Is It Possible To Backslide
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Here are some commentaries that say "willful sin" in Hebrews 10 is rejecting Christ's sacrifice for sins - if people want other sources. It may conflict with our particular denomination's view but stuff like that happens all the time...
https://www.gotquestions.org/Hebrews-10-26.html
Hebrews 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
What Does Hebrews 10:26,27 Mean?
This one is very good as it goes through the book of Hebrews to show the theme and the lead up to Hebrews 10:26-29 passage. It's always good to get the context of the book.
https://revelationsingrace.wordpress.com/2013/02/12/hebrews-10-willful-sin/
https://carm.org/questions/other-questions/what-sin-spoken-hebrews-1026
I like this one too.
https://escapetoreality.org/2012/02/15/hebrews-10v26/
I will stop here as there are literally dozens of sites like this. from different commentaries. Most of them boil it down to something like this.
"Jesus Christ died for all sins, even willful sins, but if the readers of Hebrews turn back to Mosaic sacrifices, they will not find there any greater provision for forgiveness and they will face a severe judgment at the Judgment Seat of Christ.
There is no other refuge from sin's penalty than the sacrificial blood of Jesus Christ. This should be a warning to us also to look only to Jesus Christ for forgiveness because of His fully efficacious death and resurrection. "For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified" (10:14)."
We have a great salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ and we are safe in Him so now we can walk on with Him in complete confidence of His love and grace for us in all situations. He will remain faithful to us as we grow in Him....
https://www.gotquestions.org/Hebrews-10-26.html
Hebrews 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
What Does Hebrews 10:26,27 Mean?
This one is very good as it goes through the book of Hebrews to show the theme and the lead up to Hebrews 10:26-29 passage. It's always good to get the context of the book.
https://revelationsingrace.wordpress.com/2013/02/12/hebrews-10-willful-sin/
https://carm.org/questions/other-questions/what-sin-spoken-hebrews-1026
I like this one too.
https://escapetoreality.org/2012/02/15/hebrews-10v26/
I will stop here as there are literally dozens of sites like this. from different commentaries. Most of them boil it down to something like this.
"Jesus Christ died for all sins, even willful sins, but if the readers of Hebrews turn back to Mosaic sacrifices, they will not find there any greater provision for forgiveness and they will face a severe judgment at the Judgment Seat of Christ.
There is no other refuge from sin's penalty than the sacrificial blood of Jesus Christ. This should be a warning to us also to look only to Jesus Christ for forgiveness because of His fully efficacious death and resurrection. "For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified" (10:14)."
We have a great salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ and we are safe in Him so now we can walk on with Him in complete confidence of His love and grace for us in all situations. He will remain faithful to us as we grow in Him....
I came back to ask a question but wanted to read what else had been said first. In this post, it sounds like you say Israel never believed God for anything at all. But I think they believed He would save them. They saw the miracles in Egypt - applying blood to the doorposts denotes faith to me - and then were saved through the Red Sea - even that they stepped out into it when ordered to denotes faith to me. But I see a parallel between myself and what you have said about Israel. I read the progression of what you've written above and see myself in it.
You say Israel didn't believe God before the red sea.
I didn't believe God before He saved me.
You say Israel showed a lack of faith even after He sent them manna from heaven.
I have had lack of trust even after receiving the Holy Spirit of Jesus.
You say Israel had lack of faith even after God sent them water.
I have had lack of faith/trust even though I have seen Him never let me die of thirst.
You say Israel had lack of faith when Moses went up the mountain(golden calf).
I've had lack of faith when He seems to me to disappear and have panicked and tried to go back to the world because I feared my provision and safety.
You say Israel didn't trust God to give them what He promised, the land (those giants will kill us).
I have despaired sometimes that He can or will ever give me the land of my heart by killing the giants in it - selfishness, pride, arrogance and all others).
So I have done at times everything Israel did. But I have believed in God to save me.
And why did Israel have to believe Him more than me? Because those things about Israel that you say makes them unbelievers , they all came after He saved them and they believed He would.
You say we have to believe Him for the big saving and eternal life but that it's different concerning lack of faith and trust in other areas. But then you would demand something more of Israel? Their unbelief after they were saved is not okay but ours is? So we can not believe after saving but they had to? And all this because the Blood covers our unbelief and they didn't have the Blood to cover their unbelief? We may do exactly as them and we are saved? They were doomed then before they started at all.
You can't see a problem here somewhere? Isn't their story written to warn us, as the apostle said? It even sounds like we repeat their mistake of: we be the seed of Abraham! We say, the Blood covers our unbelief but they were just not as blessed because they didn't have the Blood to cover their unbelief? So we be the seed of Christ and the Holy Spirit. And no one sees a parallel that tips the scales into our favor on the same thing we would deride them for? Even our unbelief is now covered but they got the short end of the stick because they had to believe in God in EVERYTHING and we get a pass for subsequent unbelief after saving. If no one can see the problem and our holding our thumb on the scale, I will just stop with my questions, because if no one sees it, further talk will be unfruitful.
You say Israel didn't believe God before the red sea.
I didn't believe God before He saved me.
You say Israel showed a lack of faith even after He sent them manna from heaven.
I have had lack of trust even after receiving the Holy Spirit of Jesus.
You say Israel had lack of faith even after God sent them water.
I have had lack of faith/trust even though I have seen Him never let me die of thirst.
You say Israel had lack of faith when Moses went up the mountain(golden calf).
I've had lack of faith when He seems to me to disappear and have panicked and tried to go back to the world because I feared my provision and safety.
You say Israel didn't trust God to give them what He promised, the land (those giants will kill us).
I have despaired sometimes that He can or will ever give me the land of my heart by killing the giants in it - selfishness, pride, arrogance and all others).
So I have done at times everything Israel did. But I have believed in God to save me.
And why did Israel have to believe Him more than me? Because those things about Israel that you say makes them unbelievers , they all came after He saved them and they believed He would.
You say we have to believe Him for the big saving and eternal life but that it's different concerning lack of faith and trust in other areas. But then you would demand something more of Israel? Their unbelief after they were saved is not okay but ours is? So we can not believe after saving but they had to? And all this because the Blood covers our unbelief and they didn't have the Blood to cover their unbelief? We may do exactly as them and we are saved? They were doomed then before they started at all.
You can't see a problem here somewhere? Isn't their story written to warn us, as the apostle said? It even sounds like we repeat their mistake of: we be the seed of Abraham! We say, the Blood covers our unbelief but they were just not as blessed because they didn't have the Blood to cover their unbelief? So we be the seed of Christ and the Holy Spirit. And no one sees a parallel that tips the scales into our favor on the same thing we would deride them for? Even our unbelief is now covered but they got the short end of the stick because they had to believe in God in EVERYTHING and we get a pass for subsequent unbelief after saving. If no one can see the problem and our holding our thumb on the scale, I will just stop with my questions, because if no one sees it, further talk will be unfruitful.
If DC thinks this means ALL people. Not just ALL SAVED PEOPLE. then he would be wrong also
It says BROTHERS.. Paul did not call people of the world his brothers.
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Not all of Israel was disobedient. There was always a remnant that believed and trusted God. Much is the same today. We call it head belief without heart belief. Isaiah said quoted by Jesus Mr 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Ro 10:21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Hebrews is important because when we as believers receive chastening it is evidence that we are sons of God and because God loves us He corrects us to keep us from destruction.
The rod of correction is hard to not believe.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Ro 10:21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Hebrews is important because when we as believers receive chastening it is evidence that we are sons of God and because God loves us He corrects us to keep us from destruction.
The rod of correction is hard to not believe.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.
Heb 10:39
Hebrews is clear cut. You can taste of eternal things and shrink back and be destroyed.
The early church were faced like all churches with people who sprung up, looked alive and
later became apostate, heretical, went back to sinful life, lost their way.
The warning was, they will be destroyed.
The lake of fire is the place of destruction.
Heb 10:39
Hebrews is clear cut. You can taste of eternal things and shrink back and be destroyed.
The early church were faced like all churches with people who sprung up, looked alive and
later became apostate, heretical, went back to sinful life, lost their way.
The warning was, they will be destroyed.
The lake of fire is the place of destruction.
E
I was talking about the people who did not enter his rest. Not the ones who did.
Maybe you misunderstood me?
we have 2 possibilities as I see it,,,.
1. They were saved, and it proves Gods grace, because he still fed them, he still protected them, He still served them up until they died (they just never were blessed on earth)
2. They were never saved, And that is why they never entered his rest. The ones (moses, and others) who did (as the last poster said, the remnant) entered his rest Like us, they still suffered persecution, but they did it as under rest. as we all should.
In no case did they lose salvation, Fall away from Gods grace and lose salvation, Backslide to lose salvation, as some are claiming
I do not see any other possible interpretation. Do you?
E
Heb 10: [SUP]39 [/SUP]But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.
We, the church, We, Who had true faith, faith which saves the soul.
Are not of those who do not believe, but are just followers who come for awhile to try it out. But end up leaving, because it took no root. Because there was no faith.
Amazing how people can use passages which PROVE eternal security, and twist them to prove one can lose salvation
We, the church, We, Who had true faith, faith which saves the soul.
Are not of those who do not believe, but are just followers who come for awhile to try it out. But end up leaving, because it took no root. Because there was no faith.
Amazing how people can use passages which PROVE eternal security, and twist them to prove one can lose salvation
Gnostic belief of an eternal spirit put in the heart at new birth.
As soon as you believe in this eternal perfect spirit, which can never sin or fall,
you tie yourself into an eternal future.
But it also ties one into sin continuing, righteousness, holiness, purity being a delusion
of only being present in Christ, so God never sees our failures or sin.
But this cannot be true, as believers are continually corrected for failures and sin,
yet they when walking in cleansing, forgiveness and purity, are called Holy, blameless.
Now this would be absurd language unless they believed it had been achieved.
What kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives2 Peter 3:11
For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.
1 Thess 4:7
But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do
1 Peter 1:15
If you are called to be Holy, to live a holy life, it must be clearly defined
and possible. Paul called himself as living a Holy, pure and blameless life,
so however your mind cries impossible, they believed it was a reality and
they were living it. So if this is your feeling I suggest you need to do some
more reading of scripture and repentance and honesty about your heart
and how you are walking.
As soon as you believe in this eternal perfect spirit, which can never sin or fall,
you tie yourself into an eternal future.
But it also ties one into sin continuing, righteousness, holiness, purity being a delusion
of only being present in Christ, so God never sees our failures or sin.
But this cannot be true, as believers are continually corrected for failures and sin,
yet they when walking in cleansing, forgiveness and purity, are called Holy, blameless.
Now this would be absurd language unless they believed it had been achieved.
What kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives2 Peter 3:11
For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.
1 Thess 4:7
But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do
1 Peter 1:15
If you are called to be Holy, to live a holy life, it must be clearly defined
and possible. Paul called himself as living a Holy, pure and blameless life,
so however your mind cries impossible, they believed it was a reality and
they were living it. So if this is your feeling I suggest you need to do some
more reading of scripture and repentance and honesty about your heart
and how you are walking.
You cannot say that the place of their destruction is the lake of fire. You lack the authority required to make such a judgment. It may be and likely is that just their flesh was destroyed and their soul saved. Paul so judged in Corinthians five about the man who was fornicating with his mother. Paul said to give them over to the destruction of the flesh but indicated that their souls would still be saved.
1 Cor 5:1 ¶ It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
1 Cor 5:1 ¶ It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The whole passage of Heb 10, is about what it means to be faithful to Christ.
Then it goes on to say those who are not faithful, who continue in sin, who destroy
the very work of Christ they are doomed to perish.
It is a clear warning that you can taste, be convicted, yet stay sinning, denying the
very reality of Christ and loose it all.
There is no twisting here, it is plain as day.
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
Heb 10:26-28
Let us look at this simply. If you are an israelite and then left the faith, you could be
killed. But this only applied if you had been a member of Israel or converted into it.
So likewise recieving the knowledge of the truth is the same as
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance.
Heb 6:4-6
Now those who hold to OSAS cannot read these words because it would
strike them cold, the idea brings total insecurity to their minds, so they
dare not contemplate it or read the words as written.
Only those who walk in love, with a pure heart, washed by the blood, who
stand secure in the promise laid before us, are not troubled. Love is life,
it is freely walked in, and can be defiled, but the pure know its power and
continue in its ways. Why would those who have been cleansed defile themselves
like a dog eating its own sick, or a pig wallowing in the mud, it would be insane.
But those who fear they have trodden this road, want no possibility this is true.
Then it goes on to say those who are not faithful, who continue in sin, who destroy
the very work of Christ they are doomed to perish.
It is a clear warning that you can taste, be convicted, yet stay sinning, denying the
very reality of Christ and loose it all.
There is no twisting here, it is plain as day.
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
Heb 10:26-28
Let us look at this simply. If you are an israelite and then left the faith, you could be
killed. But this only applied if you had been a member of Israel or converted into it.
So likewise recieving the knowledge of the truth is the same as
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance.
Heb 6:4-6
Now those who hold to OSAS cannot read these words because it would
strike them cold, the idea brings total insecurity to their minds, so they
dare not contemplate it or read the words as written.
Only those who walk in love, with a pure heart, washed by the blood, who
stand secure in the promise laid before us, are not troubled. Love is life,
it is freely walked in, and can be defiled, but the pure know its power and
continue in its ways. Why would those who have been cleansed defile themselves
like a dog eating its own sick, or a pig wallowing in the mud, it would be insane.
But those who fear they have trodden this road, want no possibility this is true.
Some godly men truly believe we can be cut off for subsequent unbelief if it continues. Some men believe unbelief is covered by the Blood. They think there are big things we must believe in Him for, like eternal life, but that small things (like mistrust in areas of temporal provision exactly like those concerning Israel in the desert) are covered. They think it would be best to not be found in them, (as Israel was not found in them) but that whereas Israel didn't have the Blood to cover these areas of unbelief
, we have the Blood, so while it was not permitted for them, it is okay for us if we just can't seem to get to believing in "small" things. I see an all new and improved phariseeism in this. It's a little different but...it's visible to me.
There is growing in sanctification through the Spirit, so there's no need for panic, but there is also danger in being taught we're safe to continue in unbelief in small things, because we're told Israel was cut off for their subsequent unbelief and that God can also cut us off for it. So examining ourselves to see if we really ARE in unwavering faith is a very good idea. And it gives us what we need to pray for, the lack we find. But to just ignore it is not the answer. And might someone just ignore it if they are told that they must believe for eternal life but are still okay if they don't trust and have areas of unbelief in temporal matters?
, we have the Blood, so while it was not permitted for them, it is okay for us if we just can't seem to get to believing in "small" things. I see an all new and improved phariseeism in this. It's a little different but...it's visible to me.
There is growing in sanctification through the Spirit, so there's no need for panic, but there is also danger in being taught we're safe to continue in unbelief in small things, because we're told Israel was cut off for their subsequent unbelief and that God can also cut us off for it. So examining ourselves to see if we really ARE in unwavering faith is a very good idea. And it gives us what we need to pray for, the lack we find. But to just ignore it is not the answer. And might someone just ignore it if they are told that they must believe for eternal life but are still okay if they don't trust and have areas of unbelief in temporal matters?
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This makes no sense.
If you accept we are called to walk in holiness, purity and being blameless, to defile
this calling be deliberately sinning, is rebellion and apostacy against the very life and
freedom one has received.
Read Ezek 18:21-26
The principles of acceptance and rejection are very clear. What is present today
in the present is what matters, not what went before.
So destruction is death, and unrepentant sin is worthy of the lake of fire.
This is more so, if you have tasted of the truth, walked in its ways and then
rebel. How can one stand.
If you accept we are called to walk in holiness, purity and being blameless, to defile
this calling be deliberately sinning, is rebellion and apostacy against the very life and
freedom one has received.
Read Ezek 18:21-26
The principles of acceptance and rejection are very clear. What is present today
in the present is what matters, not what went before.
So destruction is death, and unrepentant sin is worthy of the lake of fire.
This is more so, if you have tasted of the truth, walked in its ways and then
rebel. How can one stand.
E
I do not get it, How can someone who continues in unbelief have ever been saved?
Thats like a person coming in, saying ok, I believe in jesus, Then continues a life of sin. Did they really TRUST Jesus? or was it all just words?
Then again, How can someone who has actually EXPERIENCED the true love of God, ever stop believing?
I see neither as possibilities.
Thats like a person coming in, saying ok, I believe in jesus, Then continues a life of sin. Did they really TRUST Jesus? or was it all just words?
Then again, How can someone who has actually EXPERIENCED the true love of God, ever stop believing?
I see neither as possibilities.
Walking with an open heart.
Wisdom comes from purity, blamelessness, forgiveness, healing and being washed by Gods
word and the Holy Spirit.
So much of the complexities and fears are driven from darkness in the heart, unresolved issues
rebellion and stubbornness, a lack of trust and openness.
God is a God of passion and clarity. It is why our intellectualism often blinds us from our own
pride and sin. Worse still if the sin is blatant admitted to and unrepented from or confessed?
All arguments fail, because we are called to walk holy, pure, blameless lives.
Wisdom comes from purity, blamelessness, forgiveness, healing and being washed by Gods
word and the Holy Spirit.
So much of the complexities and fears are driven from darkness in the heart, unresolved issues
rebellion and stubbornness, a lack of trust and openness.
God is a God of passion and clarity. It is why our intellectualism often blinds us from our own
pride and sin. Worse still if the sin is blatant admitted to and unrepented from or confessed?
All arguments fail, because we are called to walk holy, pure, blameless lives.