Is anyone else sick and tired of Competitive Christianity?

[Hoffco]

To Jusd-me, Sorry .I have to disagree with you on Jesus' rest day. Jesus rested (from His work in the spirit on the sabbath 7th day) , on the 1st. day Sunday. Jesus was preaching to the spirits of the dead (1Pet.3:18-19) on the sabbath day (Sat) and Jesus rose on the 1st day, (Sun,) for His rest. Heb.4:10: God rested on Sat. Jesus rested on Sun.. Without the resurrection, Jesus work was incomplete. not done. NO salvation with out the resurrection. The REST that Jesus will gives us ,is the eternal REST on the New Earth. So, Jesus work is still not done. until , He brings the New Jerusalem to the new earth, this is the RESTING place for ALL the People of God. The new earth, Rev.21-22. Heb. 4:4:3 teaches that we who believe have only BEGUN to enter our eternal rest. and we will not fully enter, until ALL the saved are together on the new earth. Hoffco

 

[just-me]

To Jusd-me, Sorry .I have to disagree with you on Jesus' rest day. Jesus rested (from His work in the spirit on the sabbath 7th day) , on the 1st. day Sunday. Jesus was preaching to the spirits of the dead (1Pet.3:18-19) on the sabbath day (Sat) and Jesus rose on the 1st day, (Sun,) for His rest. Heb.4:10: God rested on Sat. Jesus rested on Sun.. Without the resurrection, Jesus work was incomplete. not done. NO salvation with out the resurrection. The REST that Jesus will gives us ,is the eternal REST on the New Earth. So, Jesus work is still not done. until , He brings the New Jerusalem to the new earth, this is the RESTING place for ALL the People of God. The new earth, Rev.21-22. Heb. 4:4:3 teaches that we who believe have only BEGUN to enter our eternal rest. and we will not fully enter, until ALL the saved are together on the new earth. Hoffco

Jesus spent a full three days and nights in the grave. It is a perfect correlation to Exodus chapter 14. Jesus died on the 14th day of the first month and raised in the 18th, the first day of the following week. 3 days and 3 nights as Jonah in the belly of the fish. Passover is the 14th in Exodus

 

[Hoffco]

What I was taught,and I believe, Jesus died on friday afternoon, died at 3pm. was buried just before sundown, (maybe,He was in the grave for one or two hrs before the sat. sab. began at dark. then, on Sat., Jesus went to sheol and preached to the spirits in prison, to anouning His death and preparing the dead saints,(adam eve, Davith Ruth,etc.) for their soon transfer to Heaven ,where He would take them when He ascended back to the Father in 40 days, just before Penticost. And Jesus rose from the dead on our Sat. night, which would be the 1st. day of the week, for the Jews. SO, Jesus was only about ,less than 30 hrs in the grave. This way His body would not have had time to rot, decay. This interpretation fits the Bible better than Jesus dying on wed. . The passover feast started on Fri. night that yr. so sat. would have been a double holy sab.. Jesus died on the "preparation day", Friday, and sat. was the 1st. day of the passover. AS the priest would not go into the gentile court and be defilied for the passover supper that night, Fri, night. Hoffco

 

[Elizabeth619]

A few minutes reading through posts in this forum reveals a spirit of competitiveness that screams "disunity". It matches the world of denominations and the secondary issues that seem to divide everyone so easily, and often produce un-Christian responses. Take the MacArthur "Strange Fire" conference a few months ago--What was the point? Wouldn't a conference on LOVE have rocked out like nobody's business? Isn't that Paul's entire point in 1 Cor 12? I'm speaking of that chapter as an extended comparison.

We will start a thread with an appearance of theological or doctrinal merit, and it will generate some discussion. But, eventually the thread morphs into our sin and it is unmasked to be a hook designed to catch someone with an opposing view swimming along. So then you have to assume that some underlying motivation inside says, "What I believe is right and I'm going to show all those out there who don't believe it that they are wrong." Three cheers for pride and self-seeking. And even now as I type this I must reckon with the "why" of my own thinking what I have, typing this and actually pressing "submit"? What am I after?

I'm tired of being critical and judgmental and I'm sick of turning everything into a competition of who knows more, believes more, etc. I fail to let love be my main focus every time a JW comes to my door and I'm always furious at myself after because I eventually show judgment instead of grace. I'm tired of it in me and in the rest of Christianity. We are constantly sinning against God and against ourselves and we rarely admit the fact that we turn God's grace into a debate war as to who "really" gets it. None of us get it...He just gives it to all of us.

I apologize for any rantish elements seen above. I'm hoping I am not the only one tired of all this competitiveness that only reveals that as we look at 2014 and the moral fabric of our world literally coming to an end in front of our eyes, we're still stuck in the same sin of the body that we were in the first church.

That is pretty much why I don't come on here much anymore.

 

[JaumeJ]

Keep in mind this is a forum. People come from many denominations with ideas from each's doctrine. It is a forum, not a theology or an assembly, therefore there will be disputes, some fiery perhaps, but this is good for those strong in the faith.

There is a saying, what does not kill you makes you stronger. I am so grateful for the people here, all of them. I suppose everyone has the same feelings I do in regard to what they are sharing. Why are others not understanding what I am saying? Why the hostility? Simple, one's own experience leads to prejudices galore.

I am grateful because I see there is family in many of the theologies of man who do have much to contribute. No, I do not, nor am I able to go along with all that is put forth here, after all, Yeshua (Jesus) comes to each of us in the manner needed for each one of us: He is that personal, but if you all will notice, the points of differences do not have anything to do with our salvation and His gospel, that is, unless they cause the individual to condemn others for not being with them.

The contributions of others have helped me so much in understanding grace and obedience so much more, not that I would ever have ignored these points in the past. Thanks to all the true family here, from whatever is your theology, for helping others on the Way in Yeshua....God bless you all, amen.

That is pretty much why I don't come on here much anymore.

 

[Nautilus]

your dates are fairly exact for something most scholars havent even figured out. It makes it a bit fishy.

 

[just-me]

What I was taught,and I believe, Jesus died on friday afternoon, died at 3pm. was buried just before sundown, (maybe,He was in the grave for one or two hrs before the sat. sab. began at dark. then, on Sat., Jesus went to sheol and preached to the spirits in prison, to anouning His death and preparing the dead saints,(adam eve, Davith Ruth,etc.) for their soon transfer to Heaven ,where He would take them when He ascended back to the Father in 40 days, just before Penticost. And Jesus rose from the dead on our Sat. night, which would be the 1st. day of the week, for the Jews. SO, Jesus was only about ,less than 30 hrs in the grave. This way His body would not have had time to rot, decay. This interpretation fits the Bible better than Jesus dying on wed. . The passover feast started on Fri. night that yr. so sat. would have been a double holy sab.. Jesus died on the "preparation day", Friday, and sat. was the 1st. day of the passover. AS the priest would not go into the gentile court and be defilied for the passover supper that night, Fri, night. Hoffco

God bless you brother.
I understand what you are saying, but one must compare the Passover on Jesus' day with the first Passover because God doesn't change according to Malachi. Jesus was crucified on the 14th day of the first month as mentioned in Exodus 12, as is our Passover lamb. On the 10th day of the month Jesus entered Jerusalem which was a Sabbath day, and that was when the lamb in Exodus 12 was secured. They broke the legs of the thieves, and confirm Jesus' death with a spear because they didn't want anybody hanging on the cross during the Passover annual Sabbath. The day after Passover the women bought and prepared spices to anoint the body of Jesus. Then they rested on the weekly Sabbath which was the 17th. On the 18th of the month that came to the tomb and found the stone rolled away. From the Passover on the 15th, to the day before the following week would be the 17th, and then we can count 3 days and nights. Jesus was killed on the 14th, and as the sun went down (starting the 15th day) He was buried. He rose before the sun came up on the 18th day. There are three days between the 14th, and the 18th.

John 19:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. (the High day was the yearly Passover celebration, it was the 15th)

Luke 23:50-55 (KJV)
[SUP]50 [/SUP]And, behold, there was a man named Joseph, a counsellor; and he was a good man, and a just:
[SUP]51 [/SUP](The same had not consented to the counsel and deed of them he was of Arimathaea, a city of the Jews: who also himself waited for the kingdom of God.
[SUP]52 [/SUP]This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.
[SUP]53 [/SUP]And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
[SUP]54 [/SUP]And that day was the preparation, (this is the yearly Passover Sabbath) and the sabbath drew on.
[SUP]55 [/SUP]And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.

The women had to buy the spices and work to prepare them on a day that was not the Sabbath, so we now understand that this day of preparing the spices was surely the day between the annual Passover, and the last day of the week being the weekly Sabbath. This is important to know for Jesus had to fulfill everything in perfect sequence according to our Father in heaven.
[SUP]
[/SUP]Luke 23:56 (KJV) [SUP]
56 [/SUP]And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
They rested on the last day of teh week, and of course that is a Sabbath.
John 20:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

Matthew 27:63-64 (KJV)
[SUP]63 [/SUP]Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.
[SUP]64 [/SUP]Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.

 

[just-me]

I posted this on the thread called "Attack of the Judaizers." I thought it would be good to post this in this thread also for edifications sake.

I think, for Christ’s sake, it would be good for all who have witnessed contention, to contemplate how it starts in the first place. My thoughts are that "Attack of the Judaizers" was started to instigate competition in respect to instilling an attitude of “I must win” between believers in Christ. It was started with the intention of trying to prove that God intended to replace the law and the prophets through Christ instead of completing everything through Christ. My thoughts are that this thread was started for that intention of exacerbating division rather than enhance togetherness as the Word of God clearly portrays.

The end result of this thread has had no effect in bringing God’s children together but rather has done just the opposite. I think that the only reason for this thread was to show a division that has existed for decades, and even makes the gulf wider than it was before. With compassion in my heart, the person that started this thread may not even realize the detriment that is being propagated again and again because of this wide gulf.

I think this impasse has everything to do with concentrating on the physical aspects of the Old Testament rather than the spiritual aspects. I have tried my best to define spiritual aspects as most others have done, but the conversations always divert back to physical rhetoric, and the spiritual understanding is lost. That is exactly opposite of the fulfillment of Jesus Christ. I would suggest that it is easy to see one’s intention when propagating condemnation of the physical yet bringing it up time after time for the purpose of continuing arguments.

2 Timothy 2:15-16 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Romans 16:17-18 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

We know who is behind this. When Jesus was in the wilderness during the 40 days, being temped by Satan, everything Jesus said to resist him was out of the book of Deuteronomy which is part of the Mosaic Law. (Deuteronomy 6:13-16, and 8:3) Why degrade it when it has so much power?

James 4:6-8 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify yourhearts, ye double minded.​

 

[Hoffco]

The difficulty with a chatroom is ,we don't SEE the person we are chating with. Body language is missing. Of course, if a person calls you stupid, you could get angry, but you don't have to! Our reaction can then snowball,SO , we need to not react in KIND, react with just the truth, of God's words, and ignore the "bad" words. Some people just talk that way, with a grin or a smile.(my computer has no smiles.???, it is handicaped, i guess?) If I wern't so dumb , I could fix this thing,! So be it! Hoffco

 

[Elizabeth619]

Keep in mind this is a forum. People come from many denominations with ideas from each's doctrine. It is a forum, not a theology or an assembly, therefore there will be disputes, some fiery perhaps, but this is good for those strong in the faith.

There is a saying, what does not kill you makes you stronger. I am so grateful for the people here, all of them. I suppose everyone has the same feelings I do in regard to what they are sharing. Why are others not understanding what I am saying? Why the hostility? Simple, one's own experience leads to prejudices galore.

I am grateful because I see there is family in many of the theologies of man who do have much to contribute. No, I do not, nor am I able to go along with all that is put forth here, after all, Yeshua (Jesus) comes to each of us in the manner needed for each one of us: He is that personal, but if you all will notice, the points of differences do not have anything to do with our salvation and His gospel, that is, unless they cause the individual to condemn others for not being with them.

The contributions of others have helped me so much in understanding grace and obedience so much more, not that I would ever have ignored these points in the past. Thanks to all the true family here, from whatever is your theology, for helping others on the Way in Yeshua....God bless you all, amen.

I agree, and thank you, but sometimes you need to remove yourself from situations when you develop a negative attitude towards your brothers and sisters. Sometimes it is just best to walk away.

 

[Hoffco]

just-me, I am tring to figure out your literal,full, 3 days aqnd 3 nights. Wed. Jesus died ,buried,( 1st. day,) thur. (2nd. day) Fri. (3rd day) Sat. (4th day) Sun. (5th. day); This .seens, to me, to be what you are saying. Wed. Jesus was buried. Thur. was the passover. Fri. the women got spices ready. Sat. was the Sat sabbath day. Sun. the women came to the tomb. This counts 3 full days, and 2 parial days.= 5 days. Which would count to: 72 plus hrs.. could be under or over 80 hrs.. Now? How long does it take a body to start to decay? God did not let Jesus body decay. This was a promise of the Father. A wed. crucificion is just, out of the question, for me; It just doesn't fit with the facts. Thereis a little known fact, of the Jewish way of counting days, that help me accept a Fri. crucificion. They figured ,any part of the day as a whole day, thus, under 30 hrs, could be counted as 3 days and 3 nights. 2hrs on Fri., 24 hrs. on Sat., 2hrs. on Sun., = 28 hrs, But in the jews thinking ,it is 3days and 3 nights. Hoffco

 

[Hoffco]

Elizabeth619 I would like to accept what you are saying: but my problem is, there is a wideness in your mercy, which I don't see in God's mercy. For Jesus, the evil people go to Hell and the good people go to Heaven. I understand these words are not accepted by fundamentalists or liberals tody; But, I believe, this is Jesus teachings. Jh. 5:28-29 ...the good "to the resurrection of life,and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation." Do you believe these words of Jesus?
love to all, Hoffco

 

[iamsoandso]

there is in the law the Sabbath(sundown Friday to sundown Saturday),,there are also other Sabbath's included in the days leading up to passover feast ect, so,,,,,,,

mon,tue,wen(a sabbath),thur,fri,sat(a sabbath)sun. (1st day),,,,so there were "two Sabbaths in that week",,,,,

 

[iamsoandso]

there is in the law the Sabbath(sundown Friday to sundown Saturday),,there are also other Sabbath's included in the days leading up to passover feast ect, so,,,,,,,

mon,tue,wen(a sabbath),thur,fri,sat(a sabbath)sun. (1st day),,,,so there were "two Sabbaths in that week",,,,,

also i should have included Leviticus 23;32,,,,,,,,it is on 7th month 1st day,lev.23;24,,,,,,these are the Sabbaths occuring prior to the sabbath just before the 1st day when Christ was resurrected,,,,

 

[iamsoandso]

here is a kind of ok explanation of the other Sabbaths maybe there are better explanations ,,,,, LUNAR SABBATH

 

[Hoffco]

iamsoconfused! with iamsoandso, Please, tell me on which day of the week was Jesus crucified? What I have been taugh and see in the Bible is that Jesus had the passover on Thursday night,tried that night, (Friday morning) and cricified on Fri. 9am. died on Fri.3pm. buried before sundown Fri. and Jesus rose on Sunday before dawn. The Jews figured that as 3 days and 3 nights, but it was not a literal 3day and 3 nights. There fore Jonah may not have been in the fish for 3 literal days. Hoffco

 

[just_monicat]

just like everything else in life everyone is coming to the table with their own motives (both consciously and subconsciously) and this is another community where your motives and expectations drive the experience that you will have. in life, we typically get what we expect from most opportunities.

if you're feeling insecure and desire an opportunity to feel better about yourself, you can easily compete with others and try to prove something to yourself (or others).
if your desire is to seek chaos and fight, you'll toss a grenade in and start throwing hooks and jabs the first chance you get.
if your desire is to discuss the bible, and learn what others believe about the bible, you'll discover (more than) ample opportunities.
if your desire is to ask questions or help others find answers, you'll find it here, too.
if your desire is to be encouraged and to be encouraging to others, you will certainly find plenty of those chances as well.

the longer i live, the more i believe that it is my own expectations that dictate what i typically get out of life. when i'm really disappointed, it's because my expectations were either way off or i wasn't being honest with myself about what i was looking for.

 

[iamsoandso]

iamsoconfused! with iamsoandso, Please, tell me on which day of the week was Jesus crucified? What I have been taugh and see in the Bible is that Jesus had the passover on Thursday night,tried that night, (Friday morning) and cricified on Fri. 9am. died on Fri.3pm. buried before sundown Fri. and Jesus rose on Sunday before dawn. The Jews figured that as 3 days and 3 nights, but it was not a literal 3day and 3 nights. There fore Jonah may not have been in the fish for 3 literal days. Hoffco

3 nights and 3 days in the grave,,,,raised sun,1st day,,,,so was in the grave,sat night,Fri. night,Thurs. night=3 nights there is daytime sat.(sab.)daytime fri.,daytime thur.= 3days,,,,,

 

[just-me]

just-me, I am tring to figure out your literal,full, 3 days aqnd 3 nights. Wed. Jesus died ,buried,( 1st. day,) thur. (2nd. day) Fri. (3rd day) Sat. (4th day) Sun. (5th. day); This .seens, to me, to be what you are saying. Wed. Jesus was buried. Thur. was the passover. Fri. the women got spices ready. Sat. was the Sat sabbath day. Sun. the women came to the tomb. This counts 3 full days, and 2 parial days.= 5 days. Which would count to: 72 plus hrs.. could be under or over 80 hrs.. Now? How long does it take a body to start to decay? God did not let Jesus body decay. This was a promise of the Father. A wed. crucificion is just, out of the question, for me; It just doesn't fit with the facts. Thereis a little known fact, of the Jewish way of counting days, that help me accept a Fri. crucificion. They figured ,any part of the day as a whole day, thus, under 30 hrs, could be counted as 3 days and 3 nights. 2hrs on Fri., 24 hrs. on Sat., 2hrs. on Sun., = 28 hrs, But in the jews thinking ,it is 3days and 3 nights. Hoffco

The beginning of the day during Bible times was at dusk, or twilight. The Hebrew day is counted from sundown to sundown, or twilight to twilight. The beginning of Passover is when Jesus was buried.

The women got spices the day after Passover and prepared them. They rested on Saturday which was the weekly Sabbath.

If a person calls Wednesday the 14th of the month, and Thursday the Passover, we would say that Jesus was in the grave Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, and then He rose on Sunday, the first day of the following week.

We are dealing with 2 Sabbath days. One "high day" is the 15th which is Passover according to Exodus that was the annual Sabbath, and another Sabbath is the 17th, being the last day of that week.

A partial day is not to be counted, for we know not the time period that it took to get Jesus off the cross and prepared for the tomb. We know not how long it took for the lamb to be prepared, drained of blood that was applied to the door posts, and then cooked. Passover in Exodus was the 15th of the month. Exodus 12. Bless you brother.

Exodus 12:5-6 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.

Exodus 12:12-13 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.

Jesus died at 3 pm on the 14th day. God saw the blood applied that night which starts the 15th day, which is Passover. The lamb was consumed, and the blood remained on the hill of Calvary, as God passed over and saw it.

 

[Hoffco]

But you said Jesus died on wed, not thursday, SO, why did you not count wed's night? and wed's day? That makes 4 days and 4 nights.! Am I studid? or are you fuging on the truth? (not saying the whole truth of your position to blind your readers? Let me assume your motive is not to "blind", So, then I have to say, you still are not telling the whole number of the days and nights in your wed death of Jesus position. Why? are you not telling the whole truth.? hoffco