Is it possible for a true Christian to one day no longer believe in God?

[eternally-gratefull]

The question pertinent to the topic under discussion was:

Can someone accept the body of teaching given by the apostles and not be a Christian?

so your saying Moses was not one of the OT apostles? what made moses any different than paul?

the point is, the answer to your question is yes, they can accept the body of teaching, and not be saved, because they misinterpret the teaching (as the pharisee did Moses teaching, which was not Moses. but actually the inspired words of God, just like pauls words were)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Cross reference with Acts 20:28-31, and also part of the gospel of Christ by faith in Him is keeping with sound doctrine.
If you are not keeping with sound doctrine the teachings of the Lord which were expounded on by the Apostles then your faith in Christ is not a genuine faith in Him.

then you would not be saved, until you had a genuine faith in him.

 

[KennethC]

The question pertinent to the topic under discussion was:

Can someone accept the body of teaching given by the apostles and not be a Christian?

I would say that would matter if they are only excepting in word but not applying it to their life, or if they are applying it to their life. For if they are applying it to their life and keeping in that sound doctrine then yes they are Christians, but if they say they accept it by mouth but in their deeds they show no such acceptance then no it is just a false profession.

Just like the Pharisees E.G. brought up, they may have accepted the law of Moses by mouth but they corrupted, defiled, and added to it to cause stumbling blocks on others. So no they were not saved for this defilement, and Jesus even told them a prostitute will get into heaven before them.

 

[Magenta]

so your saying Moses was not one of the OT apostles?

I am appalled that you could read anything resembling what you have said here into what I specifically and very straight forwardly articulated.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am appalled that you could read anything resembling what you have said here into what I specifically and very straight forwardly articulated.

how else should I take it?

I could have just said, yes, they could not be saved, but what good would that be, I used an example found in scripture. to prove why I believe that way.

You seemed to take that personally. I am confused as to why.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I would say that would matter if they are only excepting in word but not applying it to their life, or if they are applying it to their life. For if they are applying it to their life and keeping in that sound doctrine then yes they are Christians, but if they say they accept it by mouth but in their deeds they show no such acceptance then no it is just a false profession.

Just like the Pharisees E.G. brought up, they may have accepted the law of Moses by mouth but they corrupted, defiled, and added to it to cause stumbling blocks on others. So no they were not saved for this defilement, and Jesus even told them a prostitute will get into heaven before them.

which was the point I was trying to make

 

[Magenta]

how else should I take it?

Answering a straightforward question with a straightforward answer works for me. If that is not your style, we will not get along well.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Answering a straightforward question with a straightforward answer works for me. If that is not your style, we will not get along well.[/B][/COLOR]

unfortunately. when you answer a straight forward question in here. most times it gets you in trouble and alot of arguments.

I have found it is better to not answer yes or no questions.. in CC, they are usually bait questions.

 

[HQ]

But from what i understand faith is belief in something with no evidence?i should add also i mean no dis-respect to anyone at all everyone has the the right to believe what they want,i'm just trying to gain an understanding why other people can believe and as hard as i try i can not.

Here's an illustration I like to use to address a position like yours:

Suppose you and I are walking along the beach and we come across ripples in the sand. You ask me how they got there and I tell you that the tide came in earlier and then gradually receded, leaving the ripples. You're satisfied with my answer, but we later come across something written in the sand: "Henry loves Elizabeth". You ask me how it got there and I tell you the receding tide created it. You obviously smack me because it's quite obvious that I gave you a stupid answer. Why? Because it obviously contains tightly packed information created by an intelligent mind. For example it conveys the names of two people, one male and one female; it conveys emotion (love); It conveys language (English). It conveys grammar and syntax. You are totally justified for smacking me and thinking that I'm completely oblivious to reality.

Well how much more complex is a single strand of DNA, which contains as much densely packed information as three sets of the Encyclopedia Britannica?

My point is there's plenty of evidence that an intelligent mind is behind an information-rich universe. You just need to pay attention.

 

[crossnote]

Answering a straightforward question with a straightforward answer works for me. If that is not your style, we will not get along well.[/B][/COLOR]

Often, that was Christ's style...answering a question with a question.

 

[nogard]

Seventh Day Adventists, along with Armstrongites, have a distorted sense of reality. I was a second generation Armstrongite so I know this from experience.

You should get involved with a sound Christian church with sound teaching. These two groups know virtually nothing about core issues of salvation and that is what you need help with.

Ummm, I was never a Seventh Day Adventist; I'm not sure what made you think I was. I was raised Baptist, and around 13/14 started attending nondenominational churches.

Do you still pray and ask for God to reveal Himself to you? Is there any major sin issue in your life that causes you to want to push Him away?

I backslid for a while and I was not following God like I should have been. I remember distinctly pushing Him away from me...I did not want to listen to Christian music or anything due to the conviction it would bring.

Ask yourself if you are holding a particular sin that is causing you disbelief, because sin will do that. If so, you need to give it up in order to restore your original relationship with God.

Quite often it will be a blatantly apparent sin like sexual immorality or something like that, but regardless if you are putting anything in front of God, you can cause yourself to disbelieve. You really love the sin and want it more than you want God in your life.

At any rate ask Him to show you what's going on.

Regarding whether God exists, true atheism is rare. It is apparent from the fact that something exists rather than nothing, that God exists. Even unbelievers will acknowledge this except for the extremely foolish. Something does not come into existence from nothing without a transcendent cause. And the Transcendent Cause shows incredible artistry and intelligence in the resulting creation. We also know that we are created with verbal ability, so it would be illogical that we would be created with this capacity, yet our creator would fail to communicate with us. The Bible is the only coherent communication that claims to have originated from a Transcendent Cause (some might suggest the Qur'an but I don't find it coherent and it is parasitical upon Judaism and Christianity).

Thank you for the thoughtful response, but I am not speaking of backsliding, but rather of unbelief. It's not that I don't want to obey God anymore, it's that I no longer believe in the Christian God anymore.

As far as your last paragraph, I kind of agree and disagree with it. A true atheist is someone who adamantly believes no god exists whatsoever. However, there is no way to prove that no god exists so it's kind of a faith statement oddly enough. Most nonbelievers, including myself, are agnostic.

 

[damombomb]

I phrased this topic a little differently than the question is usually put. But what I want to do in this topic is discuss the topic of people who no longer believe after having put their faith in Christ and having lived for Him for quite some time. Basically, is there such a thing as a genuine ex-Christian? By definition here, that is someone who had genuinely accepted Christ as their Savior, but now no longer believes.

Do you think it's possible? Do you think it's not possible? If anyone has any Scripture to throw into the discussion, I'd be interested to see that as well.

How could anyone that knows him, change their mind? Possibly from listening or letting someone persuade them otherwise?
1Timothy4:1
1But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 2by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,…

 

[nogard]

I do understand. I had been through about 5 religions before the Lord got hold of my life. Your first paragraph is very revealing showing that it is nothing more than another religion. You have never been born again and need to seek Him not religion... End.

So wait, I ask you if a Muslim converting to Christianity means they were never a genuine Muslim and asking that question alone means I was never saved? Are you kidding me? That's low, even for you.

I tried telling you about my faith. You asked me to tell you what Christ did for me, and I responded to you. I told you that if there is anything else you wanted me to explain to help you understand that I was a genuine believer, please ask, and I'll try to explain. But you dismiss me so easily on a whim I wonder if I'm wasting my time. It's obvious you have your mind made up no matter what I say.

See, you're continuously making the same mistake. I have mentioned this at least two other times before, so now I'll mention it a third time in hopes you'll finally catch on. You cannot use what I believe now to retroactively judge what I believed then. Back then, Christianity was reality to me. It was not just like any other religion, it was the one true religion. Jesus Christ was not just somebody I believed in. I loved God. I loved Christ. As a young boy I had recognized that Jesus was God and that He died on the cross for me so that I can be with Him when I die. I had asked Jesus to forgive me of my sins and to come inside my heart. Over the years, Jesus because my best friend. I loved God; I loved Jesus. I would sometimes cry at night when I prayed because I wanted so badly to seek His will and to walk in His ways. This was all reality to me. It was as real to me then as it is to you now.

What I believe to be reality now, does not change what I believed to be reality then, and it most definitely does not change the sincerity of those beliefs. I truly believed the Holy Spirit came inside my heart that day I devoted my life to Christ. Just because I no longer believe in the Holy Spirit, does not mean that I all of a sudden never believed in the Holy Spirit.

Your first paragraph is very revealing showing that it is nothing more than another religion. You have never been born again and need to seek Him not religion...

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I currently believe that Christianity is the same as any other religion, but I did not believe that when I was a Christian. Yet you're judging the genuinity of my former belief based off of my current belief. It makes absolutely no sense yet you keep on doing it.

Let me try to explain it to you a different way so you can maybe better see the folly in your reasoning. Remember the hypothetical Muslim who converted to Christianity. Imagine I interviewed him and it went somewhat like this:

Me: "Do you believe Jesus is God?"
Ex-Muslim (EM from now on): "Yes."
Me: "Do you believe Mohammed was a prophet of God?"
EM: "No."
Me: "Ah ha! You must have never been a true Muslim, because no true muslim would say that Mohammed was not a prophet of God. And no true Muslim would say that Jesus is God."
EM: "Wait a minute...those are things I believe now. When I was a Muslim, I didn't believe Jesus was God and I believed Mohammed was a prophet. You're judging the sincerity of my former beliefs based on my current beliefs, but that makes absolutely no sense. At the time, I truly believed these things. It was reality to me. Why are you having problems understanding that?"

I ask you the same question crossnote, why are you having problems understanding this?

 

[nogard]

the problem is in the words being used

Belief vs faith.

many believe in God. but never actually had faith in him, they can walk in this belief for years, and one day walk away and deny ever having believed in it. Their problem was they never trusted in God, trusted (were assured) in his grace and salvation, and truly experienced his love (because they were saved) if they did, they would never stop believing,

Except there are people who have trusted in God, trusted in his grace and salvation, and truly experienced his love, who now no longer believe. These people exist. I am one of them. I could direct you to several places where there are a lot more of us. You can continue to stick your head in the sand if you want and pretend we don't exist. That's your choice. But it's not reality.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

The question pertinent to the topic under discussion was:

Can someone accept the body of teaching given by the apostles and not be a Christian?

Yes. Many "accept" Christian teachings philosophically, at least by mental ascent. Many mix in Muslim teachings, feeling comfortable with that. But if a person identifying with Christians fails in [SUP]10 [/SUP] As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. then whatever he believes is in vain.

1 Peter and 2 Peter together answer that and several other questions here. There is no such benefit of claiming eternal life of bliss having spent our last times in sins of the flesh, neglecting life in the Spirit.

Head knowledge alone saves none. It must be lived out. If saved, the Christian will live a saved life, not lead a sinner's life, and receive final salvation at the end. The truest test in this life is when deadly persecution arises. Our instructions are to go somewhere else to live and preach elsewhere. No matter how hard it gets, the Lord expects us to keep the high standard of 1 Peter 4 to our last breathing moment. But if we give our flesh too much favor, it will vote to abandon the faith of Christ until a more convenient moment to re-embrace Jesus.

 

[damombomb]

For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.

Nogard what made you stop believing in Jesus? You can turn back to him, he has his hand out.

 

[crossnote]

So wait, I ask you if a Muslim converting to Christianity means they were never a genuine Muslim and asking that question alone means I was never saved? Are you kidding me? That's low, even for you.

I tried telling you about my faith. You asked me to tell you what Christ did for me, and I responded to you. I told you that if there is anything else you wanted me to explain to help you understand that I was a genuine believer, please ask, and I'll try to explain. But you dismiss me so easily on a whim I wonder if I'm wasting my time. It's obvious you have your mind made up no matter what I say.

See, you're continuously making the same mistake. I have mentioned this at least two other times before, so now I'll mention it a third time in hopes you'll finally catch on. You cannot use what I believe now to retroactively judge what I believed then. Back then, Christianity was reality to me. It was not just like any other religion, it was the one true religion. Jesus Christ was not just somebody I believed in. I loved God. I loved Christ. As a young boy I had recognized that Jesus was God and that He died on the cross for me so that I can be with Him when I die. I had asked Jesus to forgive me of my sins and to come inside my heart. Over the years, Jesus because my best friend. I loved God; I loved Jesus. I would sometimes cry at night when I prayed because I wanted so badly to seek His will and to walk in His ways. This was all reality to me. It was as real to me then as it is to you now.

What I believe to be reality now, does not change what I believed to be reality then, and it most definitely does not change the sincerity of those beliefs. I truly believed the Holy Spirit came inside my heart that day I devoted my life to Christ. Just because I no longer believe in the Holy Spirit, does not mean that I all of a sudden never believed in the Holy Spirit.



This is exactly what I'm talking about. I currently believe that Christianity is the same as any other religion, but I did not believe that when I was a Christian. Yet you're judging the genuinity of my former belief based off of my current belief. It makes absolutely no sense yet you keep on doing it.

Let me try to explain it to you a different way so you can maybe better see the folly in your reasoning. Remember the hypothetical Muslim who converted to Christianity. Imagine I interviewed him and it went somewhat like this:

Me: "Do you believe Jesus is God?"
Ex-Muslim (EM from now on): "Yes."
Me: "Do you believe Mohammed was a prophet of God?"
EM: "No."
Me: "Ah ha! You must have never been a true Muslim, because no true muslim would say that Mohammed was not a prophet of God. And no true Muslim would say that Jesus is God."
EM: "Wait a minute...those are things I believe now. When I was a Muslim, I didn't believe Jesus was God and I believed Mohammed was a prophet. You're judging the sincerity of my former beliefs based on my current beliefs, but that makes absolutely no sense. At the time, I truly believed these things. It was reality to me. Why are you having problems understanding that?"

I ask you the same question crossnote, why are you having problems understanding this?

I understand it perfectly.
Being born again is 180 deg from believing another religion...that is what you don't understand because you never have been born again...you only had another religion called Christianity.
When a person is born again they receive a whole new nature...God's nature...their heart is renewed, their eyes are open spiritually..all things are become new and they have a living relationship with the living God...not another religion.
So your example falls flat.

 

[nogard]

I understand it perfectly.
Being born again is 180 deg from believing another religion...that is what you don't understand because you never have been born again...you only had another religion called Christianity.
When a person is born again they receive a whole new nature...God's nature...their heart is renewed, their eyes are open spiritually..all things are become new and they have a living relationship with the living God...not another religion.
So your example falls flat.

I feel I'm speaking to a wall when I talk to you. It's amazing. How many times do I have to tell you it was not just a belief for me. It was not a religion I followed. I believed I was born again. for the majority of my life I believed I had a living relationship with the living God. All those things you've said were what I was. The way you believe now, is how I believed then. You are continuously implying that I never had any kind of relationship with God, that it was all just belief and religion, and I'm telling you it was not just belief and religion. You ignored almost all of my last post by the way and this is just getting frustrating to be honest.

If you have no intention of having any kind of honest discussion, why are you even replying to me.

 

[nogard]

Being born again is 180 deg from believing another religion...that is what you don't understand because you never have been born again...you only had another religion called Christianity.

Once again, you are making the same exact mistake I just got done addressing to you. I mean you literally said the exact same thing you said before. Did you not even read what I said? Let me resay it again, for a fourth time:

See, you're continuously making the same mistake. I have mentioned this at least two other times before, so now I'll mention it a third time in hopes you'll finally catch on. You cannot use what I believe now to retroactively judge what I believed then. Back then, Christianity was reality to me. It was not just like any other religion, it was the one true religion. Jesus Christ was not just somebody I believed in. I loved God. I loved Christ. As a young boy I had recognized that Jesus was God and that He died on the cross for me so that I can be with Him when I die. I had asked Jesus to forgive me of my sins and to come inside my heart. Over the years, Jesus because my best friend. I loved God; I loved Jesus. I would sometimes cry at night when I prayed because I wanted so badly to seek His will and to walk in His ways. This was all reality to me. It was as real to me then as it is to you now.

What I believe to be reality now, does not change what I believed to be reality then, and it most definitely does not change the sincerity of those beliefs. I truly believed the Holy Spirit came inside my heart that day I devoted my life to Christ. Just because I no longer believe in the Holy Spirit, does not mean that I all of a sudden never believed in the Holy Spirit.


Your first paragraph is very revealing showing that it is nothing more than another religion. You have never been born again and need to seek Him not religion...


This is exactly what I'm talking about. I currently believe that Christianity is the same as any other religion, but I did not believe that when I was a Christian. Yet you're judging the genuinity of my former belief based off of my current belief. It makes absolutely no sense yet you keep on doing it.

 

[nogard]

For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.

Nogard what made you stop believing in Jesus? You can turn back to him, he has his hand out.

Thanks damonbomb.

Oddly enough, and I know this is hard to understand, But I didn't want to stop believing in God. I fought to keep my faith. To sum it up real short, certain things I believed to be true about Christianity and God were challenged in a way I could not rebutt, and my eyes were opened to things that I had never seen, considered, or known before. It didn't happen all at once. I could feel the doubt creeping in slowly and I would pray at night for God to save me from this unbelief and to help me see that His ways are the true ways as I had believed since my youth. But I lost the battle. Losing my faith was very hard on me, it felt like there a was a hole in my chest. I felt like I lost my best friend and it really put me in a bad place for a while. I definitely did not leave willingly. It's so hard to explain. If I am wrong, and if the God of the Bible really does exist, then all I can say is I'm sorry and I'm at His mercy and hopefully the faithfulness of my youth counts for something. I am at a place right now, though, where I can't really believe again even if I wanted to.