Is once saved always saved true? Or is it only giving false security?

[Rock022]

This is my first post,I recently found this forum,this morning.....I believe the question itself should be of little concern.

Some thoughts....since Christians are saved by grace through faith,how does one become un-saved?It would seem possible if someone who proclaimed to be a Christian,decided that he/she no longer believed that Jesus is God(in the flesh)and his teachings were not real,but only some sort of fictitious story.I would say that may be possible,but it is really just hypothetical question,which should at the bottom of any list of concerns.

This happens every day, christians fall away from the church. I have a cousin who believed in OSAS, and a born again christian for many years is now using drugs, carrying a concealed weapon and left the church. Being of majority Roman Catholic family he was always telling us how wrong we are and how deceived we have become by being Roman Catholic. This went on for over five years, he even bought a terrain where his congregation was going to built a community of Christ. Very devout christian. What happened? I do not know. He is completely opposite today.

How many "priest" leave the Catholic church? At the same time how many evangelist come to the catholic church and claim they finally see the beauty of God? Even Adam who walked with God, left at his own will. I do believe people who become saved can remain saved, but they can also choose to stop following.

 

[mark54]

In the flesh never in the Spiritof God forever, we move and have our being by the Holy Ghost the longer you stay there in the Spirit of God and if oine stays in the Spiritof God there is no more sin and it is not you that is keeping fromsin it is the Spirit of God the hidden man of the heart

I agree, if a person, without fail ceaselessly followed after the Spirit they would never sin. Yet as a minister on another website wrote:
'The reality of which escapes us all'.

 

[Bookends]

Regenerating, therefore renew your mind seek to see things from God the Father's vantage
Romans 12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

So now what does the above scripture mean? When I first learned this scripture I thought that I had to make myself Holy before God otherwise how can he accept me I am not Holy God is. So I wrestled for years with the meaning because I could not submit myself to God and because of free will and not submitting God couldn't at that time carry on the good work that he began in me, and I knew that truth was suppose toset me free and this was not happening I was not being set free I kept trying to do the as in trying to be a doer of it and just could'nt do it, maybe you are going the this experience or maybe you now have been set freeI do not but God does and if you are not God wants to. So I was in error over what truth I thought was truth over that one verse, until I submitted my body as is unhloy for God to do the clean up through the cross, I gave my all as in I give up trying to perform the law and I heard from God in my heart and the journey ever since has been fabulous, inspite of all the tragedies that have happened. I count all glory to God.

Brother, you act as if I didn't know the answer! Peace. May I ask you if you still see yourself as a sinner?

 

[homwardbound]

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/56294-war-principality-eternal-security.html

OSAS is true, but God will judge His House of Whom we have to do.

Hebrews 10:[SUP]29 [/SUP]Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? [SUP]30 [/SUP]For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. [SUP]31 [/SUP]It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Therefore let none of us that claim belief take advantage of such a great salvation where the sins and lawless acts are behind his back never to see again and sin no more not by our flesh efforts but by belief and stay living in the Holy Spirit constant and you won't sin, for all sin has been condemned to the flesh
Homwardbound

 

[mark54]

Homewardbound

From what you wrote, you may like Charles Spurgeons explanation of 1John 3:9

Again, observe, that the old nature of man, which remains inthe Christian is evil, and it cannot ever be anything else but evil, forwe are told in this chapter that "in me,"—that is, in myflesh—"there dwelleth no good thing." The old Adam-nature cannot beimproved; it cannot be made better; it is hopeless to attempt it. You may dowhat you please with it, you may educate it, you may instruct it, and thus youmay give it more instruments for rebellion, but you cannot make the rebel intothe friend, you cannot turn the darkness into light; it is an enemy to God, andan enemy to God it ever must be. On the contrary, the new life which God hasgiven us cannot sin. That is the meaning of a passage in John, where it issaid, "The child of God sinneth not; he cannot sin, because he is born ofGod." The old nature is evil only evil, and that continually, the newnature is wholly good; it knows nothing of sin, except to hate it. Its contactwith sin brings it pain and misery, and it cries out, "Woe is me that Idwell in Meshech, that I tabernacle in the tents of Kedar.

 

[Bookends]

This happens every day, christians fall away from the church. I have a cousin who believed in OSAS, and a born again christian for many years is now using drugs, carrying a concealed weapon and left the church. Being of majority Roman Catholic family he was always telling us how wrong we are and how deceived we have become by being Roman Catholic. This went on for over five years, he even bought a terrain where his congregation was going to built a community of Christ. Very devout christian. What happened? I do not know. He is completely opposite today.

How many "priest" leave the Catholic church? At the same time how many evangelist come to the catholic church and claim they finally see the beauty of God? Even Adam who walked with God, left at his own will. I do believe people who become saved can remain saved, but they can also choose to stop following.

There is a difference between a professing Christian and a professing and possessing Christian. Get the difference my friend?

 

[homwardbound]

ya ive spent some time making posts, and they failed.

try going to your general settings and reapply how you it all depends on your computer there three picks to use for posting and then hit save and retry I did and am now able to post

 

[endurance]

This happens every day, christians fall away from the church. I have a cousin who believed in OSAS, and a born again christian for many years is now using drugs, carrying a concealed weapon and left the church. Being of majority Roman Catholic family he was always telling us how wrong we are and how deceived we have become by being Roman Catholic. This went on for over five years, he even bought a terrain where his congregation was going to built a community of Christ. Very devout christian. What happened? I do not know. He is completely opposite today.

How many "priest" leave the Catholic church? At the same time how many evangelist come to the catholic church and claim they finally see the beauty of God? Even Adam who walked with God, left at his own will. I do believe people who become saved can remain saved, but they can also choose to stop following.

Ok,I will assume these persons were Christians,for the sake of discussion.Who said they aren't saved????Based on what Bible scripture?

Catholic priests are Christians?That is a whole different discussion.

Of course a Christian can choose to not to live a life as a Christian should(in reference to following)but he/she can also realize this was a mistake,and again turn to living a life of a Christian.

 

[homwardbound]

I agree, if a person, without fail ceaselessly followed after the Spirit they would never sin. Yet as a minister on another website wrote:
'The reality of which escapes us all'.

So start dying daily and continue until this takes place and you know it has without pride for as I said it is god that has taken you over as Father did on tne day Christ was water baptised by John and announced the Messiah has arrived and because of this and what he did for us through the cross we being born again have the same in us, but it takes trust in God the Father to do the performing through us as Father performed through Christ

 

[mark54]

So start dying daily and continue until this takes place and you know it has without pride for as I said it is god that has taken you over as Father did on tne day Christ was water baptised by John and announced the Messiah has arrived and because of this and what he did for us through the cross we being born again have the same in us, but it takes trust in God the Father to do the performing through us as Father performed through Christ

Do you believe some reach a state of sinless perfection in the flesh whilst on earth?

 

[Grandpa]

I do not mean to sound sarcastic or instigating. You say the bible says let God be true, and every man a liar. That sounds wrong to me because everything is about love, how can you love one another and all them liars? Using your own explanation I can say you lied! This attitude makes only for arguments instead of sharing in the Love of God.


Ahhhhhrg! Had to edit. It did not replied with the quote!

All these texts that PS quoted say the same thing. Scripture interprets Scripture. Yet so many refuse to believe the truth. The Bible says let God be true, and every man a liar. Those who refuse to believe will be rewarded accordingly. Those who push their agenda against Scripture will be rewarded accordingly. No personal comments needed.

I'm sure the Lord loved you even through your lies and deceit... Right?

Jeremiah 9:3-83 And they bend their tongues like their bow for lies: but they are not valiant for the truth upon the earth; for they proceed from evil to evil, and they know not me, saith the Lord.

4 Take ye heed every one of his neighbour, and trust ye not in any brother: for every brother will utterly supplant, and every neighbour will walk with slanders.

5 And they will deceive every one his neighbour, and will not speak the truth: they have taught their tongue to speak lies, and weary themselves to commit iniquity.

6 Thine habitation is in the midst of deceit; through deceit they refuse to know me, saith the Lord.

7 Therefore thus saith the Lord of hosts, Behold, I will melt them, and try them; for how shall I do for the daughter of my people?

8 Their tongue is as an arrow shot out; it speaketh deceit: one speaketh peaceably to his neighbour with his mouth, but in heart he layeth his wait.

Jeremiah 9:23-24

23 Thus saith the Lord, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches:

24 But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the Lord which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the Lord.


Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Yep.

 

[PS]

Ok,I will assume these persons were Christians,for the sake of discussion.Who said they aren't saved????Based on what Bible scripture?

Catholic priests are Christians?That is a whole different discussion.

Of course a Christian can choose to not to live a life as a Christian should(in reference to following)but he/she can also realize this was a mistake,and again turn to living a life of a Christian.

The Bible says believers can turn away. The Israelites were notorious for turning away from God. Please do not dispute the Bible in order to further your own theology, it is the theology that needs changing not the Bible.

 

[homwardbound]

Brother, you act as if I didn't know the answer! Peace. May I ask you if you still see yourself as a sinner?

Oh and brother I do not know what you know only ones Spirit knows and the Spirit of God between you and God
From God's vantage he took that all away, if I look from the flesh and revive it through thoughts of doubt yes So I choose to stay in the Spirit of God where I am protected, being a citizen of heaven My Father is the only one good as long as I or anyone remains in the Father they will not sin. This is a long process at least for me it has been, but I had to come to terms that I can do nothing without christ, giuving up all worldly things unto God

 

[Elin]

Is once saved always saved true? Or is it only giving false security?

Why is it so important to preach against once-saved? Because millions of souls are in hell because the church has not done it's job educating the body.

The problem is not the doctrine.

The problem is lack of Biblical knowledge regarding the doctrine.

The problem is the evangelicalism that is thousands of miles wide, but only a few inches deep.

 

[Rock022]

There is a difference between a professing Christian and a professing and possessing Christian. Get the difference my friend?

Can you explain this to me.

 

[homwardbound]

Do you believe some reach a state of sinless perfection in the flesh whilst on earth?

Yes being in the Spirit as a constant it takes wanting to know God personally and never giving up on that, Paul before knowing the truth that he so well put in scripture was missing for like 14 years before he was ready to bring the mystery of the Gospel to the world he had to be de-programmed and this is explained in Phillipianns 3
The sinless perfection is and never will be in the flesh it is in the Spirit of God only I am crucified never the less I live
Romans 6:6
knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
You see brother it is by belief (faith) in what Paul said here it is for you, and anyone that will take the time to know God, but one can only know God in the Spirit of God, and this is through unnatural belief. For it is unnatural for a person to see themselves dead in the flesh and yet there flesh is still alive here and now, this is supernatural beyond the physical

 

[Rock022]

Ok,I will assume these persons were Christians,for the sake of discussion.Who said they aren't saved????Based on what Bible scripture?

Catholic priests are Christians?That is a whole different discussion.

Of course a Christian can choose to not to live a life as a Christian should(in reference to following)but he/she can also realize this was a mistake,and again turn to living a life of a Christian.

I only use catholic situations because I do not believe bashing other denominations to make a statement. All denominations have flaws including mine.

 

[mark54]

Yes being in the Spirit as a constant it takes wanting to know God personally and never giving up on that, Paul before knowing the truth that he so well put in scripture was missing for like 14 years before he was ready to bring the mystery of the Gospel to the world he had to be de-programmed and this is explained in Phillipianns 3
The sinless perfection is and never will be in the flesh it is in the Spirit of God only I am crucified never the less I live
Romans 6:6
knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
You see brother it is by belief (faith) in what Paul said here it is for you, and anyone that will take the time to know God, but one can only know God in the Spirit of God, and this is through unnatural belief. For it is unnatural for a person to see themselves dead in the flesh and yet there flesh is still alive here and now, this is supernatural beyond the physical

I have never personally in the flesh met a Christian who has professed to be perfect in the flesh. Some have given the 'appearance' of it in church, but none have publically professed it, and I have spent many years in church

 

[Bookends]

Oh and brother I do not know what you know only ones Spirit knows and the Spirit of God between you and God
From God's vantage he took that all away, if I look from the flesh and revive it through thoughts of doubt yes So I choose to stay in the Spirit of God where I am protected, being a citizen of heaven My Father is the only one good as long as I or anyone remains in the Father they will not sin. This is a long process at least for me it has been, but I had to come to terms that I can do nothing without christ, giuving up all worldly things unto God

So your in the spirit 24/7 365 days a year, for the rest of your life? Even the apostle John didn't see himself in the Spirit all the time (debatable). I mean there is a difference between indwelling and infilling of the HS. Hey I'm happy for you, I pray you never have a set back, it may be devastating to you.

Did you give up all worldly things? really ALL?

 

[endurance]

The discussion is about "once saved,always saved".There isn't any question as to whether a Christian can turn away or not.and I agree that it is possible and does happen.

Pertaining to a"theology",if I have one,then it is was the Bible says,nothing else.I again ask the question,how can one become,un-saved"?Can anyone show a Bible quote/s that support this being possible?