Is Jesus's return imminent?

dcontroversal · Feb 3, 2018

Not to mention the following.....

a. He regularly makes the word thilipsis and orge men the same thing.
b. He takes the word of lost men hiding in caves over the ANNOUNCED wrath of GOD in heaven before the throne at the 7th trump

God even has an O.T. witness to the order of what takes place, uses the same verbiage as the N.T. (shout, ascension and victory)

Study the siege and fall of Jericho....it even leaves out the "7" thunders because they are not known....it represents 1st victory after coming out of the wilderness of SIN and into the promise land of REST....just a short breakdown of the numbers follows to a "T" the order of Revelation and the seals and trumpets with the culmination on the 7th day, a BLAST of the TRUMPET, ASCENSION, VICTORY <--SAME verbiage as 1st Thessalonians 4 and 1st Corinthians 15.

Joshua 6 <--and note MOSES (the LAW) could not deliver anyone, but took them up to the land of Promise, but it was Joshua (Savior) that delivered them into the land of Promise

The order

Joshua and men of war encompass Jericho 6 TIMES <-The first six seals
Joshua and men of war encompass city 7 times on 7th day with 7 priests blowing trumpets before the ark<---7th seal and 7 trumpets
On 7th time around the city ALL trumps sound as 1 (last trump) When the sound of the LONG blast of the last trump is heard, the people to SHOUT, ASCEND and VICTORY

The above order

6 days around city <-6 seals
7th day around city <-7th seal which initiates 7 trumps <--same as Revelation
Sound trump 7 times with last time a long blast as one TRUMP <--7 trumps including the 7th and final trump
A SHOUT, ASCENSION and VICTORY

NOTE the following

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord

Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.

but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.

Same order, same verbiage and it fits to a "t" and even leaves out the 7 thunders which are hidden and not revealed......

6 seals
7th seal initiates 7 trumpets
7th trumpet a shout, ascension and victory

NO ONE will ever change my mind that the resurrection/change takes place at the 7th trump. The bible does not teach an imminent return of Christ, but rather a post great tribulation/pre-wrath ingathering.....God's wrath is announced in HEAVEN before the throne at the sounding of the 7th trump and through and through there is evidence such as the above.........

Deade · Feb 3, 2018

Hello DaveWatchman, Your time frame is incorrect. You wrote: Jesus returned already. He told Mary not to touch Him because He had not yet ascended to the Father. Then a week latter He was asking Thomas to touch Him in order to feel His scars, so that Thomas would believe. Blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. It wasn't a week later.

Jesus was talking with Mary saying he had not ascended to His Father yet: John 20:16-18: “Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.”

Jesus Appears to the Disciples
John 20:19: “Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.”

Later that same day He appeared to His disciples and they could touch Him. So we can say for sure the ascension was on Sunday. We are given a picture of His ascension as the wave sheath day, when the first fruits were waved before God as a tribute. This was always done on the first Sunday after Passover. [look up wave sheath day for yourself] This still does not make Sunday the Sabbath.

Much of the rest of your post seemed accurate.

Lucy-Pevensie · Feb 3, 2018

dcontroversal said:

Not to mention the following.....

a. He regularly makes the word thilipsis and orge men the same thing.
b. He takes the word of lost men hiding in caves over the ANNOUNCED wrath of GOD in heaven before the throne at the 7th trump

God even has an O.T. witness to the order of what takes place, uses the same verbiage as the N.T. (shout, ascension and victory)

Study the siege and fall of Jericho....it even leaves out the "7" thunders because they are not known....it represents 1st victory after coming out of the wilderness of SIN and into the promise land of REST....just a short breakdown of the numbers follows to a "T" the order of Revelation and the seals and trumpets with the culmination on the 7th day, a BLAST of the TRUMPET, ASCENSION, VICTORY <--SAME verbiage as 1st Thessalonians 4 and 1st Corinthians 15.

Joshua 6 <--and note MOSES (the LAW) could not deliver anyone, but took them up to the land of Promise, but it was Joshua (Savior) that delivered them into the land of Promise

The order

Joshua and men of war encompass Jericho 6 TIMES <-The first six seals
Joshua and men of war encompass city 7 times on 7th day with 7 priests blowing trumpets before the ark<---7th seal and 7 trumpets
On 7th time around the city ALL trumps sound as 1 (last trump) When the sound of the LONG blast of the last trump is heard, the people to SHOUT, ASCEND and VICTORY

The above order

6 days around city <-6 seals
7th day around city <-7th seal which initiates 7 trumps <--same as Revelation
Sound trump 7 times with last time a long blast as one TRUMP <--7 trumps including the 7th and final trump
A SHOUT, ASCENSION and VICTORY

NOTE the following

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord

Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.

but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.

Same order, same verbiage and it fits to a "t" and even leaves out the 7 thunders which are hidden and not revealed......

6 seals
7th seal initiates 7 trumpets
7th trumpet a shout, ascension and victory

NO ONE will ever change my mind that the resurrection/change takes place at the 7th trump. The bible does not teach an imminent return of Christ, but rather a post great tribulation/pre-wrath ingathering.....God's wrath is announced in HEAVEN before the throne at the sounding of the 7th trump and through and through there is evidence such as the above.........

Thank you so much for posting all this.

May I add.....

Zech 9 (NIV)

14 Then the Lord will appear over them;
his arrow will flash like lightning.
The Sovereign Lord will sound the trumpet;
he will march in the storms of the south,
15 and the Lord Almighty will shield them.
They will destroy
and overcome with slingstones.
They will drink and roar as with wine;
they will be full like a bowl
used for sprinkling the corners of the altar.
16 The Lord their God will save his people on that day
as a shepherd saves his flock.

Lucy-Pevensie · Feb 3, 2018

dcontroversal said:

Related

The Tekiah Gedolah (The Great Blast) is known as 'The Last Trumpet’ because it is the final 'blast' of the one hundred 'blasts' that are blown on Rosh HaShanah.

[video=youtube;vJMv1XMIf_Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJMv1XMIf_Q[/video]

ComeLordJesus · Feb 3, 2018

Deade said:

Here is your scripture: 1Thess. 4:17: "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." You see, we meet in the air, then we are ever with the Lord; not ever in the air. We have other references where the Lord goes when He comes back.

You claim Jesus is coming for a secret rapture, and He will be coming into only the air. I see we are still disagreeing. If Jesus comes into the atmosphere, that is still "a coming." There is no secret rapture there are saints dying all during the tribulation.

When Christ comes back the very next time, He will encircle the earth while the asleep in Christ will rise and join Him. Then those that are alive will be changed into incorruptible spirits to join him. Jesus said that no man has ascended to heaven. John 3:13: “And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.”

Don't give me a reference to the transfiguration when Jesus appeared with Moses and Elijah. This is an example of a vision. But a vision is just a vision, we should not draw doctrine from them. A vision is an exception to what is literal. All the patriarchs in Hebrews 11 are still waiting to get to heaven. I remind you this was written after the cross. No, Hebrews 12 doesn't prove anyone in heaven. It is just a reference to Zion.

Everyone says that we will have glorified bodies, after our resurrection. I don't agree, we will be spirit. John said: John 4:24: “God is spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and truth.” and in 1 John 3:2: "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is." Sounds like we will be spirits too.

This is the very next event:
Luke 21:25-27: “And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. The sea and the waves roaring; and then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.”

Think about it.

What a diatribe! I never claimed a secret rapture and if you will notice I never said Jesus wouldn't return to the earth at all, only when he returns for His Church.

ComeLordJesus · Feb 3, 2018

MatthewG said:

Trumpet. There was a purpose for them in the old testament, and you can see what they were used for from that context.
There are two that I do know of one is a Trumpet signifying the coming of Someone, and Trumpet also can signify the start of a war.

You know a lot the Jewish people knew the Old Testament, the Apostles, Had the Old testament to study. Like Timothy,

2 Timothy 3:15 You have been taught the holy Scriptures from childhood, and they have given you the wisdom to receive the salvation that comes by trusting in Christ Jesus. 16 every Writing [is] God-breathed, and profitable for teaching, for conviction, for setting aright, for instruction that [is] in righteousness,

Timothy was someone who was taught the scriptures from Childhood, and they only had the old testament back then. So they learned many things by reading that book.

I didn't read a whole lot of the posts, but from no, the Lord Jesus Christ return is not happening any time soon, or forever.
I believe He came back once, and fulfilled what He said would happen, as far the destruction and death of Jersulam, ending the Age of Moses, and the Law, in which we live in a new age, The Age of Messiah (Which Jews believed will never end), and under the new covenant.

There wont be an end to this earth ever. Because there will never be a time when Jesus Christ comes back anymore, and this leaves the ability for many people to come to the knowledge of Him, from young to old, forever and ever and ever.

Makes me thankful to know and understand!

But you are most certainly entitled to your very own belief system you have in your own life.

Which you can read about the new, and old Cov. in Hebrews Chapter 8-10.

God bless you all.

MatthewG said:

So you think in 70AD he [came back]?

ComeLordJesus · Feb 3, 2018

DaveWatchman said:

Nothing has to happen.

Jesus' Return is imminent.

Nothing has to happen that we can see, or will see in the news. But we can't see everything. We can't see angels holding back the four winds of heaven while the 144,000 are being sealed.

Jesus returned already. He told Mary not to touch Him because He had not yet ascended to the Father. Then a week latter He was asking Thomas to touch Him in order to feel His scars, so that Thomas would believe. Blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

He came another time to knock Paul off his horse. But then He went back again. He can make as many Visitations as would be required, He might be making 144,000 Visitations right now, but heaven must receive Him until the time has come to restore all things.

I think that the days are shortened already on the front end. And that when it begins, it will be over before you know it. The pre tribbers won't be disappointed. The Abomination is happening right now, right before our eyes. It's standing too close for us to see, where it ought not to be and not everything is what they told us it would be.

The falling away culminated with the man of sin taking his seat in the Temple of God, the daily was taken away in Heaven's Temple, the Abomination was set up, the two witnesses were given their power and the composite beast opened it's mouth to blaspheme the name of God and those who dwell in Heaven. We are only awaiting the fire that he will cause to fall from heaven which will be the catalyst for his revealing at the sounding of the fifth trumpet.

Jesus talked about a "day when the Son of Man is revealed" in Luke 17. I think that day has become imminent, just like on the day that Lot left out from Sodom. In this case the "Son of Man is revealed through His Actions. They will speak louder than words. They will know that the Lord has spoken in His Zeal.

Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

And among the survivors shall be those whom the Lord calls.

Peaceful Sabbath.

Dave there are things we will see like the rebuilding of the Temple because there has to be on according to Daniel 9:27 and 2Thess 2:4.

Lafftur · Feb 3, 2018

Deade · Feb 3, 2018

ComeLordJesus said:

Where will Jesus go when He returns for His church? Right back down to earth.

Rev. 5:10: “And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.”

Rev. 20:6: “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

ComeLordJesus · Feb 3, 2018

dcontroversal said:

Not to mention the following.....

a. He regularly makes the word thilipsis and orge men the same thing.
b. He takes the word of lost men hiding in caves over the ANNOUNCED wrath of GOD in heaven before the throne at the 7th trump

God even has an O.T. witness to the order of what takes place, uses the same verbiage as the N.T. (shout, ascension and victory)

Study the siege and fall of Jericho....it even leaves out the "7" thunders because they are not known....it represents 1st victory after coming out of the wilderness of SIN and into the promise land of REST....just a short breakdown of the numbers follows to a "T" the order of Revelation and the seals and trumpets with the culmination on the 7th day, a BLAST of the TRUMPET, ASCENSION, VICTORY <--SAME verbiage as 1st Thessalonians 4 and 1st Corinthians 15.

Joshua 6 <--and note MOSES (the LAW) could not deliver anyone, but took them up to the land of Promise, but it was Joshua (Savior) that delivered them into the land of Promise

The order

Joshua and men of war encompass Jericho 6 TIMES <-The first six seals
Joshua and men of war encompass city 7 times on 7th day with 7 priests blowing trumpets before the ark<---7th seal and 7 trumpets
On 7th time around the city ALL trumps sound as 1 (last trump) When the sound of the LONG blast of the last trump is heard, the people to SHOUT, ASCEND and VICTORY

The above order

6 days around city <-6 seals
7th day around city <-7th seal which initiates 7 trumps <--same as Revelation
Sound trump 7 times with last time a long blast as one TRUMP <--7 trumps including the 7th and final trump
A SHOUT, ASCENSION and VICTORY

NOTE the following

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord

Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.

but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.

Same order, same verbiage and it fits to a "t" and even leaves out the 7 thunders which are hidden and not revealed......

6 seals
7th seal initiates 7 trumpets
7th trumpet a shout, ascension and victory

NO ONE will ever change my mind that the resurrection/change takes place at the 7th trump. The bible does not teach an imminent return of Christ, but rather a post great tribulation/pre-wrath ingathering.....God's wrath is announced in HEAVEN before the throne at the sounding of the 7th trump and through and through there is evidence such as the above.........

So, Jesus is going to wage war with the nations at Armageddon from heaven?

Deade · Feb 3, 2018

Your words: ComeLordJesus
Just a note to everyone. When the Lord returns for His Church he does not return to the earth, we go and meet Him in the sky.

Deade said:

dcontroversal · Feb 3, 2018

ComeLordJesus said:

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness

ComeLordJesus · Feb 3, 2018

dcontroversal said:

You're doing the same thing that people are doing with trumpets by trying to apply this to the Tribulation

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. Rev.19:14

So, where are they following Jesus to? Are they just gonna trot around in heaven on their horses?

dcontroversal · Feb 3, 2018

ComeLordJesus said:

Ummmmm not harldy....I have consistently stated that thilipsis and orge are two different words with two different applications....and he is speaking of the orge (fiery indignation of God) not the great tribulation (thilipsis)......

DaveWatchman · Feb 3, 2018

Deade said:

Greetings Deade, and thanks for keeping me honest.

The odd time i'm typing from memory. It was not a week latter, it was 8 days latter. Which back in those days they often used a method of time keeping called inclusive counting which meant that any part of a day or a week would be counted as a full day or a full week. Some might even call it two weeks. But i think that's a stretch.

"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

"Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.

"And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

This sounds to me like Jesus didn't want anyone to touch Him until he had ascended to the Farther. But after eight days there had been a change. I think He made the trip on the fist day right after speaking with Mary.

But after the eight days He is encouraging Thomas to touch and feel His wounds, so that Thomas would believe. This has to mean that Jesus did make a trip up to Heaven to meet with the Father, and then come back to deal with poor doubting Thomas.

Peaceful rest of the Sabbath.

DaveWatchman · Feb 3, 2018

ComeLordJesus said:

You must know that some people think that it was Jesus who confirmed the covenant with many by becoming the ultimate, once and for all sacrifice for sin by dying in the middle of the week.

And what can i say, CLJ, about 2Thess 2:4.

I think that happened in the summer of 2015.

Me and a couple guys saw it as it was happening.

It was a spooky time. It seems to give a lock fit on the 1290 days.

So i'm fairly sure of it, sorry.

It looks like Paul was drawing from Matthew 23.

Jesus said:

"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat"

"The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses"

They have "seated themselves".

Paul said:

"so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God

"so that he sets himself up in God's temple,

"So he will seat himself in the temple of God,

He will "seat himself".

Moses was the teacher of the Law, the Word of God. He was long gone when Jesus said this. The Scribes and Pharisees wern't really sitting in Moses' actual seat. So the Scribes and the Pharisees had really just taken over his job or his "seat", which was Moses' place of authority in the Temple of God.

So our end time man of sin isn't really sitting in a literal seat in a rebuilt temple. Our end time Antichrist has just attempted to take over God's job, His place of authority, by influencing the shift in morality and the trend in increased lawlessness. "Anti" can also mean "in place of".

God said: "Remember the Sabbath", "You shall not murder", "You shall not commit adultery" and "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination".

Antichrist says: You can forget about the Sabbath, legalize pornography, legalize abortion, legalize same sex marriage and have a sexual revolution.

When the Man of Sin seeks to change these specific times and these particular Laws, he by default, has magnified himself above all that is called God or is worshiped and has set himself up in God's "seat" of authority in God's Temple thereby claiming to BE God.

He does this though the composite beast to whom he gives his power and throne and great authority. Lucifer is the hand inside the glove.

I wouldn't be waiting for a rebuilt temple. Would that be a holy place? Red heifers and lambs without spot?

It's actually a spooky thing to think about.

ComeLordJesus · Feb 3, 2018

dcontroversal said:

How interesting that the word (orge) is mentioned in scripture in conjuncton with Jesus' return.

And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come. 1Thess.1:10

ComeLordJesus said:

Why did you ignore the above point I made, it corresponds with 1Thess.1:10

ComeLordJesus · Feb 3, 2018

DaveWatchman said:

It wasn't Jesus since he was already dead when the covenant was confirmed

DaveWatchman said:

Just you and a couple of guys out of the whole population of the earth, wow, how amazing.

DaveWatchman said:

Blah blah blah balh blah

Adstar · Feb 4, 2018

ComeLordJesus said:

This is not scriptural support that Jesus Christ will not come down to the Earth.. All this verse says is that when Jesus comes we shall be caught up to meet Him... It says nothing about what happenes or where we are going after.. But there is scripture declaring that Jesus will set foot on the mount of olives upon His return..

Zechariah 14: KJV
1 "Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. {2} For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. {3} Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. {4} ¶ And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

So here is scripture that declares that the LORD shall stand on the Mount of Olives on the Day of the LORD.. So He is coming down and will destroy the Army of the beast in the battle of Armageddon on that day..

Adstar · Feb 4, 2018

Nehemiah6 said:

So our eternal home the New Jerusalem you contend is not coming down to earth? So we are not going to be living on the new earth.. Then when Jesus said the Meek shall inherit the earth was he mistaken?
Matthew 5: KJV
{5} Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth."

So you believe this is impossible for God to do??? I don't

I believe God can do all things..

Is Jesus's return imminent?

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