Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?

[Inquistor]

My issue with the KJV bible is that it doesn't recognize the deuterocanonicals books as inspired so in my mind it doesn't represent the true Bible. As a result, I do not reference that bible in any discussions. But, I see where you're coming from.

-Ernie-

One little fact (that seems HILARIOUS to me) is that the "INSPIRED" book of Hebrews contains a brief reference to the FULL STORY, which resided ONLY in the "UNINSPIRED" book of Maccabees!



Faith in Victory and in Death: A Study of Hebrews 11:23-40 | ...
www.gci.org/bible/hebrews11c▼
But other equally great prophets were persecuted to death for that “better resurrection.” The author refers to a story from the Jewish historical book 1 Maccabees, chapter 7. There we are told about seven brothers who were tortured by the Syrian ruler, while their mother reminded them that God would resurrect the faithful ...

 

[Ernie07]

For you it is hard. You must leave all your pride and accomplishments behind. Hard for the very religious to become like a little child and simply believe and trust on Jesus.

Ac 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

Philippian Jailer received the answer believe.

You are unable because you are convinced that you must earn your way into heaven. Well just so you know even the smallest sin will keep you from heaven.

That's in every bible and has nothing to do with transubstantiation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

No, I don't believe that I must earn my way into heaven. No idea how you got there by me quoting Jesus saying there are sins that keep you from heaven and those where you can still get in. Yes, believe...but also don't speak against the Holy Spirit for that will not be forgiven. Or do you think speaking against the Holy Spirit, even though you are "saved", gets you into heaven?

-Ernie-

 

[Inquistor]

Here is the pot calling the kettle black.

A church so called that teaches a man can take the place of Christ on the earth. Sheer lunacy.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

When Jesus was addressing Peter, and Jesus said to Peter, FEED MY SHEEP ... what do YOU think He meant by saying that?


https://www.alltheinternet.com/?q=bible+verse+feed+my+sheep+&ref=12292017100429&p=

 

[Ernie07]

Hello everyone,

We've been going back and forth for awhile and I truly have enjoyed it, but I'd be lying if I didn't say some of the discussion has been frustrating for me...and I'm sure you would probably say the same! With that in mind I wanted to try something where the emotion is removed. Here goes...

For the purposes of this example...Belief = Version of truth; Group = person, people, or organization; Early Christian Church = universal Christian Church of the first 800 years

2 Scenarios:
Belief 1 is held by Group A today with evidence that this belief was held by the early Christian Church
Belief 1 is denied by Group B today with first evidence of denial by any group in the 15th century

Options related to the above scenario:
1) Belief 1 is false...meaning that the early Christian Church got it wrong and taught error. Since this Church exclusively represented all Christians at the time, Jesus failed to protect His Church and the gates of hell did indeed prevail
2) Belief 1 is true

Thoughts?

I'm not trying to be cute. I'm stating facts but just not including specifics so that responses don't use them as well.

-Ernie-

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

let me shoot this question,if catholics aren't Christians.Why do they follow Jesus Christ,and who do the Buddhists pray to and other religions like of Indians,Thailand,and many other. Doesn't God recognize their presence and prayer if they ain't Christians.
We humans ain't supposed to judge who is saved and not.

Who do Buddhists pray to? The clue is in the name. Buddhists do a lot of chanting. As for other religions in India, Hindus, Jains, Sikhs to name some, there are literally hundreds of gods. None of them are The Almighty God of Israel who sent us Messiah.
What gives you the idea that humans shouldn't judge who is saved? God has revealed his plan to man.

 

[Inquistor]

What gives you the idea that humans shouldn't judge who is saved?

Matthew 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged.

 

[Jackson123]

Hello Jackson,

There's much that I agree with in what you say, but what I'd like to focus on is your comment that 100 students go to same school and have different opinions. I use the example of seeing a replay of an event and even then people will come to different conclusions. But, Jesus knew this and that is why He not only built His Church, but said He would protect it. Left to ourselves there is no way we can determine and collectively agree on truth. We are too easily deceived and what we think to be the Holy Spirit is actually our own thoughts. That is why Jesus needed to protect His Church from error. Aligned with His Church and we have unity. Outside of His Church and we have fragmentation. This has played itself out ever since the early 16th century.

I also agree in your statement about not wanting to twist the arm of someone to "force" them to believe. I think we need to speak the truth and then let the Holy Spirit work in us, but as the parable says we need to be "good soil" so that the seeds may grow 30, 60, 100 fold!!!

God Bless!

-Ernie-

thanks Ernie for your nice respon, Jesus protect his church, to me His church do not always a formal church. In His eyes, His church may just 2 or 3 people, informal but pure follow His agenda.

Formal institution may not His church, un formal Gathering AS long AS do His agenda is His church

 

[notuptome]

When Jesus was addressing Peter, and Jesus said to Peter, FEED MY SHEEP ... what do YOU think He meant by saying that?


https://www.alltheinternet.com/?q=bible+verse+feed+my+sheep+&ref=12292017100429&p=

Who are the sheep? Those whom Christ has redeemed. What do they eat? The word of God, heavenly manna.

Peter preach the gospel to those who are saved that they will grow mature and go forth to evangelize the entire world.

The exact same charge to every believer.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

No, I don't believe that I must earn my way into heaven. No idea how you got there by me quoting Jesus saying there are sins that keep you from heaven and those where you can still get in. Yes, believe...but also don't speak against the Holy Spirit for that will not be forgiven. Or do you think speaking against the Holy Spirit, even though you are "saved", gets you into heaven?

-Ernie-

You consider it a sin to believe that you can know you are saved and have full assurance of eternal life with Christ. You believe that if you sin and die your sin will bring you into condemnation. This means that you are not trusting Christ by Gods grace to save you and keep you saved but are making a contribution to your salvation by your works of contrition. You cast doubt upon the word of God.

You say it is speaking against the Holy Spirit but really it is speaking against the catholic church and the false doctrines created by traditions that are against the bible.

Ro 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

One little fact (that seems HILARIOUS to me) is that the "INSPIRED" book of Hebrews contains a brief reference to the FULL STORY, which resided ONLY in the "UNINSPIRED" book of Maccabees!



Faith in Victory and in Death: A Study of Hebrews 11:23-40 | ...
www.gci.org/bible/hebrews11c▼
But other equally great prophets were persecuted to death for that “better resurrection.” The author refers to a story from the Jewish historical book 1 Maccabees, chapter 7. There we are told about seven brothers who were tortured by the Syrian ruler, while their mother reminded them that God would resurrect the faithful ...

Maccabees is where we find the false doctrine of purchasing redemption for departed souls with money given to the priests for prayers for those deceased souls. Simplified into todays false teaching of purgatory. Yeah there's a reason Maccabees is not seen as inspired bible cannon.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Inquistor]

Who are the sheep? Those whom Christ has redeemed. What do they eat? The word of God, heavenly manna.

Peter preach the gospel to those who are saved that they will grow mature and go forth to evangelize the entire world.

The exact same charge to every believer.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

That is a very interesting response, indeed! Let's think about this. Jesus was talking to Peter when He said that! Did Jesus expect that Peter might have a SUCCESSOR some day? What religion was that, back around 33 A.D.?

 

[Inquistor]

Maccabees is where we find the false doctrine of purchasing redemption for departed souls with money given to the priests for prayers for those deceased souls. Simplified into todays false teaching of purgatory. Yeah there's a reason Maccabees is not seen as inspired bible cannon.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Ah-ha! So tell us all, what was the following scripture all about? What SPIRITS were in PRISON, and WHERE was it?


18For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body, but made alive in the spirit, 19in which He also went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, while the ark was being built.


1 Peter 3:19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits--

 

[notuptome]

Ah-ha! So tell us all, what was the following scripture all about? What SPIRITS were in PRISON, and WHERE was it?


18For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body, but made alive in the spirit, 19in which He also went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, while the ark was being built.


1 Peter 3:19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits--

Yo ho in Abrahams bosom. Taken from sheol into heaven.

Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Inquistor]

Ah-ha! So tell us all, what was the following scripture all about? What SPIRITS were in PRISON, and WHERE was it?


18For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body, but made alive in the spirit, 19in which He also went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, while the ark was being built.


1 Peter 3:19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits--

Can anyone GUESS HOW LONG those "SPIRITS" had been in PRISON when Jesus came to them and PREACHED to them ... perhaps 3,000 years?

 

[notuptome]

That is a very interesting response, indeed! Let's think about this. Jesus was talking to Peter when He said that! Did Jesus expect that Peter might have a SUCCESSOR some day? What religion was that, back around 33 A.D.?

Peter is not the head of the church. Every believer is included in the priesthood of Christ.

1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Can anyone GUESS HOW LONG those "SPIRITS" had been in PRISON when Jesus came to them and PREACHED to them ... perhaps 3,000 years?

Time has no value in eternity. Time is only for this temporal world.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Matthew 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged.

That's talking about not judging a brother regarding what is in their heart.

One very much should be able to judge if an entire religion is based on falsehood. One should judge between right and wrong.


KJV
Luke 12
56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?
57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?

 

[notuptome]

Matthew 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged.

Joh 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Inquistor]

One very much should be able to judge if an entire religion is based on falsehood.

At least you got that part right!


https://www.alltheinternet.com/?q=sin+strongly&ref=12282017182951&p=


https://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/DEUTEROS.HTM

 

[Inquistor]

Yo ho in Abrahams bosom. Taken from sheol into heaven.

Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Where was Abraham when Noah was building the ark?


18For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body, but made alive in the spirit, 19in which He also went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, while the ark was being built.