Is it possible for a true Christian to one day no longer believe in God?

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Is it possible for a genuine believer in Christ to one day no longer believe?

  • Yes (and they will still be saved)

    Votes: 1 3.7%
  • Yes (but they will no longer be saved)

    Votes: 14 51.9%
  • No (they either never believed or are in denial)

    Votes: 12 44.4%

  • Total voters
    27

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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I feel I'm speaking to a wall when I talk to you. It's amazing. How many times do I have to tell you it was not just a belief for me. It was not a religion I followed. I believed I was born again. for the majority of my life I believed I had a living relationship with the living God. All those things you've said were what I was. The way you believe now, is how I believed then. You are continuously implying that I never had any kind of relationship with God, that it was all just belief and religion, and I'm telling you it was not just belief and religion. You ignored almost all of my last post by the way and this is just getting frustrating to be honest.

If you have no intention of having any kind of honest discussion, why are you even replying to me.
please don't blame me for your confusion. Your example with the Muslim becoming a Christian showed me that you were treating being born again just like being an exMuslim.
I'm sorry I'm not telling you what you want to hear. You know what you've been through and you know where to go to be forgiven, I'm not going to make you drink, your fight is with Jesus...not me. End
 

nogard

Senior Member
Aug 21, 2013
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please don't blame me for your confusion. Your example with the Muslim becoming a Christian showed me that you were treating being born again just like being an exMuslim.
I'm sorry I'm not telling you what you want to hear. You know what you've been through and you know where to go to be forgiven, I'm not going to make you drink, your fight is with Jesus...not me. End
Crossnote. That is what I believe now. Not what I believed then. When I was Christian I would not have believed those two to be the same thing. That is all I am trying to tell you. And that is what you are not understanding.

You chose to focus on that last part of my long post and completely ignore the rest of it that was explaining all this. I mean, I'm not just going to let you get off the hook for this. If you want to give up and stick your head in the sand and believe that people like me don't exist. Then fine. Go ahead and do it. But that is not reality.

I wish I would have never gave that dumb example because I would have loved to hear your response apart from it.
 
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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Crossnote. That is what I believe now. Not what I believed then. When I was Christian I would not have believed those two to be the same thing. That is all I am trying to tell you. And that is what you are not understanding.
Sigh. I do understand, that is what you believe now.
So go now and believe what you want. If ever you need help, in finding Jesus or coming back (whatever your case) then maybe I can help, but I can't help with this hypothetical fairyland challenge you have put forth, IOW have it your way. Good bye.
 

nogard

Senior Member
Aug 21, 2013
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Sigh. I do understand, that is what you believe now.
So go now and believe what you want. If ever you need help, in finding Jesus or coming back (whatever your case) then maybe I can help, but I can't help with this hypothetical fairyland challenge you have put forth, IOW have it your way. Good bye.
Thank you. I actually really appreciate that response. I guess I just got so upset because I thought we were actually kind of getting somewhere at first. I gave a mini-testimony and then you asked "but what did Christ do for you" and I tried to give a response to that and asked if there was anything else I could clarify. And then it kind of got sidetracked, and that's probably my fault. I introduced a few side points that probably didn't help clarify things at all, and I think the good momentum just got lost in the shuffle.

Look I understand that if you believe in eternal security and perseverance of the saints, I am an anomaly to that belief. I know you have no choice really but to believe I was never saved in order to keep those beliefs in tact. So to ask you to acknowledge otherwise is probably not fair of me to do to you, so I won't push it further on you either. It is just a bit of a touchy subject for me though because I know what I know about the faith I had in Christ for the majority of my life. For people to tell me I was faking it or it was insincere, it just hurts a little, because I know it wasn't. For me it's not a hypothetical unrealistic question; for me it's reality. It's what happened to me.
 
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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,709
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Thank you. I actually really appreciate that response. I guess I just got so upset because I thought we were actually kind of getting somewhere at first. I gave a mini-testimony and then you asked "but what did Christ do for you" and I tried to give a response to that and asked if there was anything else I could clarify. And then it kind of got sidetracked, and that's probably my fault. I introduced a few side points that probably didn't help clarify things at all, and I think the good momentum just got lost in the shuffle.

Look I understand that if you believe in eternal security and perseverance of the saints, I am an anomaly to that belief. I know you have no choice really but to believe I was never saved in order to keep those beliefs in tact. So to ask you to acknowledge otherwise is probably not fair of me to do to you, so I won't push it further on you either. It is just a bit of a touchy subject for me though because I know what I know about the faith I had in Christ for the majority of my life. For people to tell me I was faking it or it was insincere, it just hurts a little, because I know it wasn't. For me it's not a hypothetical unrealistic question; for me it's reality. It's what happened to me.
I just can't base my faith in personal experiences of others or myself. I have to have my beliefs shaped by God's Word.
 

nogard

Senior Member
Aug 21, 2013
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I just can't base my faith in personal experiences of others or myself. I have to have my beliefs shaped by God's Word.
Fair enough. For what it's worth, though, it appears there is some division among the Christians on here concerning what God's Word says on the matter (as discussion in this topic and the poll would indicate). I think this kind of overlaps the OSAS vs. conditional salvation debate. The ironic thing is I was actually on your side (the OSAS) of the debate when I was a believer. While both sides have their verses, I felt the OSAS side had more compelling verses as well as a better unified context throughout Scripture. Although Hebrews 6:4-6 is definitely a head scratcher. :)
 
Jul 22, 2014
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I phrased this topic a little differently than the question is usually put. But what I want to do in this topic is discuss the topic of people who no longer believe after having put their faith in Christ and having lived for Him for quite some time. Basically, is there such a thing as a genuine ex-Christian? By definition here, that is someone who had genuinely accepted Christ as their Savior, but now no longer believes.

Do you think it's possible? Do you think it's not possible? If anyone has any Scripture to throw into the discussion, I'd be interested to see that as well.
Jesus said to the many disciples that He sent out that they were to rejoice that their names were written in heaven.

"Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven" (Luke 10:20).

So the many disciples (Not the famous 12) did in fact have their names written in heaven at one point in time. However, they stopped following Jesus (See John 6:66 - Please take note that this is not a good number and what they did was evil and wrong); Anyways, when they stopped following Jesus, their names would have been blotted out of the book of life (Revelation 3:5). They did not endure because they had no root in God's Word and proved they were not one of the truly faithful followers in Christ within this life (i.e. the Elect). For they chose of their own free will to go their own way. Showing they were not one of the true brethren (Who endured in their faith).

This is why we read elsewhere.

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." (1 John 2:19).

They were born again and once saved, but they were not of the Elect or those who had root in God's Word (Note: In reference to "having no root" see the Parable of the Sower in Matthew 13). Hence, why they were not of us (i.e. the Elect). For God chooses the Elect based on His future foreknowledge of our free will choices (See 1 Peter 1, 2 with a special focus on verse 2).
 
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However, if one was truly born again spiritually and they had the Holy Spirit and the gifts thereof and they rejected Jesus, they cannot repent and come back (See Hebrews 6:4-6). Peter's denial was different because he did not reject Christ while having the Holy Spirit. For the Spirit was poured out later upon the disciples. Only believers who have backslidden into a lifestyle of sin (While believing Jesus is their Savior still) can such repent and come back to the faith to the saving of their soul (See James 5:19-20).
 
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Anyways, I am not so sure one can truly have the Holy Spirit and the gifts thereof and know God and then like later deny that He exists. Reject Him... yes. But deny His existence after you have known by the Spirit that He exists is another matter entirely. So if such is the case, then there is hope for one to repent and come back to the faith. But if you believed and never truly felt the LORD working in your life and it was all just some kind of outward ritual or religious belief to you only, then you never experienced the power of the Spirit and truly know what it was like to walk with God (and you could never truly say you once knew the LORD). If this is the case, then good news for you. You can repent and accept Jesus Christ as your Savior for real this time and ask for His Spirit to come into your life.

To help lead you to what to say or believe in accepting the LORD, please check out the tract in my signature below each of my posts.

Thank you; And may God's love shine upon you.
 
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Ella85

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May 9, 2014
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I don't think they ever really knew Christ because if they did they would not "unbelieve"

The power of the holy spirit is too strong and there is no way that the Lord would let them go!
They are His and He is theirs forever!
 
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The Almighty has thoughts and ways far above what we can comprehend. A question that only The Almighty can answer, and i won't try and speak for the Almighty, but can speak on my thoughts of Him, and i fell that if one strays, The Almighty will go and purge them some them bring them back home. The reason i feel this way, is because i went from among The Almighty and His Family, and hung out with the dogs, and swine, i never stopped believing, i just stopped caring. It took a while to snap out of it, but i thought that was my calling, to go hang with the drunks and druggies, but instead of them coming closer to the Almighty, it was taking me further away from Him. Then by His mercy, and grace, i was brought back in. These days i'm a loner, and i'm not sure what to do, but i believe with all my heart, that The Almighty has a plan, and will never leave me, even if i go out He will come get me before its to late.
 
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it seems that people that stop believing, usually because they might not get what they want when they want it. The Almighty is always right on time.
 

Word_Swordsman

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2014
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Then by His mercy, and grace, i was brought back in. These days i'm a loner, and i'm not sure what to do, but i believe with all my heart, that The Almighty has a plan, and will never leave me, even if i go out He will come get me before its to late.
Note that thousands of people walked through wilderness searching for Jesus to hear him speak and see him do miracles. We mostly find the Lord sitting in some spot, the people seeking him out. Yes, there is an assignment for you, a tiny part of God's grace plan, but assignments are given to those who present themselves, like a soldier ordered to show up at the Major's tent for his task. All of Jesus' disciples that followed him consistently were found "on the road" mixing with people, preaching/teaching wherever there were ears to hear. It's very unlikely that being a loner will succeed.

There's an old story of a man that had been true to his church, but stopped attending. The pastor missed him, sent word for the man to visit the pastor's home one cold winter day. The fellow arrived, was invited in to sit by the fireplace. The man sat planning reasons why he should be justified for not assembling with anyone, dreading a private sermon. The pastor remained silent, the two sipping hot tea. The pastor took the fire poke and stirred the coals in the fireplace. He moved one coal away from the pile of coals, then the two watched silently. The lone coal faded from red to gray to black, while the others remained glowing. The visitor rose to leave. "Pastor, I understand. I'll be in church Sunday.".

Just get up, go, and stop being a loner. When Jesus awoke each morning he set out on the road. He didn't lead a chain gang of disciples all roped together. Each did their own getting up and following. In the following they both learned and ministered to others and to each other. Nothing has changed with the Lord.

Judas got up and followed no more, betraying Jesus. It happens. There are many excuses, his being that Jesus didn't meet his expectations. He had it backwards, not continuing to meet Jesus' expectations.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I don't think they ever really knew Christ because if they did they would not "unbelieve"

The power of the holy spirit is too strong and there is no way that the Lord would let them go!
They are His and He is theirs forever!

Amen...eternally sealed unto the day of redemption...Christ saves to the uttermost..in the Father's hand and in the hand of Christ and even Jesus said he would lose nothing that was his, but would raise it up at the (LAST DAY)
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I just can't base my faith in personal experiences of others or myself. I have to have my beliefs shaped by God's Word.
Peter while talking about his experience on the mount of transfiguration said...We have amore sure word of prophecy...I.E. The word of God trumps experience!
 

Word_Swordsman

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2014
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it seems that people that stop believing, usually because they might not get what they want when they want it. The Almighty is always right on time.
A youth pastor's father and mother were founders of the church. When the last was buried, their bronze pew plate was removed to allow the living to sit where they sat for 60 years. The pastor protested, slowly grew bitter, less effective, finally quitting the church to the shock of everyone. He had nothing to do with church or ministry again for about 20 years, considered to be an apostate. One day an usher whispered to me something strange was happening, so be on guard. That backsliding pastor took a seat, sat through the service. At the altar call he came down, fell on his face repenting. He testified briefly what he had done. The moment he never expected was what "sounded" like a warm welcome from Heaven "Welcome home, son." It was instantly as though he had never departed. His regret was those 20 empty years. He returned to his home church and is doing well, all caught up with the Lord but not on staff there yet.

There are lots of folks experiencing similar things. Many were disappointed by someone, usually over issues that should have been dealt with better. People quit attending, few if any seeking them out to find out why. Letting them go like that tends to drive their anger deeper. A common response is to adopt a lifestyle change that offends people they knew. Some take on another religion or maybe join an atheist organization. I'm finding folks doing those things are increasingly unhappy, unfulfilled.

Jesus leaves his door unlocked. He knocks on doors, wanting seekers to open up to him. He will not push our door open. We have to get up and open it, let him back in. He won't turn anyone away that honestly repents and means business with him.

It's rare that believers who knew the Lord, and the Lord knew them, who met all the conditions of the Hebrews 6 & 10 warnings to apostates, to so make shipwreck of their lives they can't return. There is a line that if crossed, there is no returning. Among the many who have sought counsel from us that think they have gone too far, all but less than a dozen in the past 35 years were simply suffering great hurt from someone, or had expectations of God that God hasn't promised, or someone (or group) rejected them. The natural response is then to ignore all those associated with that hurt, even ignoring God. That isn't apostasy. Apostasy is defined well enough that it will remain rare until the antichrist deceives the world and a majority of people qualify s true apostates who will unquestionably turn to worship him.

The way to know where we might stand with the Lord is to get on his trail, catch up to him, let him tell you rather than trust your thinking, as all the above can easily distort the ability to hear God. If this issue is front and center bothering the conscience, then it's likely the Holy Spirit is still working on the problem.

A sign of eternal failure is a fearful dread of the return of the Lord. People that are in that situation don't tend to try out other religions seeking any god, because when they try there is no real remedy anywhere.
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
Thank you. I actually really appreciate that response. I guess I just got so upset because I thought we were actually kind of getting somewhere at first. I gave a mini-testimony and then you asked "but what did Christ do for you" and I tried to give a response to that and asked if there was anything else I could clarify. And then it kind of got sidetracked, and that's probably my fault. I introduced a few side points that probably didn't help clarify things at all, and I think the good momentum just got lost in the shuffle.

Look I understand that if you believe in eternal security and perseverance of the saints, I am an anomaly to that belief. I know you have no choice really but to believe I was never saved in order to keep those beliefs in tact. So to ask you to acknowledge otherwise is probably not fair of me to do to you, so I won't push it further on you either. It is just a bit of a touchy subject for me though because I know what I know about the faith I had in Christ for the majority of my life. For people to tell me I was faking it or it was insincere, it just hurts a little, because I know it wasn't. For me it's not a hypothetical unrealistic question; for me it's reality. It's what happened to me.
There is nothing new under the sun. You are not an anomaly. You won't change eternal security.

None of us know if you were truly saved. If you believed in your heart( right lobe of your brain/epignosis knowledge) that The Lord Jesus Christ died for your sins and rose again....................your a saved man.

If your at peace in your thoughts and life is good...........you probably didn't have epignosis knowledge of the Lord.

If all your thoughts and decisions and life seem like a jumbled mess, nothing seems to go right.............your probably in reversionism and a saved person. And life will not get back on track, until you rebound.

Even if we are faithless..............He remains faithful.

If you are saved.....................life will get worse for you. Because you will face divine discipline. He is patient with His children, but if you see your life going down the tubes, you will be well off to rebound and come back to Him.
 

Word_Swordsman

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2014
1,666
100
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There is nothing new under the sun. You are not an anomaly. You won't change eternal security.

None of us know if you were truly saved. If you believed in your heart( right lobe of your brain/epignosis knowledge) that The Lord Jesus Christ died for your sins and rose again....................your a saved man.

If your at peace in your thoughts and life is good...........you probably didn't have epignosis knowledge of the Lord.

If all your thoughts and decisions and life seem like a jumbled mess, nothing seems to go right.............your probably in reversionism and a saved person. And life will not get back on track, until you rebound.

Even if we are faithless..............He remains faithful.

If you are saved.....................life will get worse for you. Because you will face divine discipline. He is patient with His children, but if you see your life going down the tubes, you will be well off to rebound and come back to Him.
I don't think it's appropriate to judge anyone concerning their salvation or lack of it. Nogard does know by what the Bible says the signs are, and God knows the heart. None here ought to guess whether salvation was, is, or will be for anyone but yourself. As for knowing whether someone around us claiming to be Christian is indeed a follower of Christ's commandments, we are allowed to observe their fruit. I've never met Nogard, who can't possibly present fruit here on the web, so I can't benefit by personal inspection.

The Bible teaches that people can go from true believer to non-believer. Few attain to the full description of who is eligible to depart in apostasy, most remaining in severe ignorance of what sort of person can reject the Lord unto no return. Well, here's a summary description of what sort of "Christian" can fall into that predicament:

For it is impossible for those who were

once enlightened, and have
tasted of the heavenly gift, and were
made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have
tasted the good word of God, and
the powers of the world to come,

if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV)

That is not an either/or list. It insists on all those requirements.
It's taking many Christians whole lifetimes to qualify, probably by far most never satisfied they have reached that capability. Grace covers our failures upon repentance until a person has so abused that warning that the initial covering of the blood of Jesus has been annulled in them, requiring a complete rebirth and covering again. That is not an option, for the blood is available once for each, seeing Jesus will not suffer on the cross again.

If you have to look up the meaning of those requirements I doubt you qualify as a potential apostate. If you can claim all that to your own experience, then you made the list. Just don't depart past that. Rather, a person is more in danger of living a carnal life by obeying Jesus' commandments, possibly never opening the door to Jesus in the first place. It's why many elderly folks that have behaved all their adult lives, warmed pews for 80 years, finally respond to an altar call. Without that rebirth experience they can't find eternal life, even though their names are stamped on bricks in their church's foundation wall.

I am detecting a smattering of Calvinism on the board, claiming God picks and chooses who will be saved since he "knew" who would be saved from before the foundation of the world. That lie is damning people who give up after not "feeling" saved, assuming it is their lot to perish. Reject that, as it came from Satan.
 
J

JoelG

Guest
I think it is possible to loose faith. And, then to gain faith again. Happens to me all the time. Like I was being tossed to and fro by every doctrine in the wind. I am struggling now.
When you loose faith you will find yourself in a situation where nothing matters anymore. The bad people win because , they did bad thing with no consequences. Also, you find yourself in a situation where there is no right or wrong because nothing matters. For all you know you could have been born a tree.
For some reason it doesn't feel right not to have Gods laws guiding you. There is an emptiness. And, that's why I have not forsaken God completely. It just does not feel right to me to be an atheist.
Its not easy to have faith in God, unless you give your life to him. God is not an errand boy to satisfy your wondering desires. He didn't create you to sow your wild oats.
What also brings me back is the fact, that the world is getting more messed up than it used to be. And, the signs are present to the growing calamity of the world.
What turns me off are the religious wars, wrong bible interpretations, religious extremist, all the denominations that claim they are the only true church, and the fact that people differ in their beliefs. Same book different with meanings. And, it can get very confusing. Even the simple things are debated. Like Christmas and Easter, women's rights to be pastors, and many other things in the bible that people can not agree on. Who is right? The only solid foundation is to read the bible and keep the information to yourself. If you join a church group you become the product of your pastor, and he could be wrong.
The reason I quit going to church is because the pastor told us that the Jews were being punished by God during the Holocaust. It was a bible study class, I asked him if God was also punishing the African Americans and the American Natives as well. Because more of them died during the European invasion and during slavery than the number of Jews that died during the Holocaust. And, the pastor also picked sides while telling us about the Ferguson, Missouri riots.
There are pastors that scare the members into paying tithing. Saying its a sin not to pay and if they do not they are going to Hell.
I could go on and on why I loose faith. The system is broken. And, if you do not belong to a church , how would you pick one that is the real deal. I look back at the origins to all denominations. Where is the church that Peter was the rock of?
You know what I thought of? Jesus said to Peter, "You are the rock... to my church". And going by that, every true Christians is another rock to build God's church. Peter was just the first rock. You have some rocks that are not that strong and those are the ones that crumble and fall of the building and are not of the building no more.
And, the lasted revelation that proved to me that there was a God; was when I saw the Earth on Google Earth. This planet looks so beautiful from outer space. While the other planets look just grey. Its like when Dorthy open the door in the Land of Oz.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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I could go on and on why I loose faith. The system is broken. And, if you do not belong to a church , how would you pick one that is the real deal. I look back at the origins to all denominations. Where is the church that Peter was the rock of?
You know what I thought of? Jesus said to Peter, "You are the rock... to my church". And going by that, every true Christians is another rock to build God's church. Peter was just the first rock. You have some rocks that are not that strong and those are the ones that crumble and fall of the building and are not of the building no more.
Jesus Christ is the Rock, and God's revealed written Word proclaims that there is no other Rock besides Him. Jesus was telling Peter that His church was to be built upon the confession of faith in Him, the chief cornerstone, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles.

http://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/God,-The-Rock