Is Paul speaking solely of his life as a Pharisee in Rom7:7-11

[Euphemia]

You are not ashamed of that post are you? The one that responded to me asking you if Paul was speaking as a christian or a Pharisee in rom 7:7-11

I just put it back up for you in the other thread. Dont be bashful, let your light shine!

I am not ashamed of anything. The light that shine through me is Jesus. So...what are you saying?

.

 

[Euphemia]

No he wasn't in need of reassurance. He was exercising prudence to not proclaim his gospel to non-leaders just in case he had something wrong. He had supreme confidence in what he proclaimed, but he knew himself well enough to not place 100% confidence in it until it was vetted by those whom he respected as being authorities.

Yes, that sense in Him was remarkable in its godly wisdom. However, he was sure, but being wise...a true, godly leader.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I do believe the greatest, most powerful message preached since Christ walked this earth was preached by paul

There's no question that we owe him an immense debt of gratitude. Thank GOD for raising up brother Paul.

 

[james57]

There's no question that we owe him an immense debt of gratitude. Thank GOD for raising up brother Paul.

Do you think Christ chose him because he had been the arch legalist? The most ardent of Pharisees?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Do you think Christ chose him because he had been the arch legalist? The most ardent of Pharisees?

I have no idea why. He did a good job.

 

[eternallife7]

Sure he was... after a point. The scripture is clear that he wasn't always 100% sure.

I always thought that in Romans 7 Paul is talking about how when we are saved, the sin that has pasted down from generations is still in our bodies and he is telling us what to expect and how to cope when we do thing we do not want to do. I just don't know why else he would say when he does things he doesn't want to do it is not him doing it but it is sin itself doing it. Also Romans 3:19-21 showed that Paul knew how to walk in the spirit and therefore sin had no power over him and yet he still had the delimma he writes about in Romans 7.

 

[james57]

I always thought that in Romans 7 Paul is talking about how when we are saved, the sin that has pasted down from generations is still in our bodies and he is telling us what to expect and how to cope when we do thing we do not want to do. I just don't know why else he would say when he does things he doesn't want to do it is not him doing it but it is sin itself doing it. Also Romans 3:19-21 showed that Paul knew how to walk in the spirit and therefore sin had no power over him and yet he still had the delimma he writes about in Romans 7.

In chapter seven the first six verses are about dying to a law of righteousness, the remainder of the chapter is a personal example from Paul's life as to what happened when as a Pharisee he lived under a law of righteousness

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

This is not my words but I agree with it 100%

"Grace and lawfulness are not at all at odds, but go hand in hand. When Paul says we are not under the law, but under grace, the intention of his words is clear. He is actually saying we are not under the condemnation of the Torah for our failure to keep it in the past, because the Yeshua paid for our sins with his blood.
That is quite different from telling us not to obey the law! Quite to the contrary, Paul plainly says we do not make void the Torah by our faith in the Jesus, but instead, we uphold the Torah (Romans 3:31)"

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

In chapter seven the first six verses are about dying to a law of righteousness, the remainder of the chapter is a personal example from Paul's life as to what happened when as a Pharisee he lived under a law of righteousness

If the remainder of the chapter only pertained to Paul's life as an unbelieving pharisee, he wouldn't have used the present tense from verse 14 onward.

 

[james57]

If the remainder of the chapter only pertained to Paul's life as an unbelieving pharisee, he wouldn't have used the present tense from verse 14 onward.

You cant let this go when i make a statement can you!

If by Paul speaking as it seems in the present tense he is speaking of the present time he must be speaking of his whole christian life. I am very grateful grandpa at least stated Paul DID NOT stay in the state described all of his christian life.
I think( may not quote this accurately) he thought I a person believed that they do not know the power of the spirit to change a life

 

[james57]

Studying will not in itself bring anyone to know the transforming power of the holy spirit in their life. Many have studied the bible and never experienced such transformation, hence they have a certain viewpoint of rom 7

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

This is not my words but I agree with it 100%

"Grace and lawfulness are not at all at odds, but go hand in hand. When Paul says we are not under the law, but under grace, the intention of his words is clear. He is actually saying we are not under the condemnation of the Torah for our failure to keep it in the past, because the Yeshua paid for our sins with his blood.
That is quite different from telling us not to obey the law! Quite to the contrary, Paul plainly says we do not make void the Torah by our faith in the Jesus, but instead, we uphold the Torah (Romans 3:31)"

Yet you say we are under condemnation for not keeping the law in the present. Condemnation is of the devil.

Now the sting of death [is] sin, and the power of sin [is] the law. 1 Corinthians 15:56

​Consequently, [there is] now no condemnation for those [who are] in Christ Jesus. Romans 8:1​

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You cant let this go when i make a statement can you!

If by Paul speaking as it seems in the present tense he is speaking of the present time he must be speaking of his whole christian life. I am very grateful grandpa at least stated Paul DID NOT stay in the state described all of his christian life.
I think( may not quote this accurately) he thought I a person believed that they do not know the power of the spirit to change a life

Paul's flesh did stay in the same state his whole Christian life. What Paul's spirit and mind fought against didn't change from the moment he believed until the moment he died. I think Grandpa would agree with that.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Yet you say we are under condemnation for not keeping the law in the present. Condemnation is of the devil.

Now the sting of death [is] sin, and the power of sin [is] the law. 1 Corinthians 15:56

​Consequently, [there is] now no condemnation for those [who are] in Christ Jesus. Romans 8:1​

I never said there is salvation in keeping the Torah, but just like with the Bible you are only reading what you want to read.

 

[james57]

Paul's flesh did stay in the same state his whole Christian life. What Paul's spirit and mind fought against didn't change from the moment he believed until the moment he died. I think Grandpa would agree with that.

Grandpa can correct me if i have misunderstood him, but he appeared to believe Paul DID NOT stay in the state he was in, in rom 7 all his life. I could produce reams of scripture if you like that show Paul believed that was an unacceptable stats for the christian to be in/ live their life

 

[james57]

Yet you say we are under condemnation for not keeping the law in the present. Condemnation is of the devil.

Now the sting of death [is] sin, and the power of sin [is] the law. 1 Corinthians 15:56

​Consequently, [there is] now no condemnation for those [who are] in Christ Jesus. Romans 8:1​

Gandalf has said he doesn't need to read Paul's letters to live as Christ taught, therefore he follows the written code, not the holy spirit( rom7:6)

 

[james57]

This is not my words but I agree with it 100%

"Grace and lawfulness are not at all at odds, but go hand in hand. When Paul says we are not under the law, but under grace, the intention of his words is clear. He is actually saying we are not under the condemnation of the Torah for our failure to keep it in the past, because the Yeshua paid for our sins with his blood.
That is quite different from telling us not to obey the law! Quite to the contrary, Paul plainly says we do not make void the Torah by our faith in the Jesus, but instead, we uphold the Torah (Romans 3:31)"

If you understood the context, Paul had spent the previous ten verses stressing the christian has a righteousness apart from the law. Obviously some of his readers would then think they could live as they liked. Paul corrects Tha impression in verse 31.
Paul believed obedience is following after the holy spirit, not the written code. The results of which are the fruit of the spirit. Against such things there is no law


2cor 3: 6-10, Rom7:4-6, rom 8:2-4, gal5:22&23

 

[james57]

Yet you say we are under condemnation for not keeping the law in the present. Condemnation is of the devil.

Now the sting of death [is] sin, and the power of sin [is] the law. 1 Corinthians 15:56

​Consequently, [there is] now no condemnation for those [who are] in Christ Jesus. Romans 8:1​

That is exactly what he I in truth saying. That is the problem with ignoring, or not seeking to understand what Paul wrote. In reality he believes in attaining heaven by a righteousness of observing selective law. Though he tried to convince he doesn't mean that

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Gandalf has said he doesn't need to read Paul's letters to live as Christ taught, therefore he follows the written code, not the holy spirit( rom7:6)

In that case, he follows Moses, not Christ.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

That is exactly what he I in truth saying. That is the problem with ignoring, or not seeking to understand what Paul wrote. In reality he believes in attaining heaven by a righteousness of observing selective law. Though he tried to convince he doesn't mean that

The law always carries condemnation with it. That's how we can know if what they say is of GOD or the devil. The devil can't stand it that he lost his power to condemn through the law, so he tries through his servants to bring others into condemnation by whatever deceitful means necessary. There is no condemnation in Christ, so any spirit of condemnation coming from men is antichrist trying to overcome our faith.