Is keeping the Commandments and Laws of God Needed for Eternal Life?

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E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#781
#781
haz said:
Matt.7: 21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

What is His will that we obey?

John 6:40
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
Click to expand...

And we also have the following

John 14
[15] If ye love me, keep my commandments.
[21] He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 15
[10] If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.


So....what do we live by? Just PART of what God's word says, "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

OR......do we do as God's word tells us, ".....man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.", "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."


Which would include;

"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

AND....

"If ye love me, keep my commandments.", "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."?


So...which is it? Do we live by doing just SOME of what God gives us....or ALL of what God gives us?


Anything LESS that ALL is breaking God's laws.



.
 
H

haz

Guest
#782
#782
Eccl12and13 said:
And we also have the following

John 14
[15] If ye love me, keep my commandments.
[21] He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 15
[10] If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.


So....what do we live by? Just PART of what God's word says, "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

OR......do we do as God's word tells us, ".....man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.", "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."


Which would include;

"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

AND....

"If ye love me, keep my commandments.", "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."?


So...which is it? Do we live by doing just SOME of what God gives us....or ALL of what God gives us?


Anything LESS that ALL is breaking God's laws.
Click to expand...
Let's consider the thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord". Which part of what you put forward did he do?
We all know it's wasn't the 10 commandments.
Clearly it's grace alone (without works of the law/10 commandments). God's example through that thief on the cross confirms it.
 
H

haz

Guest
#783
#783
loveme1 said:
Are you saying that obedience to the 10 Commandments is iniquity?
Click to expand...
Hi loveme1,

No, I'm not saying that, unless the claim is that it has an impact on our salvation.

I'm saying that obedience/works of the law (10 commandments) is dead works of self-righteousness. It is rebellion against God as it is refusing to submit to His righteousness, Rom 10:3.

If a Christian's faith is counted for righteousness then obedience to the law cannot add to this, nor prove righteousness in our physical state.

And if we believe that obedience to the law is required as proof of salvation then that is unbelief in Jesus as it denies Christ's one offering which sanctified us.
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#784
#784
haz said:
Let's consider the thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord". Which part of what you put forward did he do?
We all know it's wasn't the 10 commandments.
Clearly it's grace alone (without works of the law/10 commandments). God's example through that thief on the cross confirms it.
Click to expand...
First of all....how do you know for a fact that other than being a thief he did not do his best as keeping the rest of God's laws?

Do you know what he stole and for what reason? Was it to feed his family? Does not God have provisions for stealing for which you may be forgiven?

Do you know ANY of the above for a fact?

But guess who did?


Now back to my question....

Do we live by just SOME of what God gave us in His word or by ALL of what He gave.

You gave the quote, "

John 6:40
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

But GOD also gave us the following;

John 14
[15] If ye love me, keep my commandments.
[21] He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 15
[10] If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.


So.....do we live by just the ONE verse that you gave.....or by ALL of what is in God's word.


.
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#785
#785
haz said:
Clearly it's grace alone (without works of the law/10 commandments). God's example through that thief on the cross confirms it.
Click to expand...

So now it's GRACE alone?

I thought it was FAITH alone!


Which is it? And NO...they are NOT one in the same!



.
 
L

loveme1

Senior Member
#786
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
63
#786
haz said:
Hi loveme1,

No, I'm not saying that, unless the claim is that it has an impact on our salvation.

I'm saying that obedience/works of the law (10 commandments) is dead works of self-righteousness. It is rebellion against God as it is refusing to submit to His righteousness, Rom 10:3.

If a Christian's faith is counted for righteousness then obedience to the law cannot add to this, nor prove righteousness in our physical state.

And if we believe that obedience to the law is required as proof of salvation then that is unbelief in Jesus as it denies Christ's one offering which sanctified us.
Click to expand...
Faith brings the obedience.

Yet, we can not even say to another Keep the Commandments... for it comes from within through Faith.

We can point people to Scripture and Witness to them, but obedience can not come from an outward source....

That we must keep in mind.

We can not circumcise the heart only point to Him that can and will.
 
H

haz

Guest
#787
#787
Eccl12and13 said:
First of all....how do you know for a fact that other than being a thief he did not do his best as keeping the rest of God's laws?

Do you know what he stole and for what reason? Was it to feed his family? Does not God have provisions for stealing for which you may be forgiven?

Do you know ANY of the above for a fact?

But guess who did?


Now back to my question....

Do we live by just SOME of what God gave us in His word or by ALL of what He gave.

You gave the quote, "

John 6:40
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

But GOD also gave us the following;

John 14
[15] If ye love me, keep my commandments.
[21] He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 15
[10] If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.


So.....do we live by just the ONE verse that you gave.....or by ALL of what is in God's word.
.
Click to expand...

The thief on the cross disagrees with you as he himself admitted he was deserving of his punishment.
In fact all have sinned and deserving of death.

The thief on the cross is God's example showing how it's grace alone.


Eccl12and13 said:
So now it's GRACE alone?

I thought it was FAITH alone!

Which is it? And NO...they are NOT one in the same!
Click to expand...
Rom 4:16
Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace,

Rom 5:2
through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Eph 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#788
#788
haz said:


The thief on the cross disagrees with you as he himself admitted he was deserving of his punishment.

Click to expand...



I am not denying that the man was a thief...but God's laws does not say a thief is to be put to death.



And back to my questions;


How do you know for a fact that other than being a thief he did not do his best as keeping the rest of God's laws?

Do you know what he stole and for what reason? Was it to feed his family? Does not God have provisions for stealing for which you may be forgiven?

Do you know ANY of the above for a fact?


And my other question;

And again.....is it GRACE alone....FAITH alone....or do we now need BOTH for salvation?

Now back to my question....

Do we live by just SOME of what God gave us in His word or by ALL of what He gave.

You gave the quote, "

John 6:40
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

But GOD also gave us the following;

John 14
[15] If ye love me, keep my commandments.
[21] He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 15
[10] If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.


So.....do we live by just the ONE verse that you gave.....or by ALL of what is in God's word.

.
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#789
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
58
0
#789
Ecc. said - First of all....how do you know for a fact that other than being a thief he did not do his best as keeping the rest of God's laws?
Do you know what he stole and for what reason? Was it to feed his family? Does not God have provisions for stealing for which you may be forgiven?
Do you know ANY of the above for a fact?

Is this a joke?
So he was a thief, but you say we can't prove he was a BAD thief!
So by interpolation you say he might have been a GOOD thief!
You say, (I don't know what you are saying), but you claim since it is not proven he was a BAD thief
then he might have been a good thief, ....which you think propels your whole argument.
Do you know what Ecc.? It does!
For your position that righteousness can be attained through the law is akin to a "good" thief.....
The 'good' thief of righteous works to save one's self verses the horrible, wretched bad thief of rapine , murderers.
Which one is saved Ecc., the 'good' thief or the 'bad'.
After all, one was on the left,-(the bad thief); and the other was on the right - (the 'good' thief).
There is something good in stealing,.......(if it is done right),.............RIGHT?!?
Apparently you say some can steal for their own 'righteousness' sake!
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#790
#790
Readers let's use some common sense for just a moment.....Did you know there are times when a person can break God's laws and still be blameless?


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E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#791
#791
Readers....which do you think God will have more compassion for.....


A thief that steals to feed his family.....

OR.....

A thief that steals just because he can get away with it?


OR........


Will God see them as the same?


Common sense!


.
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#792
#792
Readers....do we live by ALL of God's word....or just some of it?

Because the same God that said to believe and have faith in Him also said to keep His commandments.


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Eccl12and13

Guest
#793
#793
Readers...... do we need FAITH only.....GRACE only......OR.....BOTH?



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Eccl12and13

Guest
#794
#794
Why do those that oppose my post refuse to answer simple questions?


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RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#795
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
58
0
#795
Because your 'simple' questions contradict themselves.
You ask the question - 'do we need faith only, or grace only'.
Faith is by grace.
There is no faith without Grace.

Also you say - 'there are times when a person can break God's law's and still be blameless.'
Your claim is utter nonsense.
Then you say we need to not only have faith and grace(with you separate), but also keep His commandments - which you say a person can break and still be blameless.
Your argument is so fragmented and illogical, it would be rejected by any group of cogent thinking individuals.
Your silliness is spread before all who read it.
Don't you understand,....you can't make a claim unless you back it up logically?
You not only don't back up your claims, but you refute them with your next thought.
Arguing with you is a waste of time because you have no position.
You don't know what you believe,......because if you did you wouldn't contradict yourself.

"Readers" - Don't waste your time trying to figure out this man's nonsense.

 
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Eccl12and13

Guest
#796
#796
haz said:


The thief on the cross is God's example showing how it's grace alone.
Click to expand...

And now let's read what another poster said;


"There is no faith without Grace."



So now readers....we are getting somewhere. It is neither FAITH alone, nor GRACE alone! We need BOTH for salvation.

But does it stop there? Of course not. We also need to do the other things that God instructed....one of which is the following.....

John 14
[15] If ye love me, keep my commandments.
[21] He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 15
[10] If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.


So not only did we need the blood of Jesus, which is GRACE, to clear us from the death sentence we all were under...but we also need to have faith in the words that Jesus has given us. And along with that we are to keep God's laws.

Grace, Faith AND keeping God's laws are ALL needed for salvation. Not just ONE item...but ALL.

Just as God tells us;

".....man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.", "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."



.
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#797
#797
RickShafer said:
Because your 'simple' questions contradict themselves.

Also you say - 'there are times when a person can break God's law's and still be blameless.'
Your claim is utter nonsense.
Click to expand...



Then you are calling God's words nonsense.

Let's get back to logic and common sense....


Did not Jesus tell us it is ok to do GOOD on His sabbath? Getting a sheep out of a ditch is work. Work is not permitted on the Sabbath. But work that is GOOD is ok. The person is blameless for doing such.

For instance....

If my car broke down on Mon. but I wait until the sabbath to fix it that would be a sin.

But if my car broke on the sabbath....would it be wrong to fix it? Of course not.

Let's now read of the example God gave us....


Matt.12
[3] But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
[4] How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?

Was David to let him and his men starve? This was something that was out of their control....being chased by Saul throughout the kingdom. Let's read another...

[5] Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

Did you not know there are times when one can break God's laws and yet be blameless?

Did you miss reading this?


So again.....if you claim that it is total nonsense that one can break God's laws and yet be blameless...then you are saying that God's words are nonsense.


.

 
Mediate

Mediate

Banned
#798
Dec 14, 2009
1,400
2
0
#798
'Everyone, what do we need to get our little place in heaven'.

'What makes you think anything you do is good enough? I alone give it to you.'

GRACE.


'So then what is the point of life, why dont we just sin?'

'What does sin accomplish except fulfillment of your own wild desire?' - reason. Why to stop sinning

Dont do such things - HOW to stop sinning. LAW
So then, why are we even here?'

'For the realisation of what Im trying to tell you'

- Faith.

These three remain, faith hope and love. But the GREATEST of these is love'

Be it on earth as it is in heaven.
 
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