Is Jesus's return imminent?

[Nehemiah6]

This is not scriptural support that Jesus Christ will not come down to the Earth.. All this verse says is that when Jesus comes we shall be caught up to meet Him... It says nothing about what happens or where we are going after...

While that passage does not say anything about "where we are going after", John 14:1-3 certainly does. For Christ "my Father's house" could mean only one thing -- God's Heaven.

And since the New Jerusalem is in Heaven, and is also the eternal home of the saints, those mansions referred to are mansions in the New Jerusalem. It is a disgrace for some translation to call them rooms when the Greek word literally means "abodes" and the grace of God is so great that He has created a 1,500 cubic mile city to accommodate those mansions. So there is no doubt that when you connect John 14:1-3 with all the other passages regarding the Resurrection/Rapture, that Christ takes all His glorified saints to Heaven.

I find it simply amazing how Christians can confuse the coming of Christ FOR His Bride "in the air" with His coming to earth WITH His saints and angels, and bringing severe judgments with Him to earth.

 

[Ahwatukee]

So our eternal home the New Jerusalem you contend is not coming down to earth? So we are not going to be living on the new earth.. Then when Jesus said the Meek shall inherit the earth was he mistaken?
Matthew 5: KJV
{5} Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth."


So you believe this is impossible for God to do??? I don't I believe God can do all things..

Hello Adstar,

I personally believe that the New Jerusalem may orbit the new earth, like our moon. Scripture states that the those on the earth will walk by its light, which would seem to infer that the new Jerusalem would have to be above the earth in order to give it light.

 

[Adstar]

While that passage does not say anything about "where we are going after", John 14:1-3 certainly does. For Christ "my Father's house" could mean only one thing -- God's Heaven.

And since the New Jerusalem is in Heaven, and is also the eternal home of the saints, those mansions referred to are mansions in the New Jerusalem. It is a disgrace for some translation to call them rooms when the Greek word literally means "abodes" and the grace of God is so great that He has created a 1,500 cubic mile city to accommodate those mansions. So there is no doubt that when you connect John 14:1-3 with all the other passages regarding the Resurrection/Rapture, that Christ takes all His glorified saints to Heaven.

I find it simply amazing how Christians can confuse the coming of Christ FOR His Bride "in the air" with His coming to earth WITH His saints and angels, and bringing severe judgments with Him to earth.

But again.. The Holy Bible declares that the New Jerusalem is going to come Out of Heaven... So therefore if the New Jerusalem is our eternal home then we cannot be spending eternity in heaven... This is so simple and clear..

Revelation 21: KJV
2 "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. {3} And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God."

 

[Ahwatukee]

I find it simply amazing how Christians can confuse the coming of Christ FOR His Bride "in the air" with His coming to earth WITH His saints and angels, and bringing severe judgments with Him to earth.

I agree, yet so many do, as well as not even believing in the Lord's promise to return and gather the church.

 

[Adstar]

Hello Adstar,

I personally believe that the New Jerusalem may orbit the new earth, like our moon. Scripture states that the those on the earth will walk by its light, which would seem to infer that the new Jerusalem would have to be above the earth in order to give it light.

The scripture say we shall dwell in the New Jerusalem.. So if it is in orbit and we are living on the earth as you believe then we shall not be lioving in the New Jerusalem.. The New Jerusalem which is currently in Heaven where Jesus went to prepare places for us. Come on Ahwartukee join the dots..

Revelation 22: KJV
1 "And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. {2} In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. {3} And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: {4} And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. {5} And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever."


So there will be a river flowing from the New Jerusalem is it going to be flowing into outer space? And there is the tree of life within the New Jerusalem which bares fruits for us and It's leaves are for our healing.. Are we going to be living on the new earth while the Holy City is orbiting in space? Nope The New Jerusalem is going down and landing on the New Earth nd we shall dwell in it for eternity

 

[Ahwatukee]

The scripture say we shall dwell in the New Jerusalem.. So if it is in orbit and we are living on the earth as you believe then we shall not be lioving in the New Jerusalem.. The New Jerusalem which is currently in Heaven where Jesus went to prepare places for us. Come on Ahwartukee join the dots..

How would it be possible for the New Jerusalem to give light to the earth if it was sitting on it. As an example, if the moon was sitting on the earth it could not give light to the entire earth, only a portion of it. If the New Jerusalem was sitting on the earth, then only one area of the earth would be lit and the majority of the earth would be dark, because the new Jerusalem would remain in a fixed area. Besides this, I said "it may orbit the earth." There is just not enough information to know the answer to that. But, Nehemiah6 was correct in that, the scripture only says that the new Jerusalem is "coming down out of heaven from God." It does not say that it lands and settles on the earth. I can assure you, I have joined the dots over and over and over again, as I have gone over this information for many years.

There are a few questions that are unanswered regarding eternity in the new Jerusalem such as, who are the nations living on the earth and why are the leaves of the tree of life necessary for healing since everyone becomes immortal and glorified at the time of the resurrection and gathering?

So there will be a river flowing from the New Jerusalem is it going to be flowing into outer space?

I think that you should rethink your question, because since the New Jerusalem is approx. 1500 miles wide, long and high, that would mean that the city would be sticking well out into space beyond the atmosphere by about 1450 miles, since space is only 50 to 60 miles from the earth's surface. So, your concern about the city being in space is irrelevant, because whether your way or my way, it will be in space.

 

[JaumeJ]

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

Instant here may be understood as urgent in today's language.

 

[beta]

[/COLOR]

I agree, yet so many do, as well as not even believing in the Lord's promise to return and gather the church.

Which church would that be ? all these 'sunday-observing denominations who never had His mandate ?

 

[Ahwatukee]

Which church would that be ? all these 'sunday-observing denominations who never had His mandate ?

There are Seventh Day Adventists and there are those who are not of this group who have adopted this believing that the mark of the beast is symbolic for not observing the Sabbath on Saturday. To them the hand and the forehead are symbolic with the hand representing "action" and the forehead representing "making a decision." From these two they get making the decision to observe the Sabbath on Sunday as symbolic for receiving the mark of the beast.

If you keep your eyes open, you will see them making this very claim on the forum.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

But again.. The Holy Bible declares that the New Jerusalem is going to come Out of Heaven... So therefore if the New Jerusalem is our eternal home then we cannot be spending eternity in heaven... This is so simple and clear..

Revelation 21: KJV
2 "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. {3} And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God."

Take into consideration that God and his Kingdom are not confined to 3 dimensional space and linear time. The kingdom coming "down" is likely to be the closest way to describe the Kingdom entering our physical experience while it's actual coming is from more than three directions. The Kingdom is breaking through from directions we don't even have a concept of. That's why it is "inside you" even though 'inside you' might seem like an impossibly small place to find a kingdom. That is what he has done. The Kingdom is inside us, yet one day we will see it 'coming down' out of heaven. It doesn't matter that it is described as physically too huge to fit on the planet. The earth may look very small in comparison to the observable universe but on spiritual levels it may just be the intersection and centre of everything. (if that is how he made it) It's important to God, we know that. He will be making all things new anyway. That's the REALLY exciting thing.



Ephesians 4:9-10

(What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions[c]?10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

So there will be a river flowing from the New Jerusalem is it going to be flowing into outer space?

I think that you should rethink your question, because since the New Jerusalem is approx. 1500 miles wide, long and high, that would mean that the city would be sticking well out into space beyond the atmosphere by about 1450 miles, since space is only 50 to 60 miles from the earth's surface. So, your concern about the city being in space is irrelevant, because whether your way or my way, it will be in space.

A better explanation might be that the new city will transcend space and time. (at the risk of sounding like a Buhddist)

The river that flows from the throne of God, is the water of life. Rivers of LIVING water. It doesn't mean a literal wet river.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Good morning Lucy,

Take into consideration that God and his Kingdom are not confined to 3 dimensional space and linear time. The kingdom coming "down" is likely to be the closest way to describe the Kingdom entering our physical experience while it's actual coming is from more than three directions. The Kingdom is breaking through from directions we don't even have a concept of. That's why it is "inside you" even though 'inside you' might seem like an impossibly small place to find a kingdom. That is what he has done. The Kingdom is inside us, yet one day we will see it 'coming down' out of heaven. It doesn't matter that it is described as physically too huge to fit on the planet. The earth may look very small in comparison to the observable universe but on spiritual levels it may just be the intersection and centre of everything. (if that is how he made it) It's important to God, we know that. He will be making all things new anyway. That's the REALLY exciting thing.



Ephesians 4:9-10

(What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions[c]?10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

The problem with that interpretation, is that we are given exact measurements of the width, depth and height of the city, as well as the thickness of the walls, that there will be twelve gates made each from a single pearl, that that names of the twelve tribes of Israel will be written on, with the names of the twelve apostles written each foundation of the city. It will be garnished with precious gems and will have an angel at each gate. The tree of life will be there, which a literal tree that was in the garden of Eden, there will be no sun or moon to shine on it and there will be no oceans.

In addition, Jesus told his disciples and therefore all believers, that he was going to prepare dwelling places for us there and that he would come back and get us to take us there.

These are all detailed accounts of the New Jerusalem, which should be taken in the literal sense, since there is nothing in the context that would lead the reader to a symbolic meaning. There two chapters of detailed information regarding this city. And when you have that much detail, it should be taken in the literal sense.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Good morning Lucy,



The problem with that interpretation, is that we are given exact measurements of the width, depth and height of the city, as well as the thickness of the walls, that there will be twelve gates made each from a single pearl, that that names of the twelve tribes of Israel will be written on, with the names of the twelve apostles written each foundation of the city. It will be garnished with precious gems and will have an angel at each gate. The tree of life will be there, which a literal tree that was in the garden of Eden, there will be no sun or moon to shine on it and there will be no oceans.

In addition, Jesus told his disciples and therefore all believers, that he was going to prepare dwelling places for us there and that he would come back and get us to take us there.

These are all detailed accounts of the New Jerusalem, which should be taken in the literal sense, since there is nothing in the context that would lead the reader to a symbolic meaning. There two chapters of detailed information regarding this city. And when you have that much detail, it should be taken in the literal sense.

I know that. But I don't agree that there is nothing in the context to lead the reader to a symbolic meaning. In fact I would call that a far-fetched assertion. You seem to be setting limits on God. The Bible is a communication from the Spirit.
Do you not know that scripture speaks SIMULTANEOUSLY in a literal AND a spiritual context?

The Tree of Life was, is and will be Jesus.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I know that. But I don't agree that there is nothing in the context to lead the reader to a symbolic meaning. In fact I would call that a far-fetched assertion. You seem to be setting limits on God. The Bible is a communication from the Spirit.
Do you not know that scripture speaks SIMULTANEOUSLY in a literal AND a spiritual context?

The Tree of Life was, is and will be Jesus.

There has to be some indication in the scripture to alert the reader that the information is symbolic. There is nothing in the context that would support that.

The tree of life was and is a real leaf and fruit bearing tree. We know this because it was in the garden of Eden with many other literal fruit trees, not symbolic or allegorical fruit trees. We know that it was not symbolic because after Adam and Eve ate from the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, God place a cherubim at the entrance to the garden to keep them from eating the fruit of life.

One of the biggest problems with many expositors today is the interpreting of scriptures that are meant to be received literally and are being interpreted symbolically, allegorically or spiritually. When this happens it distorts the meaning that God means to convey. Another way of discerning as to whether an event or thing should be interpreted in the literal sense or symbolically, is its mention elsewhere in scripture in the literal sense. Regarding this consider the following:

Here we have John's vision of the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God:

"Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[SUP]a[/SUP] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’[SUP]b[/SUP] or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

In the scripture below, we have Paul referring to this same city:

"By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. 10For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God."

"All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

The new Jerusalem is a real city, with real dimensions, with real water, real fruit, real angels, real mansions, etc., etc.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

The new Jerusalem is a real city, with real dimensions, with real water, real fruit, real angels, real mansions, etc., etc.

I never said it wasn't.

 

[ComeLordJesus]

The Tree of Life was, is and will be Jesus.

If you're referring to the tree in New Jerusalem from the description it is a literal tree. I don't think it can be spiritualized.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

If you're referring to the tree in New Jerusalem from the description it is a literal tree. I don't think it can be spiritualized.

Who heals the nations?

Rev 22:2

down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations

 

[Locutus]

Of course the tree of life and the river of life are not literal.

Anybody who has received the holy spirit is drinking from the river of life.

John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Rev 22:1 And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

 

[Adstar]

How would it be possible for the New Jerusalem to give light to the earth if it was sitting on it. As an example, if the moon was sitting on the earth it could not give light to the entire earth, only a portion of it. If the New Jerusalem was sitting on the earth, then only one area of the earth would be lit and the majority of the earth would be dark, because the new Jerusalem would remain in a fixed area.

Why does the entire earth have to be in light at the time of the coming of the New Jerusalem ?????

And then again the scriptures only say that the Holy City will not need any sunlight or moonlight.. This is not saying there will be no Sun or Moon .. It is simply stating that the light within the city will be created by God and it will have no need for the Sun and Moon.. Maybe the City will have a roof Maybe it will be totally enclosed Box.. It is a 3 dimensional box and it's lengh and bredth and heigh are the same..

Think of a Borg Cube of Star trek.. But much, much bigger ..

 

[Adstar]

Take into consideration that God and his Kingdom are not confined to 3 dimensional space and linear time. The kingdom coming "down" is likely to be the closest way to describe the Kingdom entering our physical experience while it's actual coming is from more than three directions. The Kingdom is breaking through from directions we don't even have a concept of. That's why it is "inside you" even though 'inside you' might seem like an impossibly small place to find a kingdom. That is what he has done. The Kingdom is inside us, yet one day we will see it 'coming down' out of heaven. It doesn't matter that it is described as physically too huge to fit on the planet. The earth may look very small in comparison to the observable universe but on spiritual levels it may just be the intersection and centre of everything. (if that is how he made it) It's important to God, we know that. He will be making all things new anyway. That's the REALLY exciting thing.



Ephesians 4:9-10

(What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions[c]?10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

No i reject the over symbolizing of this part of Revelation.. The Holy City, the New Jerusalem is not some symbolic representation of some spiritual movement.. It is an actual physical City in which we shall live for eternity..