Is the Gift of Tongues for everyone???
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C
I definitely don't condemn speaking in tongues. I have Penticostal friends that do, I have no problem with it.
Paul said that tongues shall cease "when that which is perfect shall come." Is that when Jesus comes, or when NT scripture came? I lean toward it being scripture. But God has nothing for sale, everything is a gift. So if God is giving the baptism in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues today, I want it. Either way I am saved by grace through faith, speaking in tongues has nothing to do with my salvation.
Paul said that tongues shall cease "when that which is perfect shall come." Is that when Jesus comes, or when NT scripture came? I lean toward it being scripture. But God has nothing for sale, everything is a gift. So if God is giving the baptism in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues today, I want it. Either way I am saved by grace through faith, speaking in tongues has nothing to do with my salvation.
K
Sorry dude for that I apologize.
Look I tryt to spend a few minutes every morning in prayer, at least 15 minutes and more if I can. But in five minute's I've done prayed, for my family and work and the president, the rest is in tongues.
I do the same in the evening, praying with my understanding is praying and asking God my will. Praying in tongues is praying by the Spirit and asking God His will.
Look I tryt to spend a few minutes every morning in prayer, at least 15 minutes and more if I can. But in five minute's I've done prayed, for my family and work and the president, the rest is in tongues.
I do the same in the evening, praying with my understanding is praying and asking God my will. Praying in tongues is praying by the Spirit and asking God His will.
2 Corinthians 11
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. [SUP]15 [/SUP]It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. [SUP]15 [/SUP]It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
No, they spoke coherent human languages that were miraculously understood or learned by divine gifting. What you guys do today is far from a miracle and faked by even children. You can't even tell the difference if someone is faking it or not. Miracles from God are undeniable, nature defying, and unexplainable. The modern "tongues" are a fabrication. I am not calling anything satanic, those were your words, not mine. I am calling it a fake at the very least. Beyond that, it is between those practicing it and God.
I do not like discussing this subject at all, because in my personal experience is it causes Charismatics to become bitter, angry, and to hurl false accusations of "You are blaspheming the Holy Spirit", at those of use who believe the Tongues were for the Apostles only to validate the new words from GOD to unbelieving Jews, which became our New Testament. And yes, then the Non-Charismatics argue back, with every one forgetting we Christians are commanded by God not to argue. I figure the issue of Tongues should be left in the same realm as the issue of "Are Christians supposed to keep the Sabbath":
Romans 14:5 (NIV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
So, I will post this just to validate why most non-Charismatics do not believe in the Modern Day usage of Tongues.
That being said, I will give you all from both sides of the fence, a serious question, and point out a potential very serious problem.
I think most Charismatics will even admit that Satan loves to imitate miracles from GOD.
2 Thessalonians 2:9 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
Now with that being a FACT, I want to ask this question, mainly as nothing more than food for thought.
HOW do you tell for SURE if the Tongues are from GOD, or mindless ecstatic utterances like they did in the Greek Mystery religions 300 years before Christ, or from Satan to curse Jesus in front of the whole congregation?
Don't tell me, because we have interpreter, because that was put to the test, and found to be flawed too. Dallas Theological Seminary students went to the largest Charismatic Church in Dallas, about 3 decades ago, after one of them memorized the 23rd Psalm in Hebrew. When members, one at a time started sharing their Tongues Gift, following each an Interpreter would stand give the supposed interpretation. When the Dallas Theological student stood and recited the 23rd Psalm in Hebrew, the interpreter again stood and gave a very biblical sounding interpretation, but NOT ONE WORD of it was from the 23rd Psalm.
Don't tell me that the true test is you can feel the Spirit moving, that congregation certainly felt the Spirit moving that day in Dallas, and I will give you an even more shocking validated example in my quote below. People seem to have forgotten that Satan is the great Deceiver, and manipulating human feeling, is one of his easiest deceptions.
I did a study 26 years ago on Tongues where I read everything I could on the subject of tongues, listened to tapes, and even conducted personal interviews. It took six month before I ever sat down and wrote a six page summery of what I had learned. Here is an excerpt from that written Study.
[qoute] I interviewed our Pastor, Neil Beery in 1988, who told me that he had personally seen on two occasions, years apart, people speaking in an “unknown tongue in a Church, thinking it was of God, when it was obviously Satan or a Demon. The first time was in the early 1950’s, when he and a Missionary from Africa, that was visiting Pastor Neil Beery’s Church in Ohio, were invited to have the Missionary speak at the evening Service of a local charismatic believing Church. After the Missionary had shared with them about what was happening on the mission field in Africa, a woman stood up to Praise the Lord in her “unknown tongue”, but without her even suspecting anything was wrong, she began cursing at the Missionary in the tongue of the African tribe he had been working with. The Missionary grew pale and ran out of the Church, and Pastor Beery went after him to see what was wrong. He found the Missionary literally vomiting by a tree. Only then did Pastor Beery learn that the Missionary understood every word that the woman was saying, and that it was so repulsive that it literally made the Missionary sick. The Missionary said, “I never thought I would ever hear something so vial and evil being spoken in a Church.” Later efforts to explain to the charismatic Pastor what had happened, only met with skepticism and doubt, because tongues were always translated their Church.
The Second time this happened to Pastor Beery was several years later after he had moved to Oregon to Pastor a Church there. This time Pastor Beery himself had been invited to speak at a charismatic believing Church and later on during the Sermon, a man whose family had been part of that Congregation barged into the Church and started yelling “Hypocrites, you are all a bunch of Hypocrites!” The reason for his action and anger was a couple weeks before, while that Forestry Service worker was up in the mountains on a job, his house burned down at night, killing his wife and children. Since the fire, not one of the charismatic Church’s members, including the Pastor of that Church, had been to see that man to offer condolences or help of any kind, not even a place to stay. (1 John 3:17 KJV, “But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?”) While the man was raving and still calling them “Hypocrites!”, the charismatic Pastor’s wife ran back to the man to pray for him in her “unknown tongues”. When she began to speak in her “tongues” gift, the man started yelling, “Lady stop! You do not know what you are saying! Lady stop!” The Forestry Service Worker then turned and ran out of the Church. It was obvious that the man understood exactly what the Pastor’s wife was saying in her “prayer language”, so Pastor Beery quickly closed the Service in Prayer, and went to find the Forestry Service Worker. It was a small town in Oregon, so it was easy to find him. After taking him to a local restaurant for supper, Pastor Beery asked, “You understood what she said back there didn’t you?” The man said she was actually cursing at him, using more vulgar words than he had ever heard even an unsaved co-worker use. She was cursing in the Yaquis Indian language, a small remote tribe that live in the mountains near Tucson, Az. The man had learned that language several years before, while working for the Forestry Service in their village for several months. When Pastor Beery tried to explain to the charismatic Pastor, exactly what his wife had said; he said, “I’ll NEVER believe that, because I could feel the Spirit moving when she was speaking in tongues.”[/quote]
I know those two examples were isolated incidents, but the point is, those two different congregations thought every Word of the Tongues was coming from God, so did the Interpreters, and so did the Pastors. The Apostles never had a problem like that because every time they spoke in Tongues, unbelieving Jews heard every word in their own native dialect.
I repeat the question, "How do you know for sure it is the genuine gift of Tongues, and not a counterfeit? ? ?"
Perhaps Paul did give us a solution:
1 Corinthians 14:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
Romans 14:5 (NIV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
So, I will post this just to validate why most non-Charismatics do not believe in the Modern Day usage of Tongues.
That being said, I will give you all from both sides of the fence, a serious question, and point out a potential very serious problem.
I think most Charismatics will even admit that Satan loves to imitate miracles from GOD.
2 Thessalonians 2:9 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
Now with that being a FACT, I want to ask this question, mainly as nothing more than food for thought.
HOW do you tell for SURE if the Tongues are from GOD, or mindless ecstatic utterances like they did in the Greek Mystery religions 300 years before Christ, or from Satan to curse Jesus in front of the whole congregation?
Don't tell me, because we have interpreter, because that was put to the test, and found to be flawed too. Dallas Theological Seminary students went to the largest Charismatic Church in Dallas, about 3 decades ago, after one of them memorized the 23rd Psalm in Hebrew. When members, one at a time started sharing their Tongues Gift, following each an Interpreter would stand give the supposed interpretation. When the Dallas Theological student stood and recited the 23rd Psalm in Hebrew, the interpreter again stood and gave a very biblical sounding interpretation, but NOT ONE WORD of it was from the 23rd Psalm.
Don't tell me that the true test is you can feel the Spirit moving, that congregation certainly felt the Spirit moving that day in Dallas, and I will give you an even more shocking validated example in my quote below. People seem to have forgotten that Satan is the great Deceiver, and manipulating human feeling, is one of his easiest deceptions.
I did a study 26 years ago on Tongues where I read everything I could on the subject of tongues, listened to tapes, and even conducted personal interviews. It took six month before I ever sat down and wrote a six page summery of what I had learned. Here is an excerpt from that written Study.
[qoute] I interviewed our Pastor, Neil Beery in 1988, who told me that he had personally seen on two occasions, years apart, people speaking in an “unknown tongue in a Church, thinking it was of God, when it was obviously Satan or a Demon. The first time was in the early 1950’s, when he and a Missionary from Africa, that was visiting Pastor Neil Beery’s Church in Ohio, were invited to have the Missionary speak at the evening Service of a local charismatic believing Church. After the Missionary had shared with them about what was happening on the mission field in Africa, a woman stood up to Praise the Lord in her “unknown tongue”, but without her even suspecting anything was wrong, she began cursing at the Missionary in the tongue of the African tribe he had been working with. The Missionary grew pale and ran out of the Church, and Pastor Beery went after him to see what was wrong. He found the Missionary literally vomiting by a tree. Only then did Pastor Beery learn that the Missionary understood every word that the woman was saying, and that it was so repulsive that it literally made the Missionary sick. The Missionary said, “I never thought I would ever hear something so vial and evil being spoken in a Church.” Later efforts to explain to the charismatic Pastor what had happened, only met with skepticism and doubt, because tongues were always translated their Church.
The Second time this happened to Pastor Beery was several years later after he had moved to Oregon to Pastor a Church there. This time Pastor Beery himself had been invited to speak at a charismatic believing Church and later on during the Sermon, a man whose family had been part of that Congregation barged into the Church and started yelling “Hypocrites, you are all a bunch of Hypocrites!” The reason for his action and anger was a couple weeks before, while that Forestry Service worker was up in the mountains on a job, his house burned down at night, killing his wife and children. Since the fire, not one of the charismatic Church’s members, including the Pastor of that Church, had been to see that man to offer condolences or help of any kind, not even a place to stay. (1 John 3:17 KJV, “But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?”) While the man was raving and still calling them “Hypocrites!”, the charismatic Pastor’s wife ran back to the man to pray for him in her “unknown tongues”. When she began to speak in her “tongues” gift, the man started yelling, “Lady stop! You do not know what you are saying! Lady stop!” The Forestry Service Worker then turned and ran out of the Church. It was obvious that the man understood exactly what the Pastor’s wife was saying in her “prayer language”, so Pastor Beery quickly closed the Service in Prayer, and went to find the Forestry Service Worker. It was a small town in Oregon, so it was easy to find him. After taking him to a local restaurant for supper, Pastor Beery asked, “You understood what she said back there didn’t you?” The man said she was actually cursing at him, using more vulgar words than he had ever heard even an unsaved co-worker use. She was cursing in the Yaquis Indian language, a small remote tribe that live in the mountains near Tucson, Az. The man had learned that language several years before, while working for the Forestry Service in their village for several months. When Pastor Beery tried to explain to the charismatic Pastor, exactly what his wife had said; he said, “I’ll NEVER believe that, because I could feel the Spirit moving when she was speaking in tongues.”[/quote]
I know those two examples were isolated incidents, but the point is, those two different congregations thought every Word of the Tongues was coming from God, so did the Interpreters, and so did the Pastors. The Apostles never had a problem like that because every time they spoke in Tongues, unbelieving Jews heard every word in their own native dialect.
I repeat the question, "How do you know for sure it is the genuine gift of Tongues, and not a counterfeit? ? ?"
Perhaps Paul did give us a solution:
1 Corinthians 14:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
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1 Corinthians 13:8 tongues ended. Deal with it.
Why did the new converts in Acts speak in tongues? The answer is....to evidence to the Jews that God was saving Gentiles. It was concrete evidence that the same Holy Spirit that was in the apostles and disciples was in the new Gentile converts. It was not some special power in the speaker but a sign for the Jews. This is exactly what was told to James and the others in Jerusalem when Paul gave his report of how God was working among the Gentiles.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Why did the new converts in Acts speak in tongues? The answer is....to evidence to the Jews that God was saving Gentiles. It was concrete evidence that the same Holy Spirit that was in the apostles and disciples was in the new Gentile converts. It was not some special power in the speaker but a sign for the Jews. This is exactly what was told to James and the others in Jerusalem when Paul gave his report of how God was working among the Gentiles.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Can you tell the difference in faked and real by placing this practice against scripture? No one has been able to answer this question. If you can't tell the difference and you base it entirely on subjective experience, it falls hard against the account of Pentecost in Acts 2. If someone faked "tongues" (easy to do), how would you know the difference? I bet I could walk into any Pentecostal or Charismatic church today and fake this "gift" and would be welcomed with open arms by the congregation, them never being the wiser about my lie. And anyone in that congregation that claims a gift of interpretation, would probably claim to interpret it with some religious sounding message. It does not stand up against the biblical account, nor is it possible to test it if it is based on feeling and emotion. It simply cannot stand up against biblical scrutiny. The only account of miraculous tongues in the bible is Acts 2 which is plain as the sun in the sky as being coherent human languages.
The Spirit groans in words that cannot be uttered does not support some unknown language. The letter to the Corinthians was a rebuke by Paul against their gross misuse of the gift of tongues. They may have had the real gift, but they were using it with no purpose. Or it could be they heard about Pentecost and were simply faking it like we see today. Therefore Paul tells them what they are doing is useless. Period.
It is not some unknown angelic language. When Paul speaks of "though I speak with tongues of angels, if I have not love", he is using hyperbole as an example that love trumps all things. If this passage was to be taken literally, then the very next passage should be taken literally, "Though I have faith enough to move mountains, if I have not love". Why are all the tongue speakers not out terraforming the earth with their minds? You can't rip the one out of context and deny the very next verse which is used to make the very same point.
The Spirit groans in words that cannot be uttered does not support some unknown language. The letter to the Corinthians was a rebuke by Paul against their gross misuse of the gift of tongues. They may have had the real gift, but they were using it with no purpose. Or it could be they heard about Pentecost and were simply faking it like we see today. Therefore Paul tells them what they are doing is useless. Period.
It is not some unknown angelic language. When Paul speaks of "though I speak with tongues of angels, if I have not love", he is using hyperbole as an example that love trumps all things. If this passage was to be taken literally, then the very next passage should be taken literally, "Though I have faith enough to move mountains, if I have not love". Why are all the tongue speakers not out terraforming the earth with their minds? You can't rip the one out of context and deny the very next verse which is used to make the very same point.
Do you remember the Word of Knowledge routine of Televangelist Peter Popoff from the early 1980's? His Word of Knowledge was proven to be a small ear FM receiver, with a hidden tiny microphone in his wife's collar as she secretly wondered through the audience talking to people. Well he has creeped back on TV again out here in Nevada and California and they are falling for him all over again. Peter Popoff - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So I would say, unfortunately the Word of Knowledge game did not vanish, and is fleecing the gullible all over again.
2 Corinthians 2:17 (NIV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, like men sent from God.
Ecclesiastes 1:9 (ESV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun.
So I would say, unfortunately the Word of Knowledge game did not vanish, and is fleecing the gullible all over again.
2 Corinthians 2:17 (NIV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, like men sent from God.
Ecclesiastes 1:9 (ESV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun.
No. The gift of tongues is not for everyone. It is only for those whom God chooses to give it to. (1 Cor 12:10) However the gift of the Holy Ghost is for everyone! (Acts 2:28-39) And it is accompanied by tongues! (Acts 2:1-4, Acts 10:44-46, Acts 19:1-6)
One more thing: Don't says that tongues is not real just because you have see an abundance of fakes and imitators. I don't see anybody throwing their paychecks in the trash because there is counterfeit money out there! The Holy Ghost is REAL. Speaking in tongues is REAL! Yes people can fake speaking in tongues, but they can't fake have the REAL Holy Ghost because the REAL Holy Ghost will change the way you live!
One more thing: Don't says that tongues is not real just because you have see an abundance of fakes and imitators. I don't see anybody throwing their paychecks in the trash because there is counterfeit money out there! The Holy Ghost is REAL. Speaking in tongues is REAL! Yes people can fake speaking in tongues, but they can't fake have the REAL Holy Ghost because the REAL Holy Ghost will change the way you live!