Is being justified and righteous before God, the same as being forgiven by God?

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K

know1

Senior Member
#1
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
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#1
What do you think?
Does one have to repent of their sins in order for them to be forgiven of their sins for them to be born again.
Does God have to forgive one of their sins in order for them to go to heaven?
Does one have to keep repenting of their sins after they are born again to prevent them from losing their salvation?
What requirements have to be met for one to be justified and made righteous before God?
 
S

starfield

Senior Member
#2
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
#2
know1 said:
What do you think?
Does one have to repent of their sins in order for them to be forgiven of their sins for them to be born again.
Does God have to forgive one of their sins in order for them to go to heaven?
Does one have to keep repenting of their sins after they are born again to prevent them from losing their salvation?
What requirements have to be met for one to be justified and made righteous before God?
Click to expand...
Imputed righteousness and justification is how a sinner is placed in a right relationship with God (born again). It occurs when the sinner repents and believes in the Jesus and they are forgiven irrespective of their past sins; it is essentially God treating the repentant sinner as if they never sinned. Though they don't have any righteousness of their own (Isaiah 64:6) they are declared righteous because of their faith in Christ's atoning sacrifice, and the guilt, penalty, and power of sin is removed. Receiving forgiveness from God is crucial to inherit His kingdom.
Romans 3:26 - To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Romans 4:5-9
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
 
S

svedbygrace

Banned
#3
Jan 21, 2013
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#3
Does one have to repent of their sins in order for them to be forgiven of their sins
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No. Everyone Christ died for is forgiven of all their sins, for His Sake !
 
G

GreenNnice

Guest
#4
#4
know1 said:
What do you think?
Does one have to repent of their sins in order for them to be forgiven of their sins for them to be born again.
Does God have to forgive one of their sins in order for them to go to heaven?
Does one have to keep repenting of their sins after they are born again to prevent them from losing their salvation?
What requirements have to be met for one to be justified and made righteous before God?
Click to expand...
God knows our heart.

Great is the mystery of godliness

We cannot know God's thoughts, but we do have the mind of Christ .

His ways are not our ways and His thoughts are higher than our thoughts.

Don't put this in a legalism perspective, the Lord leads, you GO to Him, confess, listen to that Holy Spirit convicting you to become His, and, let the rest take care of itself, sins ,etc., confess what you know of, and, He will take care of you, that you can be assured of, and, that's the only thing you need to KNOW :)

1 Sam. 16:7
 
A

AmmiAmmiel

Guest
#5
#5
Well,.. Justification and righteousness flow from His forgiveness. So if you haven't been forgiven, you won be producing righteousness or justification. Just as if you haven't been forgiven, you can't believe and repent. All the good works that come from the Christian faith are a matter of forgiveness. If The Lord has chosen to forgive you, these things will be evident in your life. Belief and repentance are the two that come first, then righteousness and justification and more[:
 
E

Elin

Banned
#6
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#6
know1 said:

What requirements have to be met for one to be justified and made righteous before God?
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Faith in Jesus Christ, everything necessary follows from that.
 
A

AmmiAmmiel

Guest
#7
#7
We must keep in mind that faith is a gift given by God and no man can do anything to earn it
 
S

svedbygrace

Banned
#8
Jan 21, 2013
2,004
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#8
Elin said:
Faith in Jesus Christ, everything necessary follows from that.
Click to expand...
The Natural man cannot have Faith in Jesus Christ its impossible for him.

Rom 8:8

So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

The Natural man is in the flesh. Jesus says Jn 3:6-7

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Before a man can exercise Faith in Christ he must be already born again. Faith in Christ is an evidence of havibg been already born anew !
 
S

starfield

Senior Member
#9
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
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#9
Does one have to repent of their sins in order for them to be forgiven of their sins
Click to expand...
svedbygrace said:
No. Everyone Christ died for is forgiven of all their sins, for His Sake !
Click to expand...
That's not what the scripture says, Svedbygrace. To say that God grants forgiveness without repentance is to depreciate Christ's sacrifice on the cross. God does not grant forgiveness to the stiff-necked rebellious people, but those who approach His throne of grace with a humble and contrite heart.
Prov 28:13 - He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.
1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. One has to confess and forsake their sins (repent) to be pardoned and cleansed from all unrighteousness.
Acts 3:19 - Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. Repentance has to occur before sins can be blotted out (forgiven).
 
K

know1

Senior Member
#10
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
#10
starfield said:
Imputed righteousness and justification is how a sinner is placed in a right relationship with God (born again). It occurs when the sinner repents and believes in the Jesus and they are forgiven irrespective of their past sins; it is essentially God treating the repentant sinner as if they never sinned. Though they don't have any righteousness of their own (Isaiah 64:6) they are declared righteous because of their faith in Christ's atoning sacrifice, and the guilt, penalty, and power of sin is removed. Receiving forgiveness from God is crucial to inherit His kingdom.
Romans 3:26 - To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Romans 4:5-9
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Click to expand...
Forgive me for using you as an example but you happen to have brought up part of the reason for this thread.
You start out saying that one has to repent and believe in Jesus and they are forgiven, then say "...they are declared righteous because of their faith in Christ's atoning sacrifice, and the guilt, penalty, and power of sin is removed." [In other words, they are forgiven of their sins, right?]
All of the above scripture given is about faith and believing for one to be declared righteousness before God. Where is the repentance for salvation?
I'm not saying that it isn't in the bible, but if these scriptures and many others that talk about receiving eternal life are to be true, then they should be able to stand as is, without anything being added to it.
For example, the verse below mentions nothing about repentance for one to become a child of God. And yet Jesus says that all scripture is true and must be fulfilled or come to pass. John says even to them that believe on Jesus' name shall become a child of God. Is this scripture incomplete? Does it need help from other verses in the bible to make it the whole truth rather than half a truth? So what is it?
Don't misunderstand me, I am not attacking you by any means, but this is something I have seen for quite some time now, and that being that people will tell you that you have to repent to be saved then almost in the same sentence tell that same person that all they have to do is believe or have faith and they will be saved. I see a slight contradiction in what people believe concerning this subject.
Joh 1:12
 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:


Thanks for you post.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#11
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
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#11
Doesn't true faith include repentace? i.e. to whole heartedly turn to Christ one is at the same time whole heartedly turning their trust from all else. IOW other side of the same coin.
 
B

Bookreader

Banned
#12
Jan 10, 2013
318
4
0
#12
I think the removal of sins is different from atonement for them.

atonement is an understanding between God and man that a sin can be ignored - the sin doesn't go away but is ignored.

All the OT sacrifices for sin were for atonement - but had to be continued as they covered sins before.
The animal sacrificed was gone.

The sacrifice of Jesus was an atonement for sin too - but because Christ lives, that sacrifice can be perpetual and is not needed repeatedly. Jesus became the sacrificial lamb/kid on our behalf. If we try to be like him (to follow him) then he will consider us part of his sacrifice.

He is our mediator - our high priest. He has made the sacrifice.
Belief in him as mediator, high priest and King is what makes his sacrifice applicable to us.

Our sins are overlooked by God - if we are 'in his anointed son'
Use what words you want to use - but that's the end line as far as I can see.
 
Cee

Cee

Senior Member
#13
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
#13
Here is how the Holy Spirit shows me.

We can live a life 2 ways after being changed and beginning to hate sin.

Avoiding sin or chasing love. One is the minimum the other the maximum. One strives, the other receives. One works, the other abides.

I'm a new creation. A child of God. I have the law of love written on my heart. I walk with the mind of Christ, His Spirit. Christ and I are one. He is my Big Brother. I listen to Him daily. I chase Love. I am accepted, approved, and appreciated. Seated with the Christ next to the Father. I am a royal priest. I am anointed. I carry a Kingdom of Power. It transformed me and it transforms others. I am contagious. And I am on fire for Him.

What will you focus on? Knowing that what we focus on we become more like.

C.
 
S

starfield

Senior Member
#14
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
#14
know1 said:
Forgive me for using you as an example but you happen to have brought up part of the reason for this thread.
You start out saying that one has to repent and believe in Jesus and they are forgiven, then say "...they are declared righteous because of their faith in Christ's atoning sacrifice, and the guilt, penalty, and power of sin is removed." [In other words, they are forgiven of their sins, right?]
All of the above scripture given is about faith and believing for one to be declared righteousness before God. Where is the repentance for salvation?
I'm not saying that it isn't in the bible, but if these scriptures and many others that talk about receiving eternal life are to be true, then they should be able to stand as is, without anything being added to it.
For example, the verse below mentions nothing about repentance for one to become a child of God. And yet Jesus says that all scripture is true and must be fulfilled or come to pass. John says even to them that believe on Jesus' name shall become a child of God. Is this scripture incomplete? Does it need help from other verses in the bible to make it the whole truth rather than half a truth? So what is it?
Don't misunderstand me, I am not attacking you by any means, but this is something I have seen for quite some time now, and that being that people will tell you that you have to repent to be saved then almost in the same sentence tell that same person that all they have to do is believe or have faith and they will be saved. I see a slight contradiction in what people believe concerning this subject.
Joh 1:12
 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:


Thanks for you post.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your response, Sir.

Repentance cannot be separated from faith; the person that has turned to the cross in faith has turned their back from unbelief and self (repentance). Just because the book of John does not mention repentance doesn't mean other books that speak of its necessity for salvation are invalid. This is from the Lord Jesus: Mark 1:15 "And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel". When Apostle Paul said "to him that worketh not,..." in Romans 4:5, he didn't mean "to him that repenteth not,...", so what work was he condemning? In the context of that passage 'works' was physical circumcision. Abraham was justified by faith long before he was circumcised nonetheless was circumcised later as a sign of his justification by faith (Romans 4:11), therefore it wasn't his circumcision that justified him, but faith. Thus Paul was always denouncing circumcision for salvation that the Judaizers were upholding and pressurising the Gentiles to do. The scripture says that by the deeds of the law (self-righteous works) shall no flesh be justified because the works of the law does not avail but the blood of Christ that cleanses the repentant sinner's heart. Repentance is not works of the law but the response to God's grace.
 
K

know1

Senior Member
#16
Aug 27, 2012
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#16
crossnote said:
Doesn't true faith include repentace? i.e. to whole heartedly turn to Christ one is at the same time whole heartedly turning their trust from all else. IOW other side of the same coin.
Click to expand...

No. True faith simply believes what God said and acts on it. The fruit of faith brings the desired result, not repentance, unless your faith is in the desired result of repenting. If you believe that nothing will happen if you repent, then you won't bother repenting. If you eat food that you think will harm you, then you did not eat it in faith and you have sinned.
 
K

know1

Senior Member
#17
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
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#17
starfield said:
Thanks for your response, Sir.

Repentance cannot be separated from faith; the person that has turned to the cross in faith has turned their back from unbelief and self (repentance). Just because the book of John does not mention repentance doesn't mean other books that speak of its necessity for salvation are invalid. This is from the Lord Jesus: Mark 1:15 "And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel". When Apostle Paul said "to him that worketh not,..." in Romans 4:5, he didn't mean "to him that repenteth not,...", so what work was he condemning? In the context of that passage 'works' was physical circumcision. Abraham was justified by faith long before he was circumcised nonetheless was circumcised later as a sign of his justification by faith (Romans 4:11), therefore it wasn't his circumcision that justified him, but faith. Thus Paul was always denouncing circumcision for salvation that the Judaizers were upholding and pressurising the Gentiles to do. The scripture says that by the deeds of the law (self-righteous works) shall no flesh be justified because the works of the law does not avail but the blood of Christ that cleanses the repentant sinner's heart. Repentance is not works of the law but the response to God's grace.
Click to expand...


Forgive me for my in ability to properly convey my thoughts. I was referring to repenting from evil works, not from an unbelieving heart, which is what you highlighted in red.
Thank you young lady, for pointing that out to me.
 
K

know1

Senior Member
#18
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
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#18
crossnote said:
Doesn't true faith include repentace? i.e. to whole heartedly turn to Christ one is at the same time whole heartedly turning their trust from all else. IOW other side of the same coin.
Click to expand...

Sorry sir, I should have been more specific and yes, I believe you are correct.
By-the-way, I'm not good with modern acronyms, what does "IOW" mean?
Thanks for your post.
 
S

starfield

Senior Member
#19
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
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#19
know1 said:


Forgive me for my in ability to properly convey my thoughts. I was referring to repenting from evil works, not from an unbelieving heart, which is what you highlighted in red.
Thank you young lady, for pointing that out to me.
Click to expand...
You're welcome. The Holy Spirit begins the work of transformation wherein the sinner forsakes their evil works and all deceitfulness and trusts in Christ as their Saviour. Without the Holy Spirit no one will be able to repent.


 
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svedbygrace

Banned
#20
Jan 21, 2013
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#20
star

That's not what the scripture says
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Yes it does. Where does scripture say it is not true ?

Eph 4:32

And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
 
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