Is Jesus Christ a God ?

[zackabba]

[FONT=&quot]Is Jesus Christ a God?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Let’s try to see what The Holy Bible saying about it.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]New International Version (NIV)[/FONT]
Matthew 4[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’[[/FONT][FONT=&quot]e[/FONT][FONT=&quot]]” [/FONT]
Matthew 8

28 When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes,[c] two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. 29 “What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”
Matthew 10

32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
Matthew 11

25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26 Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.
Matthew 16

[FONT=&quot]12 Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees. [/FONT]
13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
[FONT=&quot] 14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
Matthew 18

[FONT=&quot]19 “Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.[/FONT]
Matthew 20

20 Then the mother of Zebedee’s sons came to Jesus with her sons and, kneeling down, asked a favor of him. 21 “What is it you want?” he asked. She said, “Grant that one of these two sons of mine may sit at your right and the other at your left in your kingdom.” 22 “You don’t know what you are asking,” Jesus said to them. “Can you drink the cup I am going to drink?” “We can,” they answered.
23 Jesus said to them, “You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father.” 24 When the ten heard about this, they were indignant with the two brothers.
Matthew 25

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
Matthew 26

[FONT=&quot]63 But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.” 64. “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”[/FONT]
Matthew 27

46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli,[c] lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”)
Luke 23

46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.”[e] When he had said this, he breathed his last.


[FONT=&quot]Lets see what happened when Jesus Christ taken up to sky.[/FONT]

Luke 24

50 When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them. 51 While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven.
Acts 1

9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
Daniel 7

13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
Revelation 5

1. Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals. 2. And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?” 3. But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. 4. I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. 5 Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”
6. Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits[a] of God sent out into all the earth. 7. He went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. 8. And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people.
Revelation 21

1 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
22. I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23. The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.


I hope after reading it you will agree with it that Lord Jesus Christ is Son of God he is not a God. So the denominations who say that Lord Jesus Christ is a God are heresiarch.

Hope to hear for your comments.

Let's take a look at Revelation 5, shall we?

I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a book written inside and on the back, sealed up with seven seals. 2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the book and to break its seals?” 3 And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the book or to look into it. 4 Then I began to weep greatly because no one was found worthy to open the book or to look into it; 5 and one of the elders *said to me, “Stop weeping; behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so as to open the book and its seven seals.”
6 And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. 7 And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne. 8 When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they *sang a new song, saying,

“Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.

10 “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.”

11 Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, 12 saying with a loud voice,
“Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing.”

13 And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying,

“To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever.”

14 And the four living creatures kept saying, “Amen.” And the elders fell down and worshiped.

Jesus is to be honored just as we honor the Father. If we don't believe that He IS, then we die in our sins.


Grace and Love

 

[Strangelove]

Let's take a look at Revelation 5, shall we?

I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a book written inside and on the back, sealed up with seven seals. 2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the book and to break its seals?” 3 And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the book or to look into it. 4 Then I began to weep greatly because no one was found worthy to open the book or to look into it; 5 and one of the elders *said to me, “Stop weeping; behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so as to open the book and its seven seals.”
6 And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. 7 And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne. 8 When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they *sang a new song, saying,

“Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.

10 “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.”

11 Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, 12 saying with a loud voice,
“Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing.”

13 And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying,

“To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever.”

14 And the four living creatures kept saying, “Amen.” And the elders fell down and worshiped.

Jesus is to be honored just as we honor the Father. If we don't believe that He IS, then we die in our sins.


Grace and Love

Ooooh....another good one I never noticed before.

This proves Jesus is God without any doubt. (to Christians anyway)

 

[loveschild]

[FONT=&quot]Is Jesus Christ a God?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Let’s try to see what The Holy Bible saying about it.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]New International Version (NIV)[/FONT]
Matthew 4

[FONT=&quot]8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’[[/FONT][FONT=&quot]e[/FONT][FONT=&quot]]” [/FONT]
Matthew 8

28 When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes,[c] two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. 29 “What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”
Matthew 10

32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
Matthew 11

25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26 Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.
Matthew 16

[FONT=&quot]12 Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees. [/FONT]
13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
[FONT=&quot] 14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.[/FONT]

Matthew 18

[FONT=&quot]19 “Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.[/FONT]
Matthew 20

20 Then the mother of Zebedee’s sons came to Jesus with her sons and, kneeling down, asked a favor of him. 21 “What is it you want?” he asked. She said, “Grant that one of these two sons of mine may sit at your right and the other at your left in your kingdom.” 22 “You don’t know what you are asking,” Jesus said to them. “Can you drink the cup I am going to drink?” “We can,” they answered.
23 Jesus said to them, “You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father.” 24 When the ten heard about this, they were indignant with the two brothers.
Matthew 25

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
Matthew 26

[FONT=&quot]63 But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.” 64. “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”[/FONT]
Matthew 27

46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli,[c] lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”)
Luke 23

46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.”[e] When he had said this, he breathed his last.


[FONT=&quot]Lets see what happened when Jesus Christ taken up to sky.[/FONT]

Luke 24

50 When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them. 51 While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven.
Acts 1

9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
Daniel 7

13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
Revelation 5

1. Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals. 2. And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?” 3. But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. 4. I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. 5 Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”
6. Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits[a] of God sent out into all the earth. 7. He went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. 8. And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people.
Revelation 21

1 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
22. I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23. The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.


I hope after reading it you will agree with it that Lord Jesus Christ is Son of God he is not a God. So the denominations who say that Lord Jesus Christ is a God are heresiarch.

Hope to hear for your comments.

Yes he is God! Yay!

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

"One doesn't have to be a default indoctrinated three God-"persons" Trinitarian to know and understand that Jesus is God manifested in the flesh."

You just have to be a Trinitarian.

Nope. I'm not Trinitarian and I understand that Jesus is God manifested in the flesh. Oneness believers do as well.

"He's not 1/3 of God, and "God the Father", "God the Son", nor "God the Holy Spirit" are biblically expressed."

I think you mean "God the Son" nor "God the Spirit" are "biblically expressed. God the Father certainly is...if you deny that at least...then you better start looking through the New Testament again. It's at the beginning of every one of Paul's letters.

Yes, a careless inclusion on my part. The point remains. He's not 1/3 of God, and scripture doesn't speak of God the Son or God the Holy Spirit.

"They are inferred just as Trinity is contrived and inferred. God is not "person(s)" of ANY quantity."

What would be a better word for it?

The Spirit, Soul, and Body (embodiment) of God. The F/S/HS aren't distinct eternally pre-existent "persons". Jesus is the prosopon of God manifested in the flesh.

God's Soul/the Father was well pleased in the Son.

Aspects of God was used in the Ante-Nicene period prior to man's insufficient doctrinal formulation of God's constitution as "persons". I could marginally live with that as a descriptive (not defining) term.

God embodied His Divine eternal substance in Jesus within the temporal. One God-"person" didn't send another God-"person". God didn't manifest one of His three selves in the flesh; God manifested His OWN self in the flesh.

Well, the Father is said to have sent Jesus to do His will, to die on the cross...so a person *did* send a person.

And yes, God was manifest in the flesh.

That is creedal inference. Scripture nowhere presents the Father as a "person". Hupostasis (twice) and prosopon (once) are only used of Jesus. Jesus is the personification of God. IF God were a "person", He would be one.

Trinity is Tritheism with a technicality provided by manufacturing a new definition of an existing word (person) and extra-biblically superimposing it upon God in triplicate. Now we have 17 millennia of default indoctrination to propogate this error of incompleteness. And... Western Trinis are overwhelmingly Filioque, which is further error.

I doubt you or anyone else could/would out aside gross bias to consider anything but fallacious Orthodox creedalism, but the truth remains... God is NOT three "persons" according to Scripture. Only according to inferred doctrine of man.

Grace and Love

Yes, and likewise returned to you.

 

[Strangelove]

I was never too hot on the '3 distinct persons' thingee either.

But I think its a futile debate. The Godhead is triune in nature.

Jesus is divine....He's God.

thats all I gotto say.

 

[journey41]

[FONT=&quot]Is Jesus Christ a God?[/FONT]​

​

[FONT=&quot]Let’s try to see what The Holy Bible saying about it.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]New International Version (NIV)[/FONT]
Matthew 4

[FONT=&quot]8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’[[/FONT][FONT=&quot]e[/FONT][FONT=&quot]]” [/FONT]
Matthew 8

28 When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes,[c] two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. 29 “What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”
Matthew 10

32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
Matthew 11

25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26 Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.
Matthew 16

[FONT=&quot]12 Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees. [/FONT]
13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
[FONT=&quot]14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.[/FONT]

Matthew 18

[FONT=&quot]19 “Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.[/FONT]
Matthew 20

20 Then the mother of Zebedee’s sons came to Jesus with her sons and, kneeling down, asked a favor of him. 21 “What is it you want?” he asked. She said, “Grant that one of these two sons of mine may sit at your right and the other at your left in your kingdom.” 22 “You don’t know what you are asking,” Jesus said to them. “Can you drink the cup I am going to drink?” “We can,” they answered.
23 Jesus said to them, “You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father.” 24 When the ten heard about this, they were indignant with the two brothers.
Matthew 25

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
Matthew 26

[FONT=&quot]63 But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.” 64. “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”[/FONT]
Matthew 27

46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli,[c] lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”)
Luke 23

46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.”[e] When he had said this, he breathed his last.


[FONT=&quot]Lets see what happened when Jesus Christ taken up to sky.[/FONT]

Luke 24

50 When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them. 51 While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven.
Acts 1

9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
Daniel 7

13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
Revelation 5

1. Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals. 2. And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?” 3. But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. 4. I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. 5 Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”
6. Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits[a] of God sent out into all the earth. 7. He went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. 8. And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people.
Revelation 21

1 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
22. I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23. The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.


I hope after reading it you will agree with it that Lord Jesus Christ is Son of God he is not a God. So the denominations who say that Lord Jesus Christ is a God are heresiarch.

Hope to hear for your comments.

Amen. To say anything different would be to take the glory away that the Father gave his son.

 

[journey41]

~ Jesus Is God ~
Jesus is the Creator -
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.(John 1:3)

Jesus is the Mighty God -
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.(Isaiah 9:6)

Jesus is the Power of God -
But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.(1 Corinthians 1:24)

Jesus is the Lamb of God -
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.(John 1:29)

Jesus is the Image of God -
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.(2 Corinthians 4:4)

Jesus is God in Flesh -
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. (1 Timothy 3:16)

Scriptures -

Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.(Deuteronomy 4:35)

Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?(10)Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.(John 14:9-10)

I and my Father are one.(John 10:30)

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. (John 8:24)

Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.(John 8:28)

Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our
lives for the brethren.(1 John 3:16)


Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. (Isaiah 43:10-11)

And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.(Exodus 3:14)

And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.(Zechariah 14:9)

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.. (John 1:1)

Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen (Romans 9:5)

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.(John 20:28-29)

GOD BLESS AMEN

God's voice was speaking through Jesus when he said those words "I am". It was really God speaking. That is why Jesus is called "The Word of God' the Living Word that is.

Jesus and God are one in spirit.
We are one with Christ if we believe in him.
Does that make us Christ?

 

[timothy10]

God's voice was speaking through Jesus when he said those words "I am". It was really God speaking. That is why Jesus is called "The Word of God' the Living Word that is.

Jesus and God are one in spirit.
We are one with Christ if we believe in him.
Does that make us Christ?

God the I Am and I Am He -

And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. ( Exodus 3:13-14)

Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. ( Isaiah 43:10-11 )

I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins. ( Isaiah 43:25 )

Jesus the I Am and I Am He -

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
( John 8:24-28 )

They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth.
Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:
( John 18:5-8 )

And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. ( Revelation 1:17-18 )

Jesus is God

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

I was never too hot on the '3 distinct persons' thingee either.

But I think its a futile debate. The Godhead is triune in nature.

Jesus is divine....He's God.

thats all I gotto say.

It's certainly futile in light of overwhelming Orthodox indoctrination; but futile is not moot in the sense of it making no difference. Triune is a definition that is relative to the specific doctrinal construct of Trinity "persons", and is the precariously thin distinction from Tritheism based on one word.

The deeper question is... Is Jesus merely divine, yet a separate "person"... Or... Is Jesus truly God manifest in the flesh. Tritheists and Triadists also believe Jesus is Divine.

Did God embody Himself in flesh? Or did a second-self of three selfs become Incarnate and help send the third self to indwell us. Apart from the Incarnation, are the Son and Holy Spirit separate selves from the Father? Are there three completely distinct centers of sentient consciousness? It's interesting that the Holy Spirit never interacts as a "person" with the Father and the pre-Incarnate or Incarnate Son.

"Person" is a fallacious well-beyond-semantics manufactured defining (not descriptive) term, upon which hinges the entire Trinity doctrine and any relative triune reference. Sabellianism (Monarchianism/Patripassianism) is closer to truth than is Trinitarianism. I'm not Oneness of any construct, but God is MUCH more one than three. The One God manifested the substance of Himself in flesh as the Logos, which divided asunder His Soul/Spirit to distribute His OWN Spirit to indwell those who are His.

God is either a Him or a Them. Trinity tries to split the difference and stake out the nebulous middle ground of both. It boils down to... How many distinct minds/wills of sentient centers of consciousness does God have?

 

[Strangelove]

It's certainly futile in light of overwhelming Orthodox indoctrination; but futile is not moot in the sense of it making no difference. Triune is a definition that is relative to the specific doctrinal construct of Trinity "persons", and is the precariously thin distinction from Tritheism based on one word.

The deeper question is... Is Jesus merely divine, yet a separate "person"... Or... Is Jesus truly God manifest in the flesh. Tritheists and Triadists also believe Jesus is Divine.

Did God embody Himself in flesh? Or did a second-self of three selfs become Incarnate and help send the third self to indwell us. Apart from the Incarnation, are the Son and Holy Spirit separate selves from the Father? Are there three completely distinct centers of sentient consciousness? It's interesting that the Holy Spirit never interacts as a "person" with the Father and the pre-Incarnate or Incarnate Son.

"Person" is a fallacious well-beyond-semantics manufactured defining (not descriptive) term, upon which hinges the entire Trinity doctrine and any relative triune reference. Sabellianism (Monarchianism/Patripassianism) is closer to truth than is Trinitarianism. I'm not Oneness of any construct, but God is MUCH more one than three. The One God manifested the substance of Himself in flesh as the Logos, which divided asunder His Soul/Spirit to distribute His OWN Spirit to indwell those who are His.

God is either a Him or a Them. Trinity tries to split the difference and stake out the nebulous middle ground of both. It boils down to... How many distinct minds/wills of sentient centers of consciousness does God have?

I think your overalyzing the exact mechanisms by which God manifests Himself.

We just dont know.

This:

Triune is a definition that is relative to the specific doctrinal construct of Trinity "persons"

...has nothing to do with me.

Triune just means 3 in 1.

I can say triune.

 

[zackabba]

Nope. I'm not Trinitarian and I understand that Jesus is God manifested in the flesh. Oneness believers do as well.



Yes, a careless inclusion on my part. The point remains. He's not 1/3 of God, and scripture doesn't speak of God the Son or God the Holy Spirit.



The Spirit, Soul, and Body (embodiment) of God. The F/S/HS aren't distinct eternally pre-existent "persons". Jesus is the prosopon of God manifested in the flesh.

God's Soul/the Father was well pleased in the Son.

Aspects of God was used in the Ante-Nicene period prior to man's insufficient doctrinal formulation of God's constitution as "persons". I could marginally live with that as a descriptive (not defining) term.



That is creedal inference. Scripture nowhere presents the Father as a "person". Hupostasis (twice) and prosopon (once) are only used of Jesus. Jesus is the personification of God. IF God were a "person", He would be one.

Trinity is Tritheism with a technicality provided by manufacturing a new definition of an existing word (person) and extra-biblically superimposing it upon God in triplicate. Now we have 17 millennia of default indoctrination to propogate this error of incompleteness. And... Western Trinis are overwhelmingly Filioque, which is further error.

I doubt you or anyone else could/would out aside gross bias to consider anything but fallacious Orthodox creedalism, but the truth remains... God is NOT three "persons" according to Scripture. Only according to inferred doctrine of man.



Yes, and likewise returned to you.

Well, I'm not going to get into an argument about this, seeing that you probably have much more wisdom than I about this matter.

However you would define God, one fact remains: We can never know everything about Him. That's what's so great about Him! We'll never be able to put Him into a box and say "Here you are." He's the one that put us into the world and said "I AM."


(on one point, I believe that most Trinitarians, even if you think they're Tri-theists, would reject Tritheism, including me)


Grace and Love

 

[zackabba]

God's voice was speaking through Jesus when he said those words "I am". It was really God speaking. That is why Jesus is called "The Word of God' the Living Word that is.

Jesus and God are one in spirit.
We are one with Christ if we believe in him.
Does that make us Christ?

Was the Father speaking through Christ when Christ was praying to the Father?

 

[zackabba]

It's certainly futile in light of overwhelming Orthodox indoctrination; but futile is not moot in the sense of it making no difference. Triune is a definition that is relative to the specific doctrinal construct of Trinity "persons", and is the precariously thin distinction from Tritheism based on one word.

The deeper question is... Is Jesus merely divine, yet a separate "person"... Or... Is Jesus truly God manifest in the flesh. Tritheists and Triadists also believe Jesus is Divine.

Did God embody Himself in flesh? Or did a second-self of three selfs become Incarnate and help send the third self to indwell us. Apart from the Incarnation, are the Son and Holy Spirit separate selves from the Father? Are there three completely distinct centers of sentient consciousness? It's interesting that the Holy Spirit never interacts as a "person" with the Father and the pre-Incarnate or Incarnate Son.

"Person" is a fallacious well-beyond-semantics manufactured defining (not descriptive) term, upon which hinges the entire Trinity doctrine and any relative triune reference. Sabellianism (Monarchianism/Patripassianism) is closer to truth than is Trinitarianism. I'm not Oneness of any construct, but God is MUCH more one than three. The One God manifested the substance of Himself in flesh as the Logos, which divided asunder His Soul/Spirit to distribute His OWN Spirit to indwell those who are His.

God is either a Him or a Them. Trinity tries to split the difference and stake out the nebulous middle ground of both. It boils down to... How many distinct minds/wills of sentient centers of consciousness does God have?

I think one thing we all have to realize is (not that it's bad, but) that the early church did not spend this much time formulating their doctrine of God. What I mean is, when they worshiped Jesus "as a god (as Pliny the Younger would say)" they saw no conflict between that and monotheistic Judaism (which they still were a part of, mostly, at this time). So when Paul wrote down a (possible) hymn of the early church in Philippians 2:5-11, they took it for granted that Christ was indeed pre-existent, and I doubt they spent much time thinking of how He fit in the "Godhead."


Just my input on it.


Grace and Love

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

I think one thing we all have to realize is (not that it's bad, but) that the early church did not spend this much time formulating their doctrine of God. What I mean is, when they worshiped Jesus "as a god (as Pliny the Younger would say)" they saw no conflict between that and monotheistic Judaism (which they still were a part of, mostly, at this time). So when Paul wrote down a (possible) hymn of the early church in Philippians 2:5-11, they took it for granted that Christ was indeed pre-existent, and I doubt they spent much time thinking of how He fit in the "Godhead."


Just my input on it.


Grace and Love

I actually wholly agree, hence my gripe with intricately, specifically man-formulated Trinity doctrine and its various "stacked" internal doctrines like perichoresis, etc. I simply refute the existing erroneous formulation. (I wholly affirm the pre-existence of Christ.)

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

I think your overalyzing the exact mechanisms by which God manifests Himself.

We just dont know.

This:

Triune is a definition that is relative to the specific doctrinal construct of Trinity "persons"

...has nothing to do with me.

Triune just means 3 in 1.

I can say triune.

It's no more over-analysis than varying eschatological views. Trinity is quite a substantial analysis, yes? Would you not consider it an over-analysis? The nature and constitution of God is worth at least as much as an end-times view. I can provide an extensive exegesis and apologetic along with my Trinity challenge. It's seldom received, since few care to delve into details beyond conceptual assent. We CAN know. But I have no challenge for you personally.

Three "whats?" in one "what?".

You certainly may say triune (or anything else). Most do. I can't imagine why a Sola Scriptura adherent would do so, though, since it is based on creedal dogma of institutional authority rather than Scripture. Why the Reformation retained such dogma is attributable to the unfortunate influence of Augustine. His contributions are my detractions from Reformed Theology, especially His Filioque clause.

It may be more impotant than you (and most) realize.

 

[Strangelove]

I think one thing we all have to realize is (not that it's bad, but) that the early church did not spend this much time formulating their doctrine of God. What I mean is, when they worshiped Jesus "as a god (as Pliny the Younger would say)" they saw no conflict between that and monotheistic Judaism (which they still were a part of, mostly, at this time). So when Paul wrote down a (possible) hymn of the early church in Philippians 2:5-11, they took it for granted that Christ was indeed pre-existent, and I doubt they spent much time thinking of how He fit in the "Godhead."


Just my input on it.


Grace and Love

Yeah and I think we should go back to thinking like that.

I.E. not thinking about it so much.

True Christians know that God is one.

Scripture talks of 3 major aspects/manifestations of God.

It's a TRI-whatever nature.

Good post Zack.

 

[Strangelove]

It's no more over-analysis than varying eschatological views. Trinity is quite a substantial analysis, yes? Would you not consider it an over-analysis? The nature and constitution of God is worth at least as much as an end-times view. I can provide an extensive exegesis and apologetic along with my Trinity challenge. It's seldom received, since few care to delve into details beyond conceptual assent. We CAN know. But I have no challenge for you personally.

Three "whats?" in one "what?".

You certainly may say triune (or anything else). Most do. I can't imagine why a Sola Scriptura adherent would do so, though, since it is based on creedal dogma of institutional authority rather than Scripture. Why the Reformation retained such dogma is attributable to the unfortunate influence of Augustine. His contributions are my detractions from Reformed Theology, especially His Filioque clause.

It may be more impotant than you (and most) realize.

You keep giving ownership of the word TRIUNE to certain orthodox groups.

Why do they get to have ownership on that word?

I've got nothing to do with them so I can use it in its most simplest sense (3 in 1) to describe the Godhead.

Scripture describes a 3 in 1 Godhead. It absolutely does.

3 what in one what?

Who cares! I dint specify what......so you cant say use of the word is unscriptural.

Just because 'institutions' attach a creedal dogma to a simple word doesnt automatically mean that no one else can use that word in its simplest sense.

I understand your concern, but triune just means 3 in 1.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

You keep giving ownership of the word TRIUNE to certain orthodox groups.

Why do they get to have ownership on that word?

I've got nothing to do with them so I can use it in its most simplest sense (3 in 1) to describe the Godhead.

Scripture describes a 3 in 1 Godhead. It absolutely does.

3 what in one what?

Who cares! I dint specify what......so you cant say use of the word is unscriptural.

Just because 'institutions' attach a creedal dogma to a simple word doesnt automatically mean that no one else can use that word in its simplest sense.

I understand your concern, but triune just means 3 in 1.

Orthodoxy staked its own claim to such terms. I was just alluding to it for clarification.

You underestimate the pervasive misperception of the Oneness of God by Trinitarians.

I've not intended to restrict your expressive choice of terminology. I was just answering the questions you posed, and in a manner in which I would universally do so. You don't have default dogma issues about the Godhead.

The extensive, intricate, and long-standing Trinity doctrinal formulation needs a response of like kind after having gone so far beyond the Ante-Nicene simplicity you and Zack refer to. Individuals can go back to that simplicity, but it's difficult to maintain any sense of comprehensive apologetic with such a nebulous generality. Doctrinal formulation of the Godhead began for that very reason. Justin Martyr and others became early apologists to defend the faith against many attacks because doctrine wasn't yet defined.

A thorough apologetic is vital. It needs to be more correct than Trinity. I have a burden to participate in clarifying such details. You needn't have that same passion if not moved by the Spirit. No pressure from me.

In eschatological parlance, it's like dealing with self-proclaimed "Pan-Millenialists" who take no real stand because they haven't a clue how to determine or defend what they believe. They're all adamant Futurist/Chiliast, though; and many/most are "Dispy Lite".

I think specific scriptural truth is vital regarding Godhead doctrine, eschatology, and other areas. It will remain my fervent and zealous endeavor to expose and challenge that which I'm convinced is fallacious dogma. You do the same in areas that you choose.

Be blessed in your labors for the truth of the Word.

 

[Strangelove]

Orthodoxy staked its own claim to such terms. I was just alluding to it for clarification.

You underestimate the pervasive misperception of the Oneness of God by Trinitarians.

I've not intended to restrict your expressive choice of terminology. I was just answering the questions you posed, and in a manner in which I would universally do so. You don't have default dogma issues about the Godhead.

The extensive, intricate, and long-standing Trinity doctrinal formulation needs a response of like kind after having gone so far beyond the Ante-Nicene simplicity you and Zack refer to. Individuals can go back to that simplicity, but it's difficult to maintain any sense of comprehensive apologetic with such a nebulous generality. Doctrinal formulation of the Godhead began for that very reason. Justin Martyr and others became early apologists to defend the faith against many attacks because doctrine wasn't yet defined.

A thorough apologetic is vital. It needs to be more correct than Trinity. I have a burden to participate in clarifying such details. You needn't have that same passion if not moved by the Spirit. No pressure from me.

In eschatological parlance, it's like dealing with self-proclaimed "Pan-Millenialists" who take no real stand because they haven't a clue how to determine or defend what they believe. They're all adamant Futurist/Chiliast, though; and many/most are "Dispy Lite".

I think specific scriptural truth is vital regarding Godhead doctrine, eschatology, and other areas. It will remain my fervent and zealous endeavor to expose and challenge that which I'm convinced is fallacious dogma. You do the same in areas that you choose.

Be blessed in your labors for the truth of the Word.

Well....am I allowed to use the word 'triune' without being called unscriptural?

I have every right to reclaim that word from whatever creedal dogmas have been imposed on it by institutions.

For that matter, the same can be said of the word trinity and trinitarian.

I am a simple trinitarian. Not according to any misuse of the word by institutions but according to the simple meaning of the word.

Scripture describes a 3 in 1 Godhead. Thats what the trinity is. Regardless of any allusions to "persons" or "distinctions".

I am reclaiming the word trinity.

 

[Smokeykiller51]

read : More Than a Carpenter by Josh Mcdowell,Sean Mcdowell ~ its pretty good talks about this topic aswell as talking about how sceince actually helps prove God