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M
I agree that we need to concentrate on self examination, and we shouldn't argue, but there is nothing wrong with studying the scriptures and discussing it, as long as you are not argumentive. The difference between debating and arguing is with debating there are constant new thoughts and scriptures being exchanged to consider. But with arguing the thoughts and scriptures do not change each time they are exchanged- it is like ping ping or tennis balls going bak and forth- yes it is, no it isn't, yes it is, no it isn't, yes it is, no it isn't. There is no point in that. I don't get angry if someone disagrees with me, I am thankful that they considered my thoughts while I considered theirs. 
Now can we take one truth of scripture and weigh it against another in context of its intended truth...sure! But some things are clear and very evident and we should not move from those things for the sake of what some call "debate"...Ga 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
K
No there was not only 12 Apostles, that is a false teaching.....
There were 12 main Apostles that followed Jesus, but the bible speaks of more Apostles that was appointed.
For one Mathias was appointed an apostles to replace Judas, so there are your 12...Then Paul was named an apostle later making him an apostle. Then the bible speaks of others like, Junia, Andronicus, and Timothy that were apostles also.
Plus in Luke 10:1 it says that the Lord appointed 70 more......
There were 12 main Apostles that followed Jesus, but the bible speaks of more Apostles that was appointed.
For one Mathias was appointed an apostles to replace Judas, so there are your 12...Then Paul was named an apostle later making him an apostle. Then the bible speaks of others like, Junia, Andronicus, and Timothy that were apostles also.
Plus in Luke 10:1 it says that the Lord appointed 70 more......
Yes, but we cannot equate Junia, Andronicus, Silas, Barnabus, or Timothy in the same category of apostles as Paul and the 12. Paul and the twelve were those where were sent out by direct appointment from the Lord himself. The others one the other hand were those who were "sent out" - apostled - by the Church.
K
They were still apostles non the less, and the Lord told Peter he was given the keys to the kingdom and chosen to lead the church. In that Peter was given the right to carry on the appointing of others, and so was Paul. In 1 Timothy Paul shows then when he tells Timothy do not ordain/appoint just anybody.
Even Paul understood that each had his own work to do...
1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
1Co 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Co 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
Some here don't.
1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
1Co 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Co 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
Some here don't.
K
They were the main leaders, but were not the only apostles appointed.
I know you want there to be only the main 14, and yes I say 14 because Judas was named among the original 12. Then Matthias was appointed to take his place (13), and then Paul was appointed (14).
But the scriptures make it clear that there was well more apostles then that, and to not realize that is be blind to the truth.
I know you want there to be only the main 14, and yes I say 14 because Judas was named among the original 12. Then Matthias was appointed to take his place (13), and then Paul was appointed (14).
But the scriptures make it clear that there was well more apostles then that, and to not realize that is be blind to the truth.
T
The blind truth is that you are wrong about Timothy:
Timothy was not an Apostle. Paul exhorts him 2 Tim 4.5 to do the work of an Evangelist and to carry out that ministry call on his life.
2 Timothy 4.5
But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
Timothy was not an Apostle. Paul exhorts him 2 Tim 4.5 to do the work of an Evangelist and to carry out that ministry call on his life.
2 Timothy 4.5
But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
J
well, for all the hula hoops, there've been a few apostles on earth the last few hundred years, all of them asleep in the Lord now, all the ones i ever heard of / might or might not be.......
the world and the churches rejected them, every one...... (not all of the churches, but the wicked churches did- so much so that they aren't 'allowed' (God still reigns! and provides as He Will) media publicity today if any are still around.... the universal message "repent , turn to God, for His Kingdom is at hand" is not welcome by earthlings(fleshy, carnal, carbon bags) , except by the remnant.... )
the world and the churches rejected them, every one...... (not all of the churches, but the wicked churches did- so much so that they aren't 'allowed' (God still reigns! and provides as He Will) media publicity today if any are still around.... the universal message "repent , turn to God, for His Kingdom is at hand" is not welcome by earthlings(fleshy, carnal, carbon bags) , except by the remnant.... )
I could not care less what the number of the apostolic band is. All I am trying to point out is that there is a great deal of difference between one "sent out" by the Church and those who occupy the office of an apostle by divine appointment.
Judas is no longer an apostle. Peter says that Judas abandoned his office and that his office was given to another.
Yes, Mathias was appointed to take to place of Judas, not in addition to Judas. You also have to understand that Peter is not the one who appointed Matthias nor did he have the authority to appoint apostles. The Holy Spirit selected Matthias, not Peter. Peter never appointed anyone to the office of an apostle.
Judas is no longer an apostle. Peter says that Judas abandoned his office and that his office was given to another.
Yes, Mathias was appointed to take to place of Judas, not in addition to Judas. You also have to understand that Peter is not the one who appointed Matthias nor did he have the authority to appoint apostles. The Holy Spirit selected Matthias, not Peter. Peter never appointed anyone to the office of an apostle.
K
I do not refute the word, and I do not know where you get that from.
The bible shows that Timothy was an understudy or disciple of Paul, and commissioned by him to go out to others.
Then Paul gives him the same authority to be able to appoint others, as Paul tells him in 1 Timothy 5:22. But he tells Timothy be careful who he appoints, because if they come in and have a sinful nature, then he would be just as guilty for their sins for appointing them.
If you go and do an early church history study you will find out that he was given the title of an apostle.
