to me how you will promote unity with those who say the Commandments are done away while others say the Commandments are in force. There are those who say OSAS and those who say no. this is a discussion board, not a yes board.

 

[just-me]

Explain to me how you will promote unity with those who say the Commandments are done away while others say the Commandments are in force. There are those who say OSAS and those who say no. this is a discussion board, not a yes board.

Yeshua told the truth, and knew that it wouldn't be accepted in many cases. We will know who wants to accept the truth, and who doesn't by their fruit. Our Lord spent more time promoting the truth to those who would accept it. If He wouldn't have done that, the ones that wanted the truth would have been neglected.

Matthew 13:13-23 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Isaiah 6:9-12 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the LORD have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.

We are in the "falling away." You and I already know who will never accept the truth. The truth has been revealed by both of us in many ways, and has gone unheeded on purpose. Walk away from these people. If they don't have anybody to argue with, they will loose their entertainment and maybe, just maybe, there can start to be some real edification for those who really want the truth. You have the capability to edify those people who want it. Do as Yeshua did. Love as He loved.

 

[Hoffco]

just-me, If you can't take the heat,get out of the kitchen,retire to your den, as a good LION, and do yuor groooowing to your own kind. LOL I Iove it when you qoute scripture, and then I watch you make false conclusions, out of context, and shot yourself in the foot.LOL . please, if you can't take heat, just listen,qoute Bible and don't condemn. But please hang in here with us and try to learn something better than what you have . You can condemmn me to Hell, if you wish, but, God is not listening to you; Jesus will judge me, not you. LOL I love the same LORD as you. I hope?<.?? Hoffco

 

[john832]

We are in the "falling away." You and I already know who will never accept the truth. The truth has been revealed by both of us in many ways, and has gone unheeded on purpose. Walk away from these people. If they don't have anybody to argue with, they will loose their entertainment and maybe, just maybe, there can start to be some real edification for those who really want the truth. You have the capability to edify those people who want it. Do as Yeshua did. Love as He loved.

Actually, I find myself corrected by this. Thank you.

 

[Hoffco]

I wish to thank John832 for your common sense approach ; without this fredom to diolgue we will all go into the dark ages ,with the muslims ruling the world. The competiction is good for the truth to servive. Hoffco

 

[iamsoandso]

as for the o.p i think there are good examples of the same in the scripture. in acts 15 barnabas and paul go to the apostles and elders with questions concerning the law and circumcision. so it shows in scripture there is a certain process of the christian body gathering together to "debate the teachings/scripture" on the matters of god. in chapter 16 barnabas and paul had a disagreement as to mark and went into two different directions teaching. luke and mark it is said were offended in the understanding of "eat my flesh and drink my blood".

Now we even as these seem at times not to agree on the fine details of the scripture(as to their exact meaning/application) and we are none of us more or less than those men before us in similar matters. it seems that the Holy spirit seeing we would find ourselves in this position in these days set forth to record these men and at times their differences with the intention that we see that we would at times do the same. there is a bonding love that these men before us were gifted with, although they did differ still remained together in the Gospel. that is we know whether paul withstood peter to his face,or in the years to come paul stated that mark was help to him,or if barnabas was to come to them they receive him.

so whether we have different opinions at times we the same are again bonded by the same love. and whether we again differ again we should remain in the same bond of love. i also at times do not fully agree with opinions,at times i agree with half of the opinion. i also understand that i may say things and no man might agree,or with a portion.

here is the issue that is the same as with the Christians before us,i will continue in my love for you. if you offend me i will hold you to my heart and have faith that in that day we will agree,that is maybe that day the lord will tell us both we did not see it fully and this is why we disagreed. so then if we both misunderstood a little here and there and needed correction from god then we would have great need to deliver Patience and love one to the other,,,I am in the midst of loving you,

 

[just-me]

just-me, If you can't take the heat,get out of the kitchen,retire to your den, as a good LION, and do yuor groooowing to your own kind. LOL I Iove it when you qoute scripture, and then I watch you make false conclusions, out of context, and shot yourself in the foot.LOL . please, if you can't take heat, just listen,qoute Bible and don't condemn. But please hang in here with us and try to learn something better than what you have . You can condemmn me to Hell, if you wish, but, God is not listening to you; Jesus will judge me, not you. LOL I love the same LORD as you. I hope?<.?? Hoffco

I don't think that will be having to contend with the heat.

Luke 4:3-4 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Deuteronomy 8:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

It's the Law. If you want to forsake it, then suffer the heat. I don't like knowing that, but it's not my choice, it's God's.

 

[38miles]

There were a few catalysts in the starting of this thread, with one of them being my own struggle with being critical or possibly judgmental at times. When it comes to primary issues of doctrine in our theology, it will inevitably get ugly. This is inevitable because we our faith identity is so tied to our understanding and perception.

Not long after this thread started I posted in two different threads regarding the Aminian/Calvin divide on salvation. In a short time I found myself keep coming back to those, repeating my beliefs, becoming critical...and literally contributing to a snowball of division. The division was there in the first place...we just decided to magnify it. This is the exact competitive nature that this thread said I was sick of. I am sick of it, but I keep falling into it. ARGH, Romans 7:19, what gives?

Levity aside, I think we all need to be repentant often while on these boards, whether from critical spirits, pride, arrogance, false intentions, etc.

Jer 9:9-10,"The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it?
I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings. "