Is It Possible To Backslide
- Thread starter DustyRhodes
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Bepanding on what you think salvation is. If salvation is works and being good enough than you would think differently to someone that thinks salvation is simply believing that Jesus is real.
When it comes to works we will always be able to backslide and mess up, because we are not perfect. When it come to believing in Jesus i know about people that went to church and believed and than started to believe in evolution and that the bible is a fairy tail.
Choice is something we all have, if we don't have choice we would be robots.
Salvation to me is a relationship with Jesus and that means faith which results in works of love.
If my relationship is bad it's my choice because Jesus is doing everything to make the relationship work.
When it comes to works we will always be able to backslide and mess up, because we are not perfect. When it come to believing in Jesus i know about people that went to church and believed and than started to believe in evolution and that the bible is a fairy tail.
Choice is something we all have, if we don't have choice we would be robots.
Salvation to me is a relationship with Jesus and that means faith which results in works of love.
If my relationship is bad it's my choice because Jesus is doing everything to make the relationship work.
Can you say with certainty that their repentance did not come into play regarding that? And that all the rest also made it in even though perhaps they never did repent and stop their mistrust? Did that convey clearly? I can rephrase if it didn't. 
Show me the following...
1) Moses repenting for striking the rock twice when he was told to speak to it....
2) The people did REPENT and begged for the right to enter the very next day.......
UNDER the LAW punishments were afforded for rebellion....it had nothing to do with salvation per se........
a. Moses (representing the law) was killed by God after being ALLOWED to see the promise land, but was not allowed to enter
b. Moses was on the mount of Transfiguration in a glorified state....Proof that not being allowed to enter the promise land did not equate to a loss of salvation
c. And even Peter speaks to the disobedience of the believers who perished in the flood.....who were one time disobedient...
The problem with those who teach a works based salvation that can be lost is simple....they fail to understand the difference between salvation and fellowship.....
Salvation is based upon Christ and his work/faith/sacrifice/righteousness being applied to a believer by faith who is SEALED with the HOLY SPIRIT of PROMISE......
FELLOWSHIP is based upon the believer walking faithfully before GOD.......
Our fellowship can be broken by disobedience and sin, but our salvation remains secure by BIRTH.....
J
Pretty sure that someone who is walking with the Lord can make a decision to turn their back on him and walk away, which is different from making mistakes in one's walk.
David made mistakes, but God loved him anyway. David was justified by his faith just like Abraham was. Solomon, on the other hand, followed in his father's footsteps for a while but ended up rotten spiritually from the inside out (he became a satanist later essentially).
David made mistakes, but God loved him anyway. David was justified by his faith just like Abraham was. Solomon, on the other hand, followed in his father's footsteps for a while but ended up rotten spiritually from the inside out (he became a satanist later essentially).
Off the top of my head I think I remember Moses admitting his sin (repenting) when he said something like...you caused me to sin against the Lord, (as regards the water/rock incident) but I'd have to look it up.
As to your number two, I see the 40 years as refusing to trust God. If you see it as repentance, then maybe I've missed something.
As to your number two, I see the 40 years as refusing to trust God. If you see it as repentance, then maybe I've missed something.
Maybe I should have expounded more on what it seemed to me you were saying. Sorry about that.
If Moses' disobedience did not affect his ultimate outcome, how did their disobedience affect their ultimate outcome?
If Moses' disobedience did not affect his ultimate outcome, how did their disobedience affect their ultimate outcome?
Moses sinned, was refused entry into the promise land just as the people who sinned were not allowed to enter in.
This cannot be used to judge eternal salvation because later MOSES was seen on the Mount of Transfiguration....
That is the whole point...........under the law there were physical punishments afforded for sin.....even DAVID should have died for his sin with Uriah and Bathsheba.....but a bigger picture is found.....the innocent CHILD, the SON of DAVID took his place and paid the price.......
The bigger picture is JESUS......the innocent TOOK our PLACE and paid our PRICE which is death for sin.
So then I'm back to where I was again. Moses was disobedient and couldn't enter the promised land and they were disobedient and couldn't enter the promised land. But all were not affected as to their ultimate outcome? (That's a question. )
)
The whole generation had to live, bring up their children and die.
Without this the nation would not be purified. What a judgement on them all, to know
they had displeased God and could do nothing to put this right.
Where they saved, to dwell with God in heaven or under judgement to be tortured
in Hell for all eternity because of their rebellion?
If they were saved but cast out of the promise, then the church could be thrown
into the wilderness for a generation, until those hypocrites and unfaithful people
died out to be replaced with honest open people who will listen to God.