IS SMOKING A SIN WORTHY OF DISFELLOWSHIPMENT?

[Meggido]

Both bind the hands and souls of men under falsities and dogma not of God and in so doing make void the word.......IMO

oh I followed you bro...I was suggesting it is satanism by removing the "as bad as" from your comment

 

[BillG]

flesh:

the human nature with it's frailties both physical and morally and it's passions.

The nature of sin. Human. Help or not?

You any good at head massages

 

[JesusLives]

I am a Seventh Day Adventist just want to state that before making my statement.

I know that my Mother was disfellowshipped because she went to a movie and this terribly upset my Grandmother. I don't know if my Mom ever went back to church after that. I think a lot of churches were over zealous on many issues back in the day and maybe even today... Dancing, drinking, smoking and such.

My personal feeling about the matter is that the Church enter any denominational name you want here.... is suppose to be a hospital for sinners not a social club for saints....

In my church going experience I have also found myself in the Pastor's office speaking with him in my disagreement of cleaning up the books by taking people off of them who maybe hadn't attended in a while. I don't agree with that unless every effort has been made to encourage someone to return and then if they refuse and ask their name to be removed then it is o.k. to do so. I was fighting for a young man who I didn't believe had been visited or shown the kind of Christian love that was needed.

Each and everyone of us have an issue with some sort of sin enter your personal pet sin here....... So if you boot someone out for smoking then the church needs to be cleaned out and lock the doors because none of us need to go into such a perfect place as none of us are worthy to enter before God for any reason cause we are all sinners.

Sin is an addiction and we all like it - if we didn't we wouldn't keep doing it. Truth is we can't quit sinning unless we give ourselves 100% to God as He does for us what we can't do for ourselves. We confess our sins and He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

So this idea that we clean ourselves up before coming to church is ridiculous as it isn't going to happen. God accepts us just where we are but He loves us too much to leave us that way and it takes a life time of us submitting ourselves to Him and allowing His Holy Spirit to live in our hearts to clean us up. The process is called Sanctification. Justification is when we confess and accept Jesus as our Savior His righteousness covers us and God looks at us as though we had not sinned as He sees Jesus and not us.

So none of us will be able to say we have arrived until we arrive in heaven and this wicked earth is destroyed.

Until then I will wave across the isle to the rest of the sinners sitting in the church whether you smoke or not.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I'm afraid walking in the Spirit is more than that.

For example, Satan can act humble, be very moral, & give you the shirt off his back to impress you. He has a counterfeit for nearly everything God has & does.

Knowing that someone is walking in the Spirit can only be revealed by the Holy Spirit. Simple actions wont do.

It WILL do. For someone who walks in the Spirit and has matured, they can discern between good and evil. This is why I said earlier that if we walk in the Spirit, we are not without discernment. We can spot many things - hypocrisy, self-righteousness, motive/spirit, the backpedaling of saving face or reputation, and many other discernments. If He has given us the light to see these things in ourselves, we can then see them in others. And the result is not that we berate them or look down our nose at them or speak ungently. The result is that we love them and care for them because we were in that darkness of self-deceit too (and still find ourselves in it again sometimes).

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

There's waay more caffeine in a Dr Pepper than a cup of coffee, LOL!

My point was that in your post, you listed drinking coffee in with sins.

 

[dcontroversal]

It WILL do. For someone who walks in the Spirit and has matured, they can discern between good and evil. This is why I said earlier that if we walk in the Spirit, we are not without discernment. We can spot many things - hypocrisy, self-righteousness, motive/spirit, the backpedaling of saving face or reputation, and many other discernments. If He has given us the light to see these things in ourselves, we can then see them in others. And the result is not that we berate them or look down our nose at them or speak ungently. The result is that we love them and care for them because we were in that darkness of self-deceit too (and still find ourselves in it again sometimes).

I cannot help but remember Jesus saying that a "simple" cup of cold water in his name would not go unnoticed and or unrewarded by HIM........if you have done it unto the least of these his brethren you have done it unto him........

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

which is part of the gift of discerning of spirits....


Not for Stephen, but others....
Notice I said gift of discerning of spirits, not the gift of discernment....there is NO gift of discernment

I agree.
It is a gift that comes from walking in the Spirit. You could almost say....it is one of the gifts of maturity.

 

[dcontroversal]

I agree.
It is a gift that comes from walking in the Spirit. You could almost say....it is one of the gifts of maturity.

I jokingly call it a finely tuned radar HAHAH

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

as bad as!?!?!?

I had to give his statement some thought. Legalism IS very bad. It gets younger Christians entangled again in the farce of the outside of their cup. It prevents people from entering in because it's smoke and mirrors and a game of crafting yourself to look holy to men. I agree with him after giving it some thought.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Naw, I'm not upset at all. I'm sorry if I somehow made my post look like that.

I'm glad you brought that to my attention. I didn't explain that.

Any sinner (or saint) can come to God's house, as long as they behave themselves. Gossiping hurts the congregation, so it shouldn't be allowed, in the church or out.

Smokers, IMO, shouldn't be allowed to smoke on the church grounds. So, as long as they don't smoke on the premises, everything's fine.

Does that help?

Yes, it does help, thank you.
I believe that gossiping OFF the church grounds hurts the congregation also but at least you gave me your reasoning.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I just want to say one thing concerning Stephens posts. The sin that is actually behind gluttony and all the other actions of flesh is just lust.

I know it is very offensive to those who are out of control. Nevertheless...it's true.

Not pointing fingers..I know no one here. And I have my own demons to deal with just as we all do.

Yes, it is lust. But putting a knife to your throat at the table and trimming down does not deal with the root of the problem. The root of the problem is on the inside of our cup and it spills over to the outside. This is why berating people won't work.

It would be like if I went to my chiropractor all bent over and wincing everytime I moved and said I was in pain and needed help. If he looked at me and said: oh! I see what your problem is! Your walking all hunched over. Stand up and walk straight and you will be fine - do you think I would pay him? No. I would call him a quack and would refuse to pay him for his advice and would say: no, you don't understand - I'm walking this way BECAUSE I am in pain. Something is wrong INSIDE and it is causing me to walk this way!

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I don't get this flesh bit.
When Paul talks about it in Romans 7.

I have spent many many hours reading, researching from birth sides and I still don't get it.

Romans 7:17-20
17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

It really does my head in.

I've had a lot of wrestling with this verse too! Mainly when I was in my "got to be holy" stage of growth.
If I know something is not good but I do it anyway, but I don't WANT to do it or be that way, I am agreeing with God that it is not good. I wind up doing or saying what I so badly do NOT want to do or say. Something in me causes me to do what I DON'T want to do.

IF I don't know God or care what He has said, I don't have this struggle. I act like the world and am accepted as one of them.

Paul is saying, if I sincerely don't want to do it, but I do it, it is no longer me (I'm not in agreement) but it is sin in me that causes it.

 

[notmyown]

You're right. Deceit & deception I think is one of those ways that's worse.

for a second i wondered if you were calling dad a liar.

but yes, i agree. i was thinking of myself, in particular. in the past (which i truly hope is past) i have, er, torn someone a new one, i believe is what the kids are saying. i did it with nary a cuss word, and it was so much worse than using one the way dad did.

in his book "The Bruised Reed", Richard Sibbes wrote, there is more mercy in Christ than sin in us.
for which i am profoundly grateful.

 

[Stephen63]

I think scripture is pretty plain when it states that the only sin against your body (the temple) is sexual immorality.... there apparently is no other physical action relating to our bodies that is considered a "sin" against the body.

1 Corinthians 6

So drugs & hard liquor isn't? What about Marijuana brownies?

 

[Meggido]

So drugs & hard liquor isn't? What about Marijuana brownies?

Do the brownies have pecans or walnuts?, but firing up a joint?!?!?.....yeah not so much

PS Stephen, I am joking....

 

[Stephen63]

My point was that in your post, you listed drinking coffee in with sins.

Nooo..... I listed caffeine.

 

[Stephen63]

It WILL do. For someone who walks in the Spirit and has matured, they can discern between good and evil. This is why I said earlier that if we walk in the Spirit, we are not without discernment. We can spot many things - hypocrisy, self-righteousness, motive/spirit, the backpedaling of saving face or reputation, and many other discernments. If He has given us the light to see these things in ourselves, we can then see them in others. And the result is not that we berate them or look down our nose at them or speak ungently. The result is that we love them and care for them because we were in that darkness of self-deceit too (and still find ourselves in it again sometimes).

As long as people will believe that will do, they will be judging others wrongly, for some hypocrites are excellent at their acts.

Also, that won't work because people will see right through that by watching the people you run with.

 

[Demi777]

For me disfellowshipment is never an answer towards a person who struggles. All sin so all churches would have to be closed according to that ideology. I believe smoking is a sin. It destroys the temple of the holy spirit and usually ends in an addiction which comes before God at times.
People with struggles, no matter which, if lusts, gluttony or smoking need help and not condemnation
Imo

 

[stonesoffire]

You any good at head massages

Did I mess with your head that bad? lol

I'll add you to my list of grandchildren, along with Dcon and EG...I can massage anyones head. How hard is it? Pun intended.

 

[stonesoffire]

I've had a lot of wrestling with this verse too! Mainly when I was in my "got to be holy" stage of growth.
If I know something is not good but I do it anyway, but I don't WANT to do it or be that way, I am agreeing with God that it is not good. I wind up doing or saying what I so badly do NOT want to do or say. Something in me causes me to do what I DON'T want to do.

IF I don't know God or care what He has said, I don't have this struggle. I act like the world and am accepted as one of them.

Paul is saying, if I sincerely don't want to do it, but I do it, it is no longer me (I'm not in agreement) but it is sin in me that causes it.

What I did was to "starve my flesh". However, one can get tired of this kind of battle. So eventually I understood Pauls declaring "thank God through Jesus Christ". And began to declare who and what I am in Him. There's the power, and the rest.

I really think we all go through this and this is the labor to come to...rest.

Sin starts in the mind...and righteousness starts in the renewed mind.