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W
We're going go round in circles on this one aren't we?
There is no way you or anyone can know the full workings of the members of Bethel outside of what you see on Youtube, which can itself be manipulated based on those who are uploading it.
It would be laughed out of a court of law unless you better evidence to back it up. Why do you think professional investigators take the trouble to go see things for themselves.
And if my bible knowledge is up to basics then I'm fairly sure St Paul had already visited the places he wrote to so he was in a good position to write letters in full knowledge of having 'been there'.
There is no way you or anyone can know the full workings of the members of Bethel outside of what you see on Youtube, which can itself be manipulated based on those who are uploading it.
It would be laughed out of a court of law unless you better evidence to back it up. Why do you think professional investigators take the trouble to go see things for themselves.
And if my bible knowledge is up to basics then I'm fairly sure St Paul had already visited the places he wrote to so he was in a good position to write letters in full knowledge of having 'been there'.
You're questioning me? That's one way of announcing to the internet and the world that I'm qualified to teach you're not.
James 3:1 Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.
I'm willing to bet that you don't actually care though and you'll probably just keep going.
2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,
James 3:1 Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.
I'm willing to bet that you don't actually care though and you'll probably just keep going.
2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,
Pro_3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
I love the Truth that GOD has room for our understanding, ie that we can come to HIM and state our points and HE will gladly be like "Mhhh thats true or not" then Being the FATHER that loves it when we Ask HIM on matters will wait when we say .. "Whats your view Lord, or Confirm this Lord or Where am i wrong Lord, and Where am i Right?" And this is what i meant.. There is sooo much heresy out there and without GODs Spirit we can never be too sure on matters. why? Because HE leads us unto that Liberating TRUTH!!. Hallelujah!!..
Glory to the Most High God for revealing to you the nature of Jesus Cultures Church and the word of GOD does indeed say "We shall know them by their fruits". And if their Conferences do not bring More to the Love of Christ, and not only that but if they do not preach a BALANCED GOSPEL ie (of Love, Grace aswell Judgement, Wrath and Condemnation) then THEY NEED TO REPENT OR PERISH!!..
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
Mat 23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Joh_7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
I love the Truth that GOD has room for our understanding, ie that we can come to HIM and state our points and HE will gladly be like "Mhhh thats true or not" then Being the FATHER that loves it when we Ask HIM on matters will wait when we say .. "Whats your view Lord, or Confirm this Lord or Where am i wrong Lord, and Where am i Right?" And this is what i meant.. There is sooo much heresy out there and without GODs Spirit we can never be too sure on matters. why? Because HE leads us unto that Liberating TRUTH!!. Hallelujah!!..
Glory to the Most High God for revealing to you the nature of Jesus Cultures Church and the word of GOD does indeed say "We shall know them by their fruits". And if their Conferences do not bring More to the Love of Christ, and not only that but if they do not preach a BALANCED GOSPEL ie (of Love, Grace aswell Judgement, Wrath and Condemnation) then THEY NEED TO REPENT OR PERISH!!..
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
Mat 23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Joh_7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
E
Astute observations. I have questioned both Toby Mac and Lecrae for similar reasons. Christian music artists who do not have a reverent attitude towards God and a humble attitude towards themselves I would not recommend to anyone. Many of them have not laid their lives down to Christ as of yet. They still are holding onto this world and, I hope, will figure it out before it is too late. But even worse than they themselves holding on to this world, their music convinces other people it is okay to do so.
Sometimes folks forget that they need to be good stewards about every aspect of their lives. Be careful about what you allow into the temple of God. And that temple is you.
Sometimes folks forget that they need to be good stewards about every aspect of their lives. Be careful about what you allow into the temple of God. And that temple is you.
E
A bit of going around in circles. But mostly because you insist Youtube cannot be trusted, seemingly just because there are funny cat videos on there. It's not just a place for blogs and funny videos. I also use Youtube videos to learn how to fix my car, cook, and to hear sermons. So if Youtube videos can be reliable in these instances, how come it can't be reliable in this one?
Investigators actually do check Youtube. One guy even recently released a confession to a murder on Youtube and was arrested because of it.
Yes, Paul visited the places, but he did not always visit every time a new instance of sin came up. Neither, I imagine, did he visit every supposed heretic to prove if they were heretics or not.
Your advocation of wearing a spiritual blindfold is unbiblical and more post-modern than Christian.
C
As long as the music does this:
Comments on a Jesus Culture video~
Your never failing love removed homosexuality from my life! Thank you Jesus! On and on and on you go and satisfy the deepest desires of my soul.
You remain forever!!
I Needed someone to talk to, the past 3 days have been just full of the hurtful past and all the pain and damage caused by others through all the years in my life and I found you, a stranger that listened to my tears and gave me this to watch besides your simple and short but strong words. I only Know you by your First Name and I didn't see your face but I want to Thank You, Thank you for listening and for not judging me. GOD Bless you! <3
I hear this song, and think of all the things I still haven't confessed
This is helping me get through everything...
The verses are very scriptural. The power is in th Word of God. No matter who's singing it, God already said it.... The verses in there songs show who God is and knowing who God is shine light on th darkness we have. In seeing our sins we see we need a Savior. This results in faith and repentance. Not that I agree with what they're practicing! Just agree on the songs message.
[video=youtube;GoYgi0sdOqc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoYgi0sdOqc[/video]
Comments on a Jesus Culture video~
Your never failing love removed homosexuality from my life! Thank you Jesus! On and on and on you go and satisfy the deepest desires of my soul.
You remain forever!!
I Needed someone to talk to, the past 3 days have been just full of the hurtful past and all the pain and damage caused by others through all the years in my life and I found you, a stranger that listened to my tears and gave me this to watch besides your simple and short but strong words. I only Know you by your First Name and I didn't see your face but I want to Thank You, Thank you for listening and for not judging me. GOD Bless you! <3
I hear this song, and think of all the things I still haven't confessed
This is helping me get through everything...
The verses are very scriptural. The power is in th Word of God. No matter who's singing it, God already said it.... The verses in there songs show who God is and knowing who God is shine light on th darkness we have. In seeing our sins we see we need a Savior. This results in faith and repentance. Not that I agree with what they're practicing! Just agree on the songs message.
[video=youtube;GoYgi0sdOqc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoYgi0sdOqc[/video]
A
Are you sure that Kristian Stanfill is part of Jesus Culture? I can't find any evidence that he is associated with them.
Kristian Stanfill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Kristian Stanfill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
W
You're obviously missing my point.
You can listen to the preaching, approve/disapprove of the worship and ministry style etc. However, none of us can really cast a negative judgement on whether they (corporate or individual) have 'power', visit the sick, affect the world, go home after the music (in the derogatory sense) etc. To make such judgements is quite extraordinary and would only hold up in Kangaroo courts.
I've no doubt there are 'issues' but after spending time with a former member, who had committed a year or so of her time, I can assure you that what you imply in your judgements of what individuals do or don't do is quite in error. For example, she and others spent a lot of time on the streets and in many other places, which you cannot possibly know from seeing Youtube.
You can listen to the preaching, approve/disapprove of the worship and ministry style etc. However, none of us can really cast a negative judgement on whether they (corporate or individual) have 'power', visit the sick, affect the world, go home after the music (in the derogatory sense) etc. To make such judgements is quite extraordinary and would only hold up in Kangaroo courts.
I've no doubt there are 'issues' but after spending time with a former member, who had committed a year or so of her time, I can assure you that what you imply in your judgements of what individuals do or don't do is quite in error. For example, she and others spent a lot of time on the streets and in many other places, which you cannot possibly know from seeing Youtube.
"God's Great Dance Floor"
I’m coming back to the start
Where You found me
I’m coming back to Your heart
Now I surrender
Take me
This is all I can bring
I’m coming back to the start
I got this freedom
In here we feel Your heart
Your heartbeat for us
Take me
This is all I can bring
[Chorus:]
You’ll never stop loving us
No matter how far we run
You’ll never give up on us
All of heaven shouts: let the future begin
Let the future begin
Take me
This is all I can bring
[Chorus:]
You’ll never stop loving us
No matter how far we run
You’ll never give up on us
All of heaven shouts: let the future begin
I feel alive, I come alive
I am alive on God’s great dance floor
I feel alive, I come alive
I am alive on God’s great dance floor
I feel alive, I come alive
I am alive on God’s great dance floor
I feel alive, I come alive
I am alive on God’s great dance floor
I feel alive, I come alive
I am alive on God’s great dance floor
God’s great dance floor!
This is a song that is called a Praise song. Not classed as worship.
No joy huh?
I’m coming back to the start
Where You found me
I’m coming back to Your heart
Now I surrender
Take me
This is all I can bring
I’m coming back to the start
I got this freedom
In here we feel Your heart
Your heartbeat for us
Take me
This is all I can bring
[Chorus:]
You’ll never stop loving us
No matter how far we run
You’ll never give up on us
All of heaven shouts: let the future begin
Let the future begin
Take me
This is all I can bring
[Chorus:]
You’ll never stop loving us
No matter how far we run
You’ll never give up on us
All of heaven shouts: let the future begin
I feel alive, I come alive
I am alive on God’s great dance floor
I feel alive, I come alive
I am alive on God’s great dance floor
I feel alive, I come alive
I am alive on God’s great dance floor
I feel alive, I come alive
I am alive on God’s great dance floor
I feel alive, I come alive
I am alive on God’s great dance floor
God’s great dance floor!
This is a song that is called a Praise song. Not classed as worship.
No joy huh?
E
You are right. I cannot speak for every individual within a movement. It would be similar for me trying to speak for every Roman Catholic. I can't very well do that because I've actually run into many Catholics who disagree with many different doctrines of the Roman Catholic church. Perhaps there are people within Bethel who the Lord is working on and they are dropping the dead weight that heresy brings and beginning to cling more and more to Christ.
However, my friend, can't you see that just because this might be true that doesn't mean we cannot warn people away from the actual church system itself? There were Pharisees who sought Christ in His time but He still told His disciples to "beware of (their) leaven". He also still issued the famous "Woe unto you scribes, Pharisees, hypocrites!" This was because their religious system itself was bad, even if there were some folks with good hearts within it.
I see that you recognize that there are issues though. If you can see it, I can see it, and it is all over the internet, then why is there no repentance over the issues? Why don't I see any reformation? I think this is one of the dividing lines between the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
However, my friend, can't you see that just because this might be true that doesn't mean we cannot warn people away from the actual church system itself? There were Pharisees who sought Christ in His time but He still told His disciples to "beware of (their) leaven". He also still issued the famous "Woe unto you scribes, Pharisees, hypocrites!" This was because their religious system itself was bad, even if there were some folks with good hearts within it.
I see that you recognize that there are issues though. If you can see it, I can see it, and it is all over the internet, then why is there no repentance over the issues? Why don't I see any reformation? I think this is one of the dividing lines between the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
C
I know I already posted one of th videos, but an idea was suggested to compare, the artists w/ th same song. Pay attention to th audience and focus of th singer. What do u think?
JESUS CULTURE
[video=youtube;JP8isf9PVz4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP8isf9PVz4[/video]
KRISTIAN STANFILL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xY7OtDJLWlg
JESUS CULTURE
[video=youtube;JP8isf9PVz4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP8isf9PVz4[/video]
KRISTIAN STANFILL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xY7OtDJLWlg
A
Thanks, Crazylove, for posting the videos to both youtube versions.
It's been awhile since I've been in this thread.....but I just wanted to say that I just did research on the "One Thing Remains," song.
I looked it up on the publisher's website:
YourChristianHome.com || The One Stop Resource for Christians
And it seems that Matt Redman is the real author of the song. Not Jesus Culture. So, for the purposes of this thread, the only thing we can do is to compare the two youtube videos.
This is a case where Jesus Culture covered a song by another artist.
It's been awhile since I've been in this thread.....but I just wanted to say that I just did research on the "One Thing Remains," song.
I looked it up on the publisher's website:
YourChristianHome.com || The One Stop Resource for Christians
And it seems that Matt Redman is the real author of the song. Not Jesus Culture. So, for the purposes of this thread, the only thing we can do is to compare the two youtube videos.
This is a case where Jesus Culture covered a song by another artist.
E
Well it is their doctrine that I have a problem with more than their music.
A lot of times, as someone else said, all they basically do in Jesus Culture is set verses to music or cover someone else's song.
However, if someone really likes Jesus Culture they stand the chance of being led to the false doctrine that they hold. Simply because they play good Christian music does not mean that they are good Christians.
I never listened to Katy Perry's old Christian music. But I'm sure there were a decent amount of people who liked it (She used to be a Christian music artist). It is only now that people can see that she never knew Christ in the first place. Perhaps she took some weak Christians with her on her cross-over to agnosticism/atheism.
A lot of times, as someone else said, all they basically do in Jesus Culture is set verses to music or cover someone else's song.
However, if someone really likes Jesus Culture they stand the chance of being led to the false doctrine that they hold. Simply because they play good Christian music does not mean that they are good Christians.
I never listened to Katy Perry's old Christian music. But I'm sure there were a decent amount of people who liked it (She used to be a Christian music artist). It is only now that people can see that she never knew Christ in the first place. Perhaps she took some weak Christians with her on her cross-over to agnosticism/atheism.
A
I agree that it is the doctrine at Bethel Church that is more worrying than anything their band might play, and that some Christians might be led astray through the music.
But in this thread, I just wanted to make sure that no one condemned songs just because Jesus Culture plays the songs. It is easy to attribute songs incorrectly to a covering artist, just because the cover version becomes super popular.
So then, we need to make wise choices about buying music. Do we want to support Jesus Culture, or would we rather support a different artist doing the same song? This is something that each person must decide.
And if we decide that a church shouldn't play Jesus Culture songs, then that church needs to decide on what basis they will make these decisions. Are they going to ban songs just because Jesus Culture covered a song, and that cover version has become popular....and thus they are afraid their congregation might get into Jesus Culture stuff? Or do they only ban songs that Jesus Culture artists have actually written? (I actually don't know how many they have written).
Or should songs be banned based on the theology that is in the lyrics?
I do know that there is a song version of the Lord's Prayer that someone at Bethel Church wrote, and one of the lines is removed...possibly because it doesn't fit with Bethel theology? I'm not sure.
But in this thread, I just wanted to make sure that no one condemned songs just because Jesus Culture plays the songs. It is easy to attribute songs incorrectly to a covering artist, just because the cover version becomes super popular.
So then, we need to make wise choices about buying music. Do we want to support Jesus Culture, or would we rather support a different artist doing the same song? This is something that each person must decide.
And if we decide that a church shouldn't play Jesus Culture songs, then that church needs to decide on what basis they will make these decisions. Are they going to ban songs just because Jesus Culture covered a song, and that cover version has become popular....and thus they are afraid their congregation might get into Jesus Culture stuff? Or do they only ban songs that Jesus Culture artists have actually written? (I actually don't know how many they have written).
Or should songs be banned based on the theology that is in the lyrics?
I do know that there is a song version of the Lord's Prayer that someone at Bethel Church wrote, and one of the lines is removed...possibly because it doesn't fit with Bethel theology? I'm not sure.
E
Rahab is not alive today or spearheading a movement that draws youth around the globe away from Christ and instead to false spirits. Bill Johnson is the Source and Jesus Culture / Bethel Music is the stream that flows directly from that source. The "glory and presence" that they so often speak of in their songs do not point to Christ. Bit instead to glory clouds, gold dust during worship, and subjective encounters that they place more emphasis on than scripture. Look into it and pray for discernment, and the true Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth. Blessings.